lonepigeon
Master Member
I can tell you from experience that LFL doesn't know much about their own props. I'd say it's likely that Icons was making their saber and LFL just said "yep, 6 grips just like the one downstairs in the display case."
Re-inventing Lukes ANH Lightsaber- And Vaders too??!?!
- Thread starter DARTH SABER
- Start date
Brevin Din-Shay
Sr Member
Wow, I just checked this thread out...seems to be the most insightful debate since the ESB MPP one!
I don't know exactly what to believe yet, but I'm curious about a few things. (Not trying to hijack!)
If there are 6 grips with a big gap, how many people are willing to go so far as to apply uneven grips to their Graflexes? I don't think I'll be re-doing mine just for the sake of accuracy. Usually, I'm all for things like this - for example, drilling the leftover holes in the Vader ROTJ - but this saber seems like it would be done an injustice to if the grips weren't aligned correctly, as a beauty prop...
If there are 7 grips evenly spaced (?), what clock positions would they be at? The same as Vader's? (Sorry if this was already addressed, I read this fast.)
The rest I'm still taking in. WOW!
David
I don't know exactly what to believe yet, but I'm curious about a few things. (Not trying to hijack!)
If there are 6 grips with a big gap, how many people are willing to go so far as to apply uneven grips to their Graflexes? I don't think I'll be re-doing mine just for the sake of accuracy. Usually, I'm all for things like this - for example, drilling the leftover holes in the Vader ROTJ - but this saber seems like it would be done an injustice to if the grips weren't aligned correctly, as a beauty prop...
If there are 7 grips evenly spaced (?), what clock positions would they be at? The same as Vader's? (Sorry if this was already addressed, I read this fast.)
The rest I'm still taking in. WOW!
David
E.D.C. Studios
Well-Known Member
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Brevin Din-Shay wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
If there are 7 grips evenly spaced (?), what clock positions would they be at? The same as Vader's? (Sorry if this was already addressed, I read this fast.)
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
You cant really use clock positions because a clock divide 360 degrees by 12 which six can go into...seven comes out to be an odd angle.
You can reference the renders I have in this thread to see how things are spaced out though.
I can tell you this for sure:
A gap between two of the grips lines up with the center of the control box (clamp)
The next grip over on either side, the far edge of the grip line up with the far inside edge of the clamp holes
The center (fins) on the next grips after those line up directly with the "R" and "E" on the graflex band
The last grip is centered opposite the control box
Brevin Din-Shay wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
If there are 7 grips evenly spaced (?), what clock positions would they be at? The same as Vader's? (Sorry if this was already addressed, I read this fast.)
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
You cant really use clock positions because a clock divide 360 degrees by 12 which six can go into...seven comes out to be an odd angle.
You can reference the renders I have in this thread to see how things are spaced out though.
I can tell you this for sure:
A gap between two of the grips lines up with the center of the control box (clamp)
The next grip over on either side, the far edge of the grip line up with the far inside edge of the clamp holes
The center (fins) on the next grips after those line up directly with the "R" and "E" on the graflex band
The last grip is centered opposite the control box
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
E.D.C. Studios wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
...seven comes out to be an odd angle.
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Yeah, every 103 minutes (aka every 1 hour and 43 minutes). Obviously you'll need a clock with the minute hand, which is pretty much all but the digital ones.
E.D.C. Studios wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
...seven comes out to be an odd angle.
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Yeah, every 103 minutes (aka every 1 hour and 43 minutes). Obviously you'll need a clock with the minute hand, which is pretty much all but the digital ones.
DARTH SABER
Master Member
The only connection Im trying to make with the "Big ass" gap scene (I think one grip fell off here) and the scene where Luke is sitting on the edge of the cargo hold (I think there are 6 evenly spaced grips) is that during the "Big ass" gap scene the grip fell off and the prop guys propbably said "the hell with it, we'll make it 6 grips" and decided to remove the rest of the grips and reattach them in the evened out 6 grip position with stronger glue.
Probe Droid
Master Member
Regarding the gap, go up to the top of this page and take a look at the rear end of my ANH.
