Questions About Bond Films that You Have been Afraid to Ask SPOILERS
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Bigdaddy
Master Member
CR: Better than I expected,:thumbsup especially after how much I enjoyed OHMSS. I was a little skeptical of rebooting 007 but it worked very well IMO. The opening in BW was a nice touch, and the “certainly” is likely to stay in my top 5 Bond kill lines.:cool I thought the retro feel of the opening credits was also great and helped add the right classic feel to the reboot. The fights were really well done, hard and gritty the way a fight should be! DC did a great job portraying the part of a rash inexperienced agent. The foot chase was a bit over the top but really fun anyway (it is a Bond film after all 
). When he 1st pulled up to the hotel in a Ford I was thinking “this is the new Bond car??” :eek It was a relief to see him get into the real deal later.
The nut-cracker scene was not as bad as I was braced for, actually really funny (Bond is such a BAD***):cool, both actors played it very convincingly. His falling for Vesper seemed kind of sappy, but played into why he is so cold later in his career. Although, the crying in the shower damsel-in-distress doesn’t seem like the type Bond would keep around for more than one night.:confused I still think Diana Riggs (and Tracy) are way above Eva Green (and Vesper), just my opinion.
On that note, this is the 1st “modern” Bond film I’ve seen, (my most recent was AVTAK :confused) and I find it hard to make a fair comparison to the classics. The way films are shot now is so different it’s almost comparing apples to oranges. However rating them simply on enjoy-ability (is that a word?) this one is in the top 5 for me, :thumbsupand I’ll be surprised if any of the RM entries knock it down the list!:lol
). When he 1st pulled up to the hotel in a Ford I was thinking “this is the new Bond car??” :eek It was a relief to see him get into the real deal later. The nut-cracker scene was not as bad as I was braced for, actually really funny (Bond is such a BAD***):cool, both actors played it very convincingly. His falling for Vesper seemed kind of sappy, but played into why he is so cold later in his career. Although, the crying in the shower damsel-in-distress doesn’t seem like the type Bond would keep around for more than one night.:confused I still think Diana Riggs (and Tracy)
are way above Eva Green (and Vesper), just my opinion. On that note, this is the 1st “modern” Bond film I’ve seen, (my most recent was AVTAK :confused) and I find it hard to make a fair comparison to the classics. The way films are shot now is so different it’s almost comparing apples to oranges. However rating them simply on enjoy-ability (is that a word?) this one is in the top 5 for me, :thumbsupand I’ll be surprised if any of the RM entries knock it down the list!:lol
I'm with ya BD. I loved CR. It also has my favorite opening title sequence.
For sure. Hands down fantastic graphic sequence. :thumbsup
Completely! :thumbsup
I believe you mean "considerably".
Ya, I still roll my eyes at Bond driving a Ford Focus... :lol
Although, the crying in the shower damsel-in-distress doesn’t seem like the type Bond would keep around for more than one night.:confused I still think Diana Riggs (and Tracy)
I found it to be actually a convincing plot point to get Bond to care. The previous woman in this film dies and he doesn't care at all. Now he sees the effects of his lifestyle on someone he's begun to like and it brings out the humanity in him. The male instinct to "protect". It also is his biggest influence to resign. After Vesper we get the cold and detached Bond again. It's just a job. (actually we don't really get there until the end of QOS)
They are VERY different for sure and has you said, hard to compare. Both CR and Skyfall are top 5 entries for me. QOS was better that most people give it credit for I think but the editing was pretty bad.
RM and PB don't make it anywhere NEAR my top 5. :lol
Bigdaddy
Master Member
"considerably" ....of course :facepalm (it was my 1st watch!)
D
After re-watching I tend to agree with M's statement above, I'm used to Bond as cold and detached to a degree, but this how he becomes that way. My wife echoed your opinions without ever seeing this thread, so I have to agree!lol
Mon: QOS at her request!
2nd viewing of CR this time with my wife awake :lol: She loved it! This is the 1st time we finished a Bond movie and she was excited to discuss the characters and plot points!I believe you mean "considerably".
I found it to be actually a convincing plot point to get Bond to care. The previous woman in this film dies and he doesn't care at all. Now he sees the effects of his lifestyle on someone he's begun to like and it brings out the humanity in him. The male instinct to "protect". It also is his biggest influence to resign. After Vesper we get the cold and detached Bond again. It's just a job. (actually we don't really get there until the end of QOS)
D After re-watching I tend to agree with M's statement above, I'm used to Bond as cold and detached to a degree, but this how he becomes that way. My wife echoed your opinions without ever seeing this thread, so I have to agree!
lolMon: QOS at her request!
