Prometheus (Post-release)

[Too Much Garlic]

We have weapon installations here on Earth. It just seems clear to me that the mission landed the first moment it spotted potential artificially constructed structures. If they'd perhaps flown 15 clicks to the south, they may have spotted a city or something else.

And what happens when you enter a weapons depot here on Earth without clearance? You are arrested or shot.

 

[Jeyl]

Just read both script drafts - have a couple questions for you guys. All these Earth cultures that had the "star map" - why would the Engineers leave/communicate to humans directions to their weapons depot/LV-233 BEFORE they got mad at us? Did the Engineers once have reverence for their children, and when they did, gave them a note that said, "Come visit us here" - but then after the death of ******, the Engineers decided to end their experiment and start over/"wipe the slate clean."

If I have to talk about the context of the drafts, I would speculate that these are not the same Engineers who created us. Over the course of centuries their society changed, regulations were reworked, they adopted the Star Trek Prime Directive, and just turned into a bunch of a-holes. When they came to the planet marked in the map, they decided to turn it into a weapons facility and wipe the slate clean should we become a problem for them.

As for ******. Wait... you're serious. ***** ****** is actually relevant? Should the Passion of the ****** be regarded as a prequel to Prometheus than? That'd be one weird bundle.

Best Movie Trilogy EVAR:
- Passion of the ******
- Prometheus
- ALIEN

And why not? They're both owned by FOX and feature bald hairless people in robes.

SATAN WAS AN ENGINEER!

:eek

 

[Kit Rae]

Just read both script drafts - have a couple questions for you guys. All these Earth cultures that had the "star map" - why would the Engineers leave/communicate to humans directions to their weapons depot/LV-233 BEFORE they got mad at us? Did the Engineers once have reverence for their children, and when they did, gave them a note that said, "Come visit us here" - but then after the death of ******, the Engineers decided to end their experiment and start over/"wipe the slate clean."

I guess where I'm lost is why the weapons depot planet? If they "were cool" with us (multiple visits/leaving directions) before the death of ******, wouldn't they have left directions to their "Paradise"/home planet?

Apologies if this was discussed before, but I missed it. Was hoping there'd be a little more info in the drafts...

The question is, was Shaw even correct that it was an invitation, and if so, did the Prometheus expedition even go to the correct world from that group of five stars? It seems obvious from the film that they were not intended to go to LV-233 simply based on what the function of that outpost was, and the film ends with Shaw going to the Engineer's real home world. The fact that the references to the 'Paradise' planet were removed from the final cut indicate that Ridley purposefully wanted that left as a question.

There is additional info on the Blue Ray extras indicating Shaw and Holloway thought LV-223 was the best candidate to visit based on the long range probes Weyland sent. Weyland thought LV-426 was more interesting because they detected the warning signal, but only David was told this. None of that is in the film however, and no mention of the probes finding any other candidate planets or moons on the BR extras.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Reached page 26 of the Spaihts script... has everything I wanted in the movie so far. It may break later though, but I cannot understand why any of that was cut? Even with the Lindelof additions to David when they were in hypersleep, the dream stuff, the waking up bits would have worked so much better. Also... pretty strange that all the people are described as pretty people.

Will be interesting to compare this beginning with the Lindelof script.

 

[Kit Rae]

We have weapon installations here on Earth. It just seems clear to me that the mission landed the first moment it spotted potential artificially constructed structures. If they'd perhaps flown 15 clicks to the south, they may have spotted a city or something else.

They scanned the planet prior to entering the atmosphere and flew directly to where the 'hard spots' were detected in the scans.

"We've got a couple of hard spots. Could be metal".

Interestingly, none of that stuff where they were checking the planet out on the film is in either script.

 

[Jodo]

I turned in my essay on the 1950's genre yesterdau, so we'll see what I got on it after T-Day break!

 

[Too Much Garlic]

At page 70 and that's where the story cracks. Up until then it was pretty good. Still think the single biggest mistake in the whole thing is the opening scene.

 

[ghostryder]

The question is, was Shaw even correct that it was an invitation, and if so, did the Prometheus expedition even go to the correct world from that group of five stars? It seems obvious from the film that they were not intended to go to LV-233 simply based on what the function of that outpost was, and the film ends with Shaw going to the Engineer's real home world.