Okay, see the big gap between the second and third grip on the right-hand side? That came from lying the unit on its side instead of placing it in come kind of stand, which is how I have it how. The weight of the flash could have caused the grip to drift a bit when the unit was lying on it's side. If so, it would appear that the unit originally had seven grips and that one fell off, when, in fact, there always were six and one kinda moved over a bit as the production went on. Maybe none of the prop guys noticed, and even if they did, figured no one else would and said **** it. No one went into this film thinking the were making anything other than a Saturday afternoon B movie.
Worth a thought.
Okay, see the big gap between the second and third grip on the right-hand side? That came from lying the unit on its side instead of placing it in come kind of stand, which is how I have it how. The weight of the flash could have caused the grip to drift a bit when the unit was lying on it's side. If so, it would appear that the unit originally had seven grips and that one fell off, when, in fact, there always were six and one kinda moved over a bit as the production went on. Maybe none of the prop guys noticed, and even if they did, figured no one else would and said **** it. No one went into this film thinking the were making anything other than a Saturday afternoon B movie.
Worth a thought.
DARTH SABER
Master Member
That could be the case,but we are assuming that the prop makers used the same kind of adhesive as Yodashouse...It seems to me if I were a prop maker making something for a movie I would use something like epoxy, something durable..Now mind you epoxied grips dont drift, but they do come completely off.
I tell you, with all these screen caps showing the saber at different grip placements throughout the film, there really will be no "definitive" ANH saber.
We simply will have to start referring to the Luke ANH saber not by the movie, but by THE FRAME NUMBER!
I can see the plaques being made now....
Luke Saber/ANH
7 Grip Version
ANH Film Frame Number 678-691
DC
We simply will have to start referring to the Luke ANH saber not by the movie, but by THE FRAME NUMBER!
I can see the plaques being made now....
Luke Saber/ANH
7 Grip Version
ANH Film Frame Number 678-691
DC
I have followed this whole thread, and I still see no definative proof that tehre are 7 grips, OR that there are just 6 grips. Both are possible, both have valid points, and both have images that can be used to prove either side. However, there is no way we will ever be able to know exactly how many there are. It really will come down to how many do you want to display on your saber... 6 or 7.
Myself, I will show 6. I have no solid reason to have otherwise.
Myself, I will show 6. I have no solid reason to have otherwise.
TReinman
Well-Known Member
Oooh, please give more thought to Probe Droid's comment. I've suffered from "Grip Drift" myself. And then it stands to reason that's partly why they rivetted them on for ESB.
Could we be looking at a 6 gripped saber laying on it's "bad" side where the grips drifted?
"Grip Drift", can I take something for that?
-- Tim
Could we be looking at a 6 gripped saber laying on it's "bad" side where the grips drifted?
"Grip Drift", can I take something for that?
-- Tim
So, all the pics that are shown with the control box on the right side are post production, right? I know the screen used was on the left side, so do we know for ABSOLUTELY sure the screen used had 7? I'm making mine as screen used, so the post production stuff means nothing to me, unless it's proven to be THE actual item used in the movie, and not something made for pics taken much later that may or may not fully match the screen used version. Anyone have any undisputable shots that prove the screen used version had 7?
lonepigeon
Master Member
The good saber pics posted are all the same saber. The Chronicles pic is post -production though (unless it's mid-production), the rest are pre-production (all show 7 grips). I really don't think they changed the grips part way through production. The angled lever has already been spotted in the Gaffi stick pic, I think that's the same saber.
These screen caps aren't proving anything to me. I know you're trying to prove a six grip version existed, but with a 7 grip now proven as fact- it'll take alot more than blurry MPG caps to prove a second 6 grip saber.
(DS- Yes, I know I need to watch it for myself - when I have time)
Akanah- "I have followed this whole thread, and I still see no definative proof that tehre are 7 grips"
I don't see how you can say that. The big giant pic of the saber with 7 grips is solid proof. Unless you mean the film version (which I think should be assumed 7 until proven 6), True we should assume nothing at this point, but it seems we're clinging to the 6 grip theory because it's what we've accepted until now.