My wife echoed your opinions without ever seeing this thread, so I have to agree!
I must be right then! :lol
Not as good, but if you look at it as the completion of the CR story I do enjoy it. It's got more of a Jason Bourne flavour which a lot of people don't like.
Skyfall fixes all that though.
KojiroVance
Sr Member
The BD of OHMSS has been soaring in price recently, don't know why ... it dropped back to $9.99 today, and snagged it. Interesting how those great old DVDs suddenly don't look so great on a properly calibrated HDTV.
Been following the discussion the past few days on my tablet, had a few reactions....
One little exception, though, and I suspect that Barry (and director Peter Hunt) did this on purpose. Replay the shot when Tracy (actually a body double, Diana Rigg couldn't skate) skates up to a tired and hopeless Bond at the ice skating rink. Listen to the background incidental music when the camera pans up to her.opcorn
The song's a pastiche disgusting syrupy sweetness (even more so when you hear it on the soundtrack album), but that one shot may soften one's hatred for it.
Exactly. I think Barbara and Michael have finally grown up and realized that Bond films don't succeed just on formula and fluff. People want to see that man use his license to kill, or at least threaten to use it. And CR was made much better than other films. I'm impressed at how the camera is handheld sometimes, there's focus on things like Obanno's shoes marking the cement during his last moments of struggling, etc.
I think as Moore got older (he's actually a couple years older than Connery IIRC), it became more comical that young twentysomething women would swoon over them, so he had to seduce, and connive, and suave-o-delic the birds out of their pants. It got disgusting. "What can we do with a couple of hours in Rio, for someone who can't samba?"
[sidebar rant]
The way the Moore Bond would just start to undress a woman with a smirk and a slooooowlllly deeeeliverrrrred liiiiiine got so tiresome I gag. In fact, in this era of recognizing such a thing as date rape, some of the Moore Bond antics are, well, unchivalrous. And that's something I liked to think Bond was: a playboy, sure, forward and self-possessed, certainly, but going out of his way to connive a woman out of her panties? Never.
I was going to disagree with you, that the death of Obanno is very sick and in your face. Shoes frantically scraping the floor, breath wheezing through his neck as Bond strangulates him. (Thunderball's PTS is pretty rough, I'd forgotten that there's a "crunch" sound as Bond finally breaks Buvard's neck.) I'd call that "particularly graphic." It also reinforces Lynd's reaction later. If you watch the fight scene, she's barely a step ahead of the fight, and at the bottom of the stairs tries to help Bond, kicking away the gun or something. Man I love that fight scene, even the CGI is done really well. So when he finds her in shock in the shower, it makes sense. She's not just shaken to see him do this, she feels responsible ("It's like I can't get the blood off my hands"). Oh and that shower scene is a single take. I believe I heard that was the first take.
That's what makes kicking Locque's car off the cliff (even though it was already slipping off) so good. I wish they hadn't followed it with a "Bond Quip(TM)" though if you watch, Moore delivers it pretty sanguinely, not the tired old "haha, I just killed a guy, time to laugh it off and go get daiquiris...."
(There were a few women I had a thing for even before puberty set in. Barbarella in the original comic, Yvonne Craig (Batgirl), and Diana Rigg. :love )
I wouldn't say he doesn't care about what happens to Solange, but he was using her from the outset, to find out more about Dimitrios. He didn't invite her for a drink just to kill some time and have fun like Bond did with Jill Masterson in GOLDFINGER. I think he just keeps his feelings in check as he sees that in the time it took him to return to Nassau from Miami, they've found ... and tortured (or worse) ... and killed her, just send a message and "clean up." Another victim of some very cold, very ruthless people.
I think you could make an argument that instead of being cold and detached, he registers a memo-to-self that he should take a moment to try to protect the "innocents" that might fall into the meat grinder through carelessness.[1] But ... oh, oops ... he sort of fails all over again in QOS, and Fields dies a grisly, awful death.
[1] It's one of the few things I like about GOLDFINGER (novel), which I generally think is a forgettable embarrassment in the Fleming series. He continually tries to keep Tilly safe (she doesn't die off early in the story as she did in the movie), despite her best efforts to shove him and his chivalry away. Well, Fleming made her pretty stupid actually, so I think Fleming cared for her even less than Bond did.
Thanks for the posts of OHMSS pics. ... I used one for a "watch porn" pic for watchuseek.com this weekend. (I'm curious how many of the watch fans will see it. :love )
My votes for great lines (not necessarily kill tags):
"Book her, Superintendent. And be careful of her nails."
