Questions About Bond Films that You Have been Afraid to Ask SPOILERS

I finally got to watch YOLT :) I'm going to list the good stuff 1st :D
The fight scene with the driver was cool, but as a judoka I'm partial to seeing practical judo being used instead of the pretty "dynamic" stuff ;). Ninjas in a volcano :thumbsup :D The volcano hideout and mono-rail were great, felt like Syndrome's house! :lol. The best part of the movie was definitely seeing Dr Ev...er I mean Blofeld :lol :cool

The not-so-good stuff:
I don't want to have a bash on poor JB, :cool and most all of my criticisms would be very apparent to the casual viewer so i'll spare the rant and only mention the shoes. WTH??? Those white and black spectators with the zipper? That was the least believable part, Bond is way to cool to wear those!:lol Not to mention they made his feet look like they were glowing in the dark during the outdoor scenes :) Don't get me wrong, I love spectators, but only in an Irish brogue punch design and with laces...of course! ;)
Thats as close I'll get to trashing an SC movie :lol
Tomorrow is OHMSS if I don't get over-ruled :)
OT: My wife walked in as I was finishing this post and asked if I was trolling :lol:behave

Glad you liked it! I'm actually surprised you didn't mention the least convincing disguise ever... Connery as a Japanese man! :lol
 
What???
Your comment on YOLT just like that? Ohh, you're just playing nice....
OHMSS is best viewed during X'mas time.
La..la..la..la..la...la....la....... (you'll know the tune when you hear it > spoiler alert?)

M,
Thank you for the info.
I look at it this way:
seems the effort to bring back Bond closer to original Ian Fleming's character has been failed, until DC. So it took a reboot to bring the "real" Bond back.
I guess the world was not ready yet in GL and TD's time.

Well, Bond is not supposed to be family-friendly in the first place :rolleyes.
But again, how many of us that watch the first Bond at early age? I know I did :love. That's maybe the reason why RM had his fans (in a way). Fathers felt "safe" to share the moment with their kids. Kids had the opportunity to taste the "Satan's apple" :lol.
My kids are still very young, so I don't have to show them DC's Bond (yet).

Oh no, now I have to watch the incredibles again!!!!
 
What???
Your comment on YOLT just like that? Ohh, you're just playing nice....

:lol I like the movie well enough despite it's HUGE flaws.

OHMSS is best viewed during X'mas time.
La..la..la..la..la...la....la....... (you'll know the tune when you hear it > spoiler alert?)

HATE that song! :lol My dad used to play it in the car on road trips just to bug me.

M,
Thank you for the info.
I look at it this way:
seems the effort to bring back Bond closer to original Ian Fleming's character has been failed, until DC. So it took a reboot to bring the "real" Bond back.
I guess the world was not ready yet in GL and TD's time.

For what it was at the time SC's Bond was very Flemming. If Dr. No had been released in 1989 It very well could have been as violent as LTK. It was 15 years of Moore that "softened" the audience.

Well, Bond is not supposed to be family-friendly in the first place :rolleyes.

Actually untrue. Moore was famous for not wanting to be too violent because "what about the kids?". LTK took the violence up about 10 notches. I knew Bond before I knew Santa but I still wasn't allowed to see LTK until I was older. :)
 
What???
Your comment on YOLT just like that?

My kids are still very young, so I don't have to show them DC's Bond (yet).

Oh no, now I have to watch the incredibles again!!!!

:lol well, I said most of the nice things I could! It's a fun watch, I'm glad I had seen alot of Bond "spoofs", it made it easy to chuckle at some "serious" moments ;) The opening sequence in space was pretty neat for about 3 seconds :rolleyes, I'll definitely be re-watching it just for kicks and laughs :cool but I'm really looking forward to OHMSS and getting back to some serious 007 (please tell me this is the one with the UJ parachute! :love)
I told my daughter we are going to jump ahead in the films ("skip a bit brother" ;) ) and I was going to pick-up CR this week. She gets this big smile, walks over to my DVDs and pulls it off the shelf still wrapped up!:lol:lol I bought it over a month ago and forgot because I was "saving" it!:cool
After reading the back, my wife and I will test screen it 1st to make sure it's OK :)...(you know, wholesome 1960s stuff like casual sex before slapping the girl around for info :lol:lol:lol ) yeah $5, 2 disc widescreen, not bad :love
questions-about-bond-films-you-have-been-snapshot_20130225.jpg-145809d1361809485