I keep trying to imagine these "contact" moments between Earth civilizations and the Engineers - what was it they were communicating (by leaving the star map)? Go here? Don't go here? We're from here? I get that maybe it wasn't an invitation, but it seems like an odd location. Maybe I missed something here, as presented in the movie, the Shaw/Holloway holographic extrapolation pointed to LV-233 - and there *were* Engineers there - just not cute, cuddly ones welcoming them with open arms. Was there a point in time when humans WOULD have been welcomed at LV-233?


ON THE SCREEN -- VISUALS OF VARIOUS DIG SITES ALL OVER THE WORLD as Shaw explains --

HOLLOWAY​

These are images from archaeological digs
all over Earth. Aztec. Hopi. Inuit.
Mesopotamian. Ancient Civilizations
separated by centuries that shared no
contact with one another, and yet...
(beat; with import)
The same pictogram was discovered in
every last one of them.​

NOW, THE CAVE WALL we saw at the beginning of the movie. The PICTOGRAM -- The GIANT POINTING TO THE STARS.

ON THE CREW. Rapt... but CONFUSED. MORE IMAGES -- The same PICTOGRAM at other SITES
in other forms -- Sometimes etched onto a VASE -- Here as a MURAL woven into a TAPESTRY --

HOLLOWAY​

We did astrological overlays of the stars
depicted in these drawings and the only
galactic system they matched was so from
Earth, these primitive cultures couldn’t
possibly have known about it.​

THE SCREEN -- GRAPHIC -- THE STAR FIELDS from the various pictograms literally FLOAT OFF of their cave walls and become 3-D REPRESENTATIONS of ACTUAL CONSTELLATIONS.

HOLLOWAY​

It just so happens that system has a sun
a lot like ours. And based on our long
range scans, there seemed to be at least
one planet capable of sustaining life.
(pauses for effect)
We arrived there this morning.​

THE CREW REACTS -- Where is he GOING with this? Fifield speaks up, CYNICAL --

FIFIELD​

We’re here because of a map in a cave?
And before Holloway can respond, Shaw does it for him --​

SHAW​

Not a map. An invitation.​

In Spaiht's draft, when the planet was still LV-426, Shaw interprets communication as "an invite" - while in Alien, Ripley interprets the signal as "a warning" - granted the signals weren't the same and who knows who they were intended for, but interesting insight into the story's development... lol, I think I'm overthinking this).

 

[Demetrios2177]

Interestingly, none of that stuff where they were checking the planet out on the film is in either script.

I hope I don't get this wrong, but in Spaihts' script, there is an extensive scanning sequence going on from page 24.

 

[Kit Rae]

I hope I don't get this wrong, but in Spaihts' script, there is an extensive scanning sequence going on from page 24.

Yes, he wrote some great stuff, but I'm talking about what was in the film. There are scenes of them doing this, with lots of expository dialogue in the film, but none of it is in the leaked Lindelof script. There is no material regarding inspecting the planet at all in Lindelof's draft, and only one line in the film (about finding metal) resembles something from Spaith's draft. Either Lindelof's leaked script is not the final version, or those scenes were written on set or in pickups.

 

[Demetrios2177]

Either Lindelof's leaked script is not the final version, or those scenes were written on set or in pickups.

Yes, it feels like the latter to me.

 

[Kit Rae]

I keep trying to imagine these "contact" moments between Earth civilizations and the Engineers - what was it they were communicating (by leaving the star map)? Go here? Don't go here? We're from here? I get that maybe it wasn't an invitation, but it seems like an odd location. Maybe I missed something here, as presented in the movie, the Shaw/Holloway holographic extrapolation pointed to LV-233 - and there *were* Engineers there - just not cute, cuddly ones welcoming them with open arms. Was there a point in time when humans WOULD have been welcomed at LV-233?

It pointed to a system of stars. Nothing indicated which one to visit, but it is odd that they were given a group of five stars, and nothing more specific. The Engineer visits were more than just contacts, since it is implied that they posed as gods, and were worshipped as gods by all of numerous cultures around the world, left these signs, then stopped the the visits altogether. Lots of open questions there for Shaw to find the answers to if Ridley actually does another film.

In Lindelof's usual style, he made a point in one of the interviews by saying, how do they even know for sure it was an invite, and how do they know they went to the right place? They don't.

Ilol, I think I'm overthinking this).

I think we all are, but that's exactly what Ridley wanted people to be doing after seeing it.

 

[ghostryder]

Ahh, thanks Kit! Always insightful...