All this talk trying to label the saber as only a promo version or post/pre-production isn't helping either. All the other props used in the promo pics are the final real props there is no reason to assume that this one is not.
The control box position difference is perfectly explainable. I believe EDC has already mentioned that it seems to be that the top of the Graflex is what got turned around (the D-ring and clamp stayed put).
These screen caps aren't proving anything to me. I know you're trying to prove a six grip version existed, but with a 7 grip now proven as fact- it'll take alot more than blurry MPG caps to prove a second 6 grip saber.
(DS- Yes, I know I need to watch it for myself - when I have time)
Akanah- "I have followed this whole thread, and I still see no definative proof that tehre are 7 grips"
I don't see how you can say that. The big giant pic of the saber with 7 grips is solid proof. Unless you mean the film version (which I think should be assumed 7 until proven 6), True we should assume nothing at this point, but it seems we're clinging to the 6 grip theory because it's what we've accepted until now.
All this talk trying to label the saber as only a promo version or post/pre-production isn't helping either. All the other props used in the promo pics are the final real props there is no reason to assume that this one is not.
The control box position difference is perfectly explainable. I believe EDC has already mentioned that it seems to be that the top of the Graflex is what got turned around (the D-ring and clamp stayed put).
I was just saying that the screen used version has the left side control box, instead of the right side like the Chronicles pics and other post prod. pics. I'd just rather do what was on screen, since it's shown that way in several scenes while Luke is wearing it.
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
lonepigeon wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
I don't see how you can say that. The big giant pic of the saber with 7 grips is solid proof. Unless you mean the film version (which I think should be assumed 7 until proven 6), True we should assume nothing at this point, but it seems we're clinging to the 6 grip theory because it's what we've accepted until now.
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
All I see are six uneven grips, which to me only means that some of the grips could have moved around over the course of the film, which would account for the varying gaps shown in some spots ont eh saber. When I say definative proof, for me, it is a picture of the saber with all 7 grips on it... where I can count all 7 grips at one time.
I spent 3 hours last night going over the ANH scenes where the saber was shown, and no matter how hard I tried, I could only ever see six grips. So for me, there is proof that there was 6 grips used on the screen version (which is what I base my ANH saber off of once I make it), not proof of 7 grips. Could there be 7 grips on the screen used version? Sure there could be. But I have not seen it.
So for me, there is no definative proof. Lots of speculation, and possibilities.. but no definative proof for me. I am not saying it isn't possible for there to be 7, but I jsut don't believe there is.
People say that the grips line up so the space is center to the clamp... do we know that the base is fully turned into the locked position? We know that even when the clamp is locked, the base can move.. and with the damage done to the clamp, it is possible it doesn't even lock correctly.
So I will make my saber a 6 grip saber. Because that is how many grips I see on the screen used verion.
lonepigeon wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
I don't see how you can say that. The big giant pic of the saber with 7 grips is solid proof. Unless you mean the film version (which I think should be assumed 7 until proven 6), True we should assume nothing at this point, but it seems we're clinging to the 6 grip theory because it's what we've accepted until now.
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
All I see are six uneven grips, which to me only means that some of the grips could have moved around over the course of the film, which would account for the varying gaps shown in some spots ont eh saber. When I say definative proof, for me, it is a picture of the saber with all 7 grips on it... where I can count all 7 grips at one time.
I spent 3 hours last night going over the ANH scenes where the saber was shown, and no matter how hard I tried, I could only ever see six grips. So for me, there is proof that there was 6 grips used on the screen version (which is what I base my ANH saber off of once I make it), not proof of 7 grips. Could there be 7 grips on the screen used version? Sure there could be. But I have not seen it.
So for me, there is no definative proof. Lots of speculation, and possibilities.. but no definative proof for me. I am not saying it isn't possible for there to be 7, but I jsut don't believe there is.