I watch the Incredibles 2 or 3 times a year, looks like I'll be taking it out for referencing! :)
 
(please tell me this is the one with the UJ parachute! :love)

Nope, that's TSWLM. You're four films away. ;)

I told my daughter we are going to jump ahead in the films ("skip a bit brother" ;) ) and I was going to pick-up CR this week. She gets this big smile, walks over to my DVDs and pulls it off the shelf still wrapped up!:lol:lol I bought it over a month ago and forgot because I was "saving" it!:cool
After reading the back, my wife and I will test screen it 1st to make sure it's OK :)...(you know, wholesome 1960s stuff like casual sex before slapping the girl around for info :lol:lol:lol ) yeah $5, 2 disc widescreen, not bad :love

Everyone has different ideas of what they let their kids watch but my 6 year old has seen it. It's not too bad. :)
 
M,
Bond supposed to be classified as adult, er... mature material, considering the violence, and female encounters, Moore or not.
I used to watch chinese Kungfu movies from when I was very little, so fighting JB-style is almost nothing for me.

I watched Bond and see the gadgets, actions and the scenery, but somewhat my brain disregard the scene with women.
SW ROTJ with Slave Leia actually opened my eyes.....:lol.

Now I have two daughters, I probably will keep her away from JB until they're 21 .
Again, I can't imagine if the kids these days exposed to DC JB, as we did exposed to RM (or SC) at our early stage.

You planted two songs into my head, now you are telling me you hated one....argh.

Bigdaddy,
I don't know how to skip those, probably you will skip 2/3 of the movies :rolleyes. Also during the nutcracker thing, and the recovery. I know I can't give any answer if my daughters asked about what happened.
$5 is a very good deal.

Looking forward to hear your comment on OHMSS. There is something about GL that I couldn't put a finger on (nothing bad, it's just something). It is a good movie, but strangely only Bond enthusiasts enjoying more IMO.
 
Bigdaddy,
I don't know how to skip those, probably you will skip 2/3 of the movies :rolleyes. Also during the nutcracker thing, and the recovery. I know I can't give any answer if my daughters asked about what happened.
$5 is a very good deal.

Looking forward to hear your comment on OHMSS. There is something about GL that I couldn't put a finger on (nothing bad, it's just something). It is a good movie, but strangely only Bond enthusiasts enjoying more IMO.
I'm not going to skip them permanently, ;) they are all in my Netflix "Q" :)lol) My original intention was to re-watch all the films in order, but I'm very anxious to see the new Bond.:thumbsup The last time I watched a RM film was AVTAK in the theater, although my 1st Bond was GL at a Bond film-fest at age 4 (1976) :) , RM is the Bond I went to see in theaters thoughout my early years. I've recently seen a few things from my childhood that didn't hold-up :cry, so I'm a little apprehensive to revist RM, he seemed so cool!:cool
Also, I've never seen TD or PB in Bond roles. When PB didn't get it after Moore I was so :angry I kind of gave up on Bond for a long time. It was the "buzz" around CR that got interested in the franchise again, but it was seeing SC in Dr. No, then FRWL and GF that sucked me back in :) and seeing the trailer for Skyfall got me pumped to see DC in the role, he looks BAD***!:cool
So far I'd say FRWL is my favorite, but I have 19 more films to go! :D:thumbsup
 
My opinion, Sean Connery is the best James Bond actor. Daniel Craig is a great James Bond, he benefits from how much more well made his movies are.

I like a few of the movies with Roger Moore, but I cant buy him as Bond. He doesnt look like he can beat anyone up, or the kind of guy women swoon over.

Pierce Brosnan looks like he could get the girl, but he doesn't seem tough enough. He is too pretty. (I love him in The Matador though, lol.)

I would like to have seen more of George Lazenby in the role. I think he could have really been great with a few more movies. Timothy Dalton would be a great villain in a James Bond movie.
 
M,
Bond supposed to be classified as adult, er... mature material, considering the violence, and female encounters, Moore or not.