One thing I couldn't help but notice in Lindelof's draft - was how many times the word "*****" actually appears. I don't mean in just dialogue, but in the action descriptions as well. Wonder if this was intentional or not...

 

[Stormy320]

You know, when a movie requires this much post viewing archeological digging to find substance, it screams failure of product. It's a shame really. It really should/could have been a great film.



Doug

I totally agree.

 

[Kit Rae]

Ahh, thanks Kit! Always insightful...

One thing I couldn't help but notice in Lindelof's draft - was how many times the word "*****" actually appears. I don't mean in just dialogue, but in the action descriptions as well. Wonder if this was intentional or not...

I think he just curses a lot when he talks for emphasis, most frequently saying ***** or ***** ******. His scripts read as if he were talking to you, and that's the way he talks. I have read A LOT of scripts in the past 20 years, and he definitely has a unique way of writing, but it gets the mood and intent of the action and dialogue across quite well. A good script should read as if you were watching a film, with all the beats, pacing, and mood shift playing out as you read them. Spaith's writing is totally different, and more script writing standard, but he is really good too.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Finished Spaihts' script. Liked it up until around page 70 and then it got really boring. Gonna read Lindelof's tomorrow.

What I found was basically that, like in the film, my interest was severed the moment things started going wrong and all the horror cliche elements started popping up. I liked Spaihts build-up and arrival on the planet and where they started stripping the terraforming equipment from the pyramid and all the drama surrounding all that better than the movie that just seemed to rush over all that... but once all the "infection" and "alien" stuff came along it just killed a good grounded story of mystery of alien encounters, creation and corporate greed. It just fell apart after page 70 and what was actually built up through the previous pages was just lost and wasted.

+ I still don't like the opening scene with the Engineer.

I see the foundations of a great story in the first half of the script that just goes into cliche overdrive and loses its purpose after that. A real shame. I would have liked a continuation of the mystery the crew could have researched and uncovered in the abandoned complex more than the attempt to push it into an Alien formulaic story for the remainder of the piece.

As I've mentioned before... the pull away from the Alien stuff was a good choice... I just don't think they pulled far enough away from that, both in what they kept in the movie and following the horror/slasher movie formula, shoehorning it into the film, where it just didn't fit. There was just absolutely no need for that and that was some of the things that ruined the movie premise for me.

 

[ghostryder]

His scripts read as if he were talking to you, and that's the way he talks.

lol, kinda like my own...

 

[Jeyl]

In Lindelof's usual style, he made a point in one of the interviews by saying, how do they even know for sure it was an invite, and how do they know they went to the right place? They don't.

So his style is that the story is none of our business..... alright.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Just finished the Lindelof script. What a huge disappointment. He basically killed everything that was good in the Spaihts script, except for the parts about David when they were journeying towards LV-422.

I still hold to the first 65-70 pages of the Spaihts script minus the initial scene with the engineers and with the added Lindelof David additions is the good parts. Everything after that is just blatantly boring in both scripts. Those 70 pages held the promise of an awesome story... and they just lost it, threw it away and went with the craptacular Alien rip-off, disaster movie with typical horror cliche elements. Too formulaic and boring.

Lindelof certainly didn't improve things... and his writing style is horrendous. Honestly... it's a damn shame as I think a genuinely interesting and awesome movie was lurking in that original script and was just refused to come out and shine, when things just went towards "hey, this is an Alien prequel, so we have to include this and this and this".

As I've always said... the formulaic b-horror/slasher formula did not fit the movie at all, as well as the retarded characters. Heck, in both scripts they are written as the best of the best, but somehow in the movie, they got turned into the hacks and inept mercenaries of their trade. Still favor the first part of Spaihts script to anything else... THAT is good storytelling and building up a tension and atmosphere as they are going to, arriving at, and start exploring this ancient alien site. It's like both scripts were afraid to actually go where the first part of the story was building up to. Something utterly different than what had come before... something extraordinary... something... in a way... beautiful. A shame... a damn shame.

 

[ghostryder]

There's a draft out there of Spaiht's "Shadow 19" which is a pretty entertaining read. (I found this online, but it's not the same one I read:

http://www.whoaisnotme.net/scripts/S19_2006_3D.pdf )

Anyway, the ideas that worked their way into Damon's draft - I have to wonder what "new ideas" he was asked to integrate by Ridley and the Fox execs vs. what were solely his own. When you're brought by the studio for a rewrite on someone else's work, sometimes you get: "What would you do?" and sometimes you get: "Here's what we want you to do:"