"Are you looking for shells?" "No ... I'm just looking."
"You won't be needing this,... 'old man.'" (I think he says this.)
"... I thought I'd wake up dead..."
"Skewered. One sympathizes."
Been following the discussion the past few days on my tablet, had a few reactions....
I truly think you're supposed to gag at the song. Remember, John Barry composed it. It's an "incidental" piece that's heard over loudspeakers and such when Bond gets to Switzerland. It's Christmas time, and the song reinforces this along with the scenery. I really think that Barry was writing a satire of schmaltzy holiday season music (though he interpolates the theme into the scene when Blofeld is introducing the "angels of death" to their "presents," clearly another little satire considering their pretty presents are instruments of cataclysm). It's even more ironic when Bond is trying to escape from the baddies ("I expect they're trying to kill me") and everyone around him is high on holiday fun and frolics.
One little exception, though, and I suspect that Barry (and director Peter Hunt) did this on purpose. Replay the shot when Tracy (actually a body double, Diana Rigg couldn't skate) skates up to a tired and hopeless Bond at the ice skating rink. Listen to the background incidental music when the camera pans up to her.
opcornThe song's a pastiche disgusting syrupy sweetness (even more so when you hear it on the soundtrack album), but that one shot may soften one's hatred for it.
Exactly. I think Barbara and Michael have finally grown up and realized that Bond films don't succeed just on formula and fluff. People want to see that man use his license to kill, or at least threaten to use it. And CR was made much better than other films. I'm impressed at how the camera is handheld sometimes, there's focus on things like Obanno's shoes marking the cement during his last moments of struggling, etc.
I think as Moore got older (he's actually a couple years older than Connery IIRC), it became more comical that young twentysomething women would swoon over them, so he had to seduce, and connive, and suave-o-delic the birds out of their pants. It got disgusting. "What can we do with a couple of hours in Rio, for someone who can't samba?"
[sidebar rant]
The way the Moore Bond would just start to undress a woman with a smirk and a slooooowlllly deeeeliverrrrred liiiiiine got so tiresome I gag. In fact, in this era of recognizing such a thing as date rape, some of the Moore Bond antics are, well, unchivalrous. And that's something I liked to think Bond was: a playboy, sure, forward and self-possessed, certainly, but going out of his way to connive a woman out of her panties? Never.
I was going to disagree with you, that the death of Obanno is very sick and in your face. Shoes frantically scraping the floor, breath wheezing through his neck as Bond strangulates him. (Thunderball's PTS is pretty rough, I'd forgotten that there's a "crunch" sound as Bond finally breaks Buvard's neck.) I'd call that "particularly graphic." It also reinforces Lynd's reaction later. If you watch the fight scene, she's barely a step ahead of the fight, and at the bottom of the stairs tries to help Bond, kicking away the gun or something. Man I love that fight scene, even the CGI is done really well. So when he finds her in shock in the shower, it makes sense. She's not just shaken to see him do this, she feels responsible ("It's like I can't get the blood off my hands"). Oh and that shower scene is a single take. I believe I heard that was the first take.
Indeed. In fact the film came under criticism for the violence, and the producers had to tone it down a wee bit (well, a very very wee bit, considering the Bond-Grant fight), essentially not having him kill in cold blood for a very long time.
That's what makes kicking Locque's car off the cliff (even though it was already slipping off) so good. I wish they hadn't followed it with a "Bond Quip(TM)" though if you watch, Moore delivers it pretty sanguinely, not the tired old "haha, I just killed a guy, time to laugh it off and go get daiquiris...."
Actually that honor belongs to Dr. No. Unless you consider "Three Blind Mice" the main title song. Eek, I hope not.
Yeah, Rigg already had quite the UK following from THE AVENGERS. But when she leans over the table in the casino ... sha-WING! :love I like that Lazenby's Bond isn't all oogly-googly (like Moore would do in his own sly way), but concentrating on *her*. He's already seen her in trouble once, and here she comes again, baiting some Lancelot to come to her rescue ... and he seriously considers not doing it again (I think).
(There were a few women I had a thing for even before puberty set in. Barbarella in the original comic, Yvonne Craig (Batgirl), and Diana Rigg. :love )
See above. I think Eva Green, and her character as written, are a little deeper and more complicated. When I watch it again, knowing what's coming (and there's a little treat if you watch the opening main titles carefully), you can see the dark clouds forming....... Although, the crying in the shower damsel-in-distress doesn’t seem like the type Bond would keep around for more than one night.:confused I still think Diana Riggs (and Tracy)
Ford Mondeo Mk IV, please.