Ever read any fairy tales when you were a kid? Hansel & Grettle were abandoned by their parents and then fattened so that they could be eaten until they burned a witch alive. The three little pigs, in every version I read as a kid the first two pigs are eaten. In little red riding hood Grandma is eaten and killed. The boy who cried wolf? Eaten when the wolf finally arrives. Hell, even in modern times Lion King was brutal in how Simba watched his father die and we saw a stark silhouette at the end of Tarzan of a man being hanged...

This doesn't traumatize kids because kids are able to distinguish between reality and fiction much better than most think. It's up to each parent to decide if their kids are ready for any given material but James Bond has been a father/son experience for 50 years. My grandmother took my father to see the Connery films when they first came out. The violence, right up until LTK, was always scaled back to a level that parents wouldn't feel like jerks for letting their kids watch it. Very little blood for instance. As for the sexuality it's always either implied or under the sheets. 99% of what we see is the little bit before and then the laying in bed afterwards. You'll notice too that people don't swear in Bond films. They're intended as family entertainment on the slightly mature end. Then in LTK we see a man explode from pressure, a person ground in a cocaine grinder, a person eaten by a shark and then left to die... A stark difference from what came before.

I used to watch chinese Kungfu movies from when I was very little, so fighting JB-style is almost nothing for me.

It's almost nothing to anyone, and is intended that way. ;)

SW ROTJ with Slave Leia actually opened my eyes.....:lol.

For many of us!!! :lol

Now I have two daughters, I probably will keep her away from JB until they're 21 .
Again, I can't imagine if the kids these days exposed to DC JB, as we did exposed to RM (or SC) at our early stage.

Again, we should give kids more credit than we do. What's so objectionable about CR? When I was a kid and saw "sex" scenes I didn't even think about what was going on under the sheets, it was two people kissing. That's all we ever actually see in CR. The one scene that I can see is the "nutcracker". I skipped that. That's what, 2 mins?

You planted two songs into my head, now you are telling me you hated one....argh.

:lol I warned you that when I first told you!

Bigdaddy,
I don't know how to skip those, probably you will skip 2/3 of the movies :rolleyes. Also during the nutcracker thing, and the recovery. I know I can't give any answer if my daughters asked about what happened.
$5 is a very good deal.

How old are your daughters? I find sheltering causes more problems than exposure...
 
I'm not going to skip them permanently, ;) they are all in my Netflix "Q" :)lol) My original intention was to re-watch all the films in order, but I'm very anxious to see the new Bond.:thumbsup The last time I watched a RM film was AVTAK in the theater, although my 1st Bond was GL at a Bond film-fest at age 4 (1976) :) , RM is the Bond I went to see in theaters thoughout my early years. I've recently seen a few things from my childhood that didn't hold-up :cry, so I'm a little apprehensive to revist RM, he seemed so cool!:cool

I'll be honest, they don't hold up the best... They're fun though, no denying that!

Also, I've never seen TD or PB in Bond roles. When PB didn't get it after Moore I was so :angry I kind of gave up on Bond for a long time.

You're missing out! TD was great as was PB in his first outing. :thumbsup

It was the "buzz" around CR that got interested in the franchise again, but it was seeing SC in Dr. No, then FRWL and GF that sucked me back in :) and seeing the trailer for Skyfall got me pumped to see DC in the role, he looks BAD***!:cool
So far I'd say FRWL is my favorite, but I have 19 more films to go! :D:thumbsup

He is. :)

He's also a deeper character than we're used to. I think you'll like him.

FRWL is a great choice for your #1! I doubt that'll change.
 
My opinion, Sean Connery is the best James Bond actor. Daniel Craig is a great James Bond, he benefits from how much more well made his movies are.

I like a few of the movies with Roger Moore, but I cant buy him as Bond. He doesnt look like he can beat anyone up, or the kind of guy women swoon over.

Pierce Brosnan looks like he could get the girl, but he doesn't seem tough enough. He is too pretty. (I love him in The Matador though, lol.)

I would like to have seen more of George Lazenby in the role. I think he could have really been great with a few more movies. Timothy Dalton would be a great villain in a James Bond movie.

Agreed on all accounts! :thumbsup
 
For what it was at the time SC's Bond was very Flemming. If Dr. No had been released in 1989 It very well could have been as violent as LTK. It was 15 years of Moore that "softened" the audience.