People say that the grips line up so the space is center to the clamp... do we know that the base is fully turned into the locked position? We know that even when the clamp is locked, the base can move.. and with the damage done to the clamp, it is possible it doesn't even lock correctly.
So I will make my saber a 6 grip saber. Because that is how many grips I see on the screen used verion.
DARTH SABER
Master Member
Man, I cant believe this.....We've all been suffering from tunnel vision so long on the grip matter.
It is very easy to tell whcich sabers have 6 grips and which ones have 7...The clue was so blatently under our nose..Just compare the ICONS with the screen used and the production version and you will see how much of a difference there is in the space between the grips.
Now that I look at six gripped and seven gripped sabers next to each other there is so much of a difference that I dont know how someone didnt see this years ago.
BTW whats the verdict on the D-ring???-1" or 1 1/16"
also the metal that wraps around the ring, how wide is that???
Someone said it was 3/4" but the one that comes with the frame hanging kit is 5/8"...
If it is 3/4", is there a manufacturer that makes them that siz?.
It is very easy to tell whcich sabers have 6 grips and which ones have 7...The clue was so blatently under our nose..Just compare the ICONS with the screen used and the production version and you will see how much of a difference there is in the space between the grips.
Now that I look at six gripped and seven gripped sabers next to each other there is so much of a difference that I dont know how someone didnt see this years ago.
BTW whats the verdict on the D-ring???-1" or 1 1/16"
also the metal that wraps around the ring, how wide is that???
Someone said it was 3/4" but the one that comes with the frame hanging kit is 5/8"...
If it is 3/4", is there a manufacturer that makes them that siz?.
It came from someone trying to use a clock to position their grips. 12 hours on a clock, 720 minutes in 12 hours, 720 divided by 7 = 103, so if you're trying to use a clock to position 7 grips, they'll be 103 minutes apart (1 hour, 43 minutes). That's how people did the 6 grips too (720 / 6 = 120 = 2 hours).
itbedave
New Member
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
tlrgsxr wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
It came from someone trying to use a clock to position their grips. 12 hours on a clock, 720 minutes in 12 hours, 720 divided by 7 = 103, so if you're trying to use a clock to position 7 grips, they'll be 103 minutes apart (1 hour, 43 minutes). That's how people did the 6 grips too (720 / 6 = 120 = 2 hours).
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Ummm.... isn't a clock divided into 60 minutes, not 720?
Mine is.
tlrgsxr wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
It came from someone trying to use a clock to position their grips. 12 hours on a clock, 720 minutes in 12 hours, 720 divided by 7 = 103, so if you're trying to use a clock to position 7 grips, they'll be 103 minutes apart (1 hour, 43 minutes). That's how people did the 6 grips too (720 / 6 = 120 = 2 hours).
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Ummm.... isn't a clock divided into 60 minutes, not 720?
Mine is.
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
itbedave wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Ummm.... isn't a clock divided into 60 minutes, not 720?
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Uhhh, I did do it the long way didn't I? Every 9 minutes then. Sorry, both are correct though.
itbedave wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Ummm.... isn't a clock divided into 60 minutes, not 720?
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Uhhh, I did do it the long way didn't I? Every 9 minutes then. Sorry, both are correct though.
What?
It's the position on the clock face.
It's retarded to spin around the clock a thousand times counting out 103 minutes for no reason.
If anything you'd say 60 divided by 7 is what you are trying to achieve.
Every 8.57 minutes you place a grip.
The clock thing is useful in establishing a starting point to in relation to the clamp.
You simply say the clamp is at 12 and the rest is at different times accordingly.
But using a protractor like Boba Debt is the easiest and most accurate.
Nick
It's the position on the clock face.
It's retarded to spin around the clock a thousand times counting out 103 minutes for no reason.
If anything you'd say 60 divided by 7 is what you are trying to achieve.
Every 8.57 minutes you place a grip.
The clock thing is useful in establishing a starting point to in relation to the clamp.
You simply say the clamp is at 12 and the rest is at different times accordingly.
But using a protractor like Boba Debt is the easiest and most accurate.
Nick
Similar threads