I wouldn't say he doesn't care about what happens to Solange, but he was using her from the outset, to find out more about Dimitrios. He didn't invite her for a drink just to kill some time and have fun like Bond did with Jill Masterson in GOLDFINGER. I think he just keeps his feelings in check as he sees that in the time it took him to return to Nassau from Miami, they've found ... and tortured (or worse) ... and killed her, just send a message and "clean up." Another victim of some very cold, very ruthless people.
I think you could make an argument that instead of being cold and detached, he registers a memo-to-self that he should take a moment to try to protect the "innocents" that might fall into the meat grinder through carelessness.[1] But ... oh, oops ... he sort of fails all over again in QOS, and Fields dies a grisly, awful death.
[1] It's one of the few things I like about GOLDFINGER (novel), which I generally think is a forgettable embarrassment in the Fleming series. He continually tries to keep Tilly safe (she doesn't die off early in the story as she did in the movie), despite her best efforts to shove him and his chivalry away. Well, Fleming made her pretty stupid actually, so I think Fleming cared for her even less than Bond did.
Thanks for the posts of OHMSS pics. ... I used one for a "watch porn" pic for watchuseek.com this weekend. (I'm curious how many of the watch fans will see it. :love )
My votes for great lines (not necessarily kill tags):
"Book her, Superintendent. And be careful of her nails."
"Are you looking for shells?" "No ... I'm just looking."
"You won't be needing this,... 'old man.'" (I think he says this.)
"... I thought I'd wake up dead..."
"Skewered. One sympathizes."
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We were talking credit sequences, not main themes. So indeed "Three Blind Mice" is the song during the majority of the credit sequence in Dr. No.
My bad on the Ford. :lol
Oh, if we're just going for fun lines I like:
Dom - "What sharp little eyes you've got."
JB - "Wait 'till you get to my teeth"
and
POT - "My name's Plenty, Plenty O'Toole!"
JB - "Named after your father perhaps."
:lol
Dom - "What sharp little eyes you've got."
JB - "Wait 'till you get to my teeth"
and
POT - "My name's Plenty, Plenty O'Toole!"
JB - "Named after your father perhaps."
:lol
KojiroVance
Sr Member
Re: Re: Questions About Bond Films that You Have been Afraid to Ask SPOILERS
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I.... don't think so. Lets watch it again.We were talking credit sequences, not main themes. So indeed "Three Blind Mice" is the song during the majority of the credit sequence in Dr. No.
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Solo4114
Master Member
I truly think you're supposed to gag at the song. Remember, John Barry composed it. It's an "incidental" piece that's heard over loudspeakers and such when Bond gets to Switzerland. It's Christmas time, and the song reinforces this along with the scenery. I really think that Barry was writing a satire of schmaltzy holiday season music (though he interpolates the theme into the scene when Blofeld is introducing the "angels of death" to their "presents," clearly another little satire considering their pretty presents are instruments of cataclysm). It's even more ironic when Bond is trying to escape from the baddies ("I expect they're trying to kill me") and everyone around him is high on holiday fun and frolics.
One little exception, though, and I suspect that Barry (and director Peter Hunt) did this on purpose. Replay the shot when Tracy (actually a body double, Diana Rigg couldn't skate) skates up to a tired and hopeless Bond at the ice skating rink. Listen to the background incidental music when the camera pans up to her.
The song's a pastiche disgusting syrupy sweetness (even more so when you hear it on the soundtrack album), but that one shot may soften one's hatred for it.
Great insight there, and I heartily agree.
Let's hope so. I think that might be where they had a misstep with QOS, actually. In the search for a new formula, they went to a different franchise's formula and tried to out-Bourne the Bourne series. It didn't work, and to my way of thinking, really mars a movie which otherwise has some really good stuff in it. The franchise does this periodically. Hell, even Moonraker has some redeeming moments in it, which are ultimately undercut by some really awful gags, and doofy not-quite-Star-Wars commando raid at the end (as per usual...).
Maybe what they've realized is that the new formula is character, rather than rote repetition of "Bond Moments (R)".
First, it's been a bit since I watched CR, so I'd forgotten the shoes scraping on cement moment. But I should also clarify that my sense of "graphic" violence is violence which is both visceral and visual. Like, if you watched him gag, with his tongue protruding and his eyes popping out of his head (think Luca Brazi's death in The Godfather), THAT'S graphic -- to me. What you're getting here is the implication of graphic violence, without actually seeing all of it first hand. Or at least, that's my recollection of it.