Actually untrue. Moore was famous for not wanting to be too violent because "what about the kids?". LTK took the violence up about 10 notches. I knew Bond before I knew Santa but I still wasn't allowed to see LTK until I was older. :)

This is a BIG part of why I so dislike (relatively speaking) the Moore era. Moore's approach was so...bloodless. And I mean that in a general sense. Devoid of passion and energy on many levels. Everything contained and off-the-cuff.

In a weird way, it actually makes the more violent scenes in Moore's films stand out FAR more, even though they aren't really that extreme by comparison to the other films in the franchise.

Cases in point:

- The dispatching of Locque in FYEO.

- The death of Corinne Clery's character in AVTAK (attacked by dobermans).

Those two deaths strike me as particularly brutal and out of tone with the rest of Moore's era.


Bond movies aren't "for kids." So, my response to "What about the kids?" is "Leave them at home." Note: by "kids" I mean kids below about the age of, eh, 10 or so.

That said, even though I'm not a parent, I recognize that there's no single yardstick applicable to every child. It really is up to the parent to know what their kid can handle and what they can't.


Ever read any fairy tales when you were a kid? Hansel & Grettle were abandoned by their parents and then fattened so that they could be eaten until they burned a witch alive. The three little pigs, in every version I read as a kid the first two pigs are eaten. In little red riding hood Grandma is eaten and killed. The boy who cried wolf? Eaten when the wolf finally arrives. Hell, even in modern times Lion King was brutal in how Simba watched his father die and we saw a stark silhouette at the end of Tarzan of a man being hanged...

This doesn't traumatize kids because kids are able to distinguish between reality and fiction much better than most think. It's up to each parent to decide if their kids are ready for any given material but James Bond has been a father/son experience for 50 years. My grandmother took my father to see the Connery films when they first came out. The violence, right up until LTK, was always scaled back to a level that parents wouldn't feel like jerks for letting their kids watch it. Very little blood for instance. As for the sexuality it's always either implied or under the sheets. 99% of what we see is the little bit before and then the laying in bed afterwards. You'll notice too that people don't swear in Bond films. They're intended as family entertainment on the slightly mature end.

I think that's only really true starting around, oh, YOLT or so. Prior to that, the films were more "teens and up." They've returned to that sense in recent years, albeit without a lot of the stupid comedy that marked (or marred) the Moore and Brosnan eras.

I think, however, that part of the difference in stories and film is that stories are in your mind and are therefore more abstract. Films, on the other hand, remove the abstraction and -- to greater or lesser degrees -- force an audience to confront the reality of the situation (or not, as was often the case with Moore's era). So, on the issue of what a kid can and can't take and their ability to distinguish between reality and fantasy, I think it's a different challenge when you read them a bedtime story (particularly ones with anthropomorphic animals) and when they watch a movie and SEE the stuff happen. "And then the wolf ate Red Riding Hood's grandmother!" is a far cry from actually SEEING the wolf devour poor granny.


Then in LTK we see a man explode from pressure, a person ground in a cocaine grinder, a person eaten by a shark and then left to die... A stark difference from what came before.

LTK was FAR more graphic and gritty than any film in the franchise before it. I'd argue that it is more graphic than any in the franchise since then, actually. I have a hard time thinking of scenes that are as brutal as the ones in that film, with the possible exception of Vesper drowning in CR and the torture scene in that same film. Other than that, the franchise is violent but more of the guns-n-splosions variety rather than blood-n-guts.



Again, we should give kids more credit than we do. What's so objectionable about CR? When I was a kid and saw "sex" scenes I didn't even think about what was going on under the sheets, it was two people kissing. That's all we ever actually see in CR. The one scene that I can see is the "nutcracker". I skipped that. That's what, 2 mins?

I don't personally think there's anything in CR that is particularly graphically violent, but the subject matter and how they execute it is perhaps a bit more mature than what I'd expect a 9 year old to appreciate. The violence -- such as it is -- is a bit more...hmm...impactful and less cartoony than a lot of the other Bond films. The fights -- particularly the hand-to-hand sequences -- are far more visceral than "Judo chop!" scenes from previous entries. What violence you do see also has a serious impact on the characters. Look at Vesper's reaction to witnessing death first-hand. Compare that even to Jinx's reaction to the laser scene in DAD. All jokey-jokey when a guy just had his body cut into pieces.

To me, that's one of the key differences as far as how violence is handled from one film to another. It's not solely about the gore or the brutality. It's overall about the impact of the violence. You may never even see the hit in a particular scene, but the way it's constructed may be INCREDIBLY brutal or impactful even with implied violence.

Imagine, for example, the sequence in American History X with the curbing. I don't recall if you actually even see the hit itself, as much as the setup plus a close-cropped shot of Edward Norton grimacing as he executes the guy and some foley work. That, to me, is the difference between impactful, meaningful violence and violence that is sort of cartoony and off-the-cuff. Pick any of the "commando assault" sequences in the films (with the exception, perhaps, of Thunderball) and it's all bloodless cartoony violence. Most kids would have no problem with that.

Compare that, however, to the fight sequence in CR between Bond and the guy looking for his money, plus the aftermath with him and Vesper sitting in the shower. THAT I could see staying with a kid.
 
That said, even though I'm not a parent, I recognize that there's no single yardstick applicable to every child. It really is up to the parent to know what their kid can handle and what they can't.

And in the end, that's the only thing that really matters. :thumbsup

Imagine, for example, the sequence in American History X with the curbing. I don't recall if you actually even see the hit itself, as much as the setup plus a close-cropped shot of Edward Norton grimacing as he executes the guy and some foley work.

Ugh... So vivid in my mind just reading it... BRUTAL scene. I could feel the concrete on my teeth!
 
Ugh... So vivid in my mind just reading it... BRUTAL scene. I could feel the concrete on my teeth!

Exactly. Even though (as I recall) you don't see the actual hit itself, the violence of that scene has way more impact because it "feels" more real and clearly has serious meaning.

Compare that to various grenade kills in YOLT or TSWLM or -- worse still -- the laser kills in MR. Those come across as about as violent as a 9 year old playing with G.I. Joes making "pew pew!" sound effects themselves. They're meaningless, they're largely devoid of graphic violence, and they really don't matter a bit. They have no real impact.

Or even take Kananga's death in LALD. It's almost straight out of a Tom & Jerry cartoon. It's "meaningful" within the context of the film, but it's so unrealistic that you don't really feel the impact.


Actually this is, I think, part of the trend in "darker" films. It's not that a film is "dark" as much as the violence is generally more visceral and impactful on the audience and "feels" more realistic. That's not the whole story, of course, but I think it's a big part of it. Plus, as the quips become far less frequent, there's far less to lighten the tension of the moment.

Imagine the impact that Locque's death in FYEO would've had if Moore had simply said "I believe you left this with Ferrara," kicked the car off the cliff, and looked down at it grimly as it burned, then turned and walked away. Instead, you get "He had no head for heights," which ultimately defuses the tension and robs the scene of impact.




Actually, this raises a whole separate potential discussion:

Top 5 and Bottom 5 post-kill moments in Bond films.

I know what my #1 is, but I'd really have to think about the rest.
 
Or even take Kananga's death in LALD. It's almost straight out of a Tom & Jerry cartoon. It's "meaningful" within the context of the film, but it's so unrealistic that you don't really feel the impact.

Can you imagine if they had used the novel's take on his death? Gruesome! :eek


Actually, this raises a whole separate potential discussion:

Top 5 and Bottom 5 post-kill moments in Bond films.

I know what my #1 is, but I'd really have to think about the rest.

A new game! :D

For me I think number 1 would still have to be "You've had your six". So cold, especially for the time... But I'd have to think about it some more.

Definitely a place for "Yes, considerably" as well. :thumbsup
 
You beat me to it!:darnkids So far that's my favorite bond line! On the re-watch I backed it up 3 times for that :cool:thumbsup

Followed by the cold "matter of fact" look on his face as he removes the silencer. Everything you need to know about Bond right there. He doesn't **** around!
 
Okay, my "off the top of my head" favourite five kill moments (post, but I've included some pre lines as some of my favourites are best in conjunction. :) )

5. Goldfinger - "Shocking, positively shocking". Just love that one even though it isn't a huge impact moment.

4. Skyfall - "Last rat standing". Such a perfect bookend.

3. License to Kill - "You earned it, you keep it. 'Old Buddy'." Followed by the cold look of revenge while he watches a man be torn apart.

2. Casino Royale - "Don't worry, the second is always..." BLAM "Yes. Considerably." He was channelling Connery there.

1. Dr. No - "You've had your six" followed by an extra shot in the back for good luck and coldly removing the silencer.
 
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