You're also not getting a lot of gore. Bullet hits, for example, aren't blowing dirty great holes in people, there are no big sprays of blood, nobody's clutching their guts back in, etc. It's not Spartacus or Saving Pvt. Ryan, ya know? To me, THAT'S graphic. REALLY graphic. But it's the impact of the violence, even if you don't see blood 'n' guts, that really makes it hit home. And that's where, depending on the kid, I'd be a bit more wary about showing it to a younger kid.
I get that standards regarding violence back then were far more stringent than they are today, but to me this is one of the great failings of the series. The violence should be treated with respect and taken seriously, not turned into an excuse for a comic moment. For the most part, I think the newer films do a good job with that, particularly with Bond's attitude towards violence and how it veers between cold professionalism and revulsion. That's right out of the books, and it's something that I think really makes the films more approachable for modern audiences.
I.... don't think so. Lets watch it again.
Alright, so not the majority but it's there so it counts.
James Bond 007 - Dr. No opening credits (1962)[HD] - YouTube
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Apparently Monday was not soon enough for my wife! She came home from work yesterday and and suggested we drive 20 miles round trip to rent QOS :lol (I'm not about to argue with a movie obsession :love)
It's a good film (not as good as CR, but it's really a sequel) and completed the formation of Bond as the somewhat ruthless agent I was used to from SC era films.
I haven't seen the Bourne movies, so I can't compare, but as M said, the editing seemed sub-par and the fight scenes were a bit choppy and confusing, it had the feel of a generic action film at times. However Ann and I both enjoyed it alot. I couldn't decide if I liked the "ripped from the headlines" concept about the Bolivian water issues at 1st, (we both went into this without knowing the spoilers) but it worked out well as a plot point. It is refreshing to see something other than a nuke or a spaceship threatening the world :lol (I only got as far as OHMSS before jumping ahead to DC)
On a whole QOS is an fun exciting movie with more good moments than bad, although it has not made my top 5 list, I give it a :thumbsup :cool
It's a good film (not as good as CR, but it's really a sequel) and completed the formation of Bond as the somewhat ruthless agent I was used to from SC era films.
I haven't seen the Bourne movies, so I can't compare, but as M said, the editing seemed sub-par and the fight scenes were a bit choppy and confusing, it had the feel of a generic action film at times. However Ann and I both enjoyed it alot. I couldn't decide if I liked the "ripped from the headlines" concept about the Bolivian water issues at 1st, (we both went into this without knowing the spoilers) but it worked out well as a plot point. It is refreshing to see something other than a nuke or a spaceship threatening the world
:lol (I only got as far as OHMSS before jumping ahead to DC)On a whole QOS is an fun exciting movie with more good moments than bad, although it has not made my top 5 list, I give it a :thumbsup :cool
You're really gonna like Skyfall IMO.
Editing is great, cinematography is brilliant, and at the end we see a very familiar scene...
Editing is great, cinematography is brilliant, and at the end we see a very familiar scene...
Bigdaddy
Master Member
The trailer looks wicked cool! :cool I've been in this thread enough to know what happens to M, but my wife has no idea, and she love's JD in the role (as am I) so I'm going to keep the kleenex box close for herYou're really gonna like Skyfall IMO.
Editing is great, cinematography is brilliant, and at the end we see a very familiar scene...
because of work we'll probably see it thursday night. :thumbsup
The trailer looks wicked cool! :cool I've been in this thread enough to know what happens to M, but my wife has no idea, and she love's JD in the role (as am I) so I'm going to keep the kleenex box close for her
thumbsup:thumbsupLooking forward to your reactions!
He "links" with Fields.
But Bond girls don't necessarily need to sleep with Bond. It's just the term for leading ladies in a Bond film.
KojiroVance
Sr Member
Re: Re: Questions About Bond Films that You Have been Afraid to Ask SPOILERS
I still love thos dancers' silhouettes in bright colors, then segueing to the hitmen. Technicolor coolness.
Watched TLD again and it brought back memories of some really great touches....
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Not quite as bad as that (dont forget the knife in the hand on the bar, I think that was Brazi), but close imho. Watch again, I suspect you'll see what I mean.
Just quoting this because it's so true.
Alright, so not the majority but it's there so it counts.
I still love thos dancers' silhouettes in bright colors, then segueing to the hitmen. Technicolor coolness. Watched TLD again and it brought back memories of some really great touches....
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