Phaser 1 Kit Buildup plus MM P2 Restoration

[asalaw]

Back to the shop to turn another acrylic emitter, possibly two -- and a couple new tricks in mind for it to hopefully speed up the process and get a better emitter too. Also, iPhone 7+ finally arrived today, so expect even better pix.

(They'd said November 16, but I think that was deliberately exaggerated. Apple's made a fine art of playing the expectations game. Just like someone else we know.)

I said eight weeks, ye borgas frat!!!

 

[Sean]

All the parts are looking fantastic my friend. glad to see you at a shop again big time.:thumbsup

 

[asalaw]

Well, better and better! I think I have the method nailed down, though still some tiny kinks to figure out with the measurements. I think I need to go up one more bit size for the back hole, from 1/8" to 9/64". I think the front hole looks exactly right at 1/16", and the little divot at the tip looks right at 3/32". Yeah, these are tiny, tiny increments.

So let's go back to the look I'm trying to match. I just want to be clear about what I'm after, and maybe some of you might see it differently. I admit my eyes are pretty crossed at this point, so opinions are definitely welcome. So here's what I have on hand showing the tip on the GJ original:




Far as I can see (and that's not as far as it used to be), that back hole is so wide it it appears to go right out to the edge. At 1/8" and a 3 1/2º taper, I'm still not quite there. But there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Just how the frak do you know that?


So I figured out a way to come up to it incrementally, rather than try some calculation and then screw it up, as entertaining as that might be.

I started drilling first, this time on the lathe again. The bits are still wobbling, literally from the moment they touch the acrylic. Still haven't figured out why, but at this point it's too small a variation to worry about with the naked eye. It's only when I start getting geeky with the magnifigation that I start getting all flustered.

Too close?


Somehow, I don't think Jimmy Rugg had a 12MP phone camera in mind when he made those things.

Anyhoo, I decided to drill the holes first, beginning with a 2" long piece of stock. I did the 1/16" hole on one side, and flipped the piece in the chuck to drill the back hole out to 1/8".



Then I turned the taper at 3 1/2º (or thereabouts -- it's not exactly an aerospace-accurate part of the lathe). Since the interior hole was already there, I could check my progress visually. This became important toward the end, since I could flip the piece around to drill the back hole a little deeper as the taper got closer to where it needed to be. So at the end, I would taper off a few thousandths of an inch, then flip the piece in the chuck, drill the hole a couple thou deeper, flip it again and do another taper pass, and so forth. This allowed me to get much closer than I ever have without screwing up the piece.



At the very end, I left myself just a smidge of excess to allow for sanding, and still I'm not quite there. Also, the last thing I did was to just tap the drill bit into the tip with the 3/32" bit to create the divot.



This may be it for a couple of weeks -- I may be starting a two-week gig on Thursday (I'll know tomorrow). If so, I'll be able to re-up for November as well, and maybe even get to work on this on my birthday. Otherwise, I'll be back on this on Friday, most likely doing something else. If I don't take this emitter in small doses, things could get a little rough.

Ken knows what I'm talking about.

 

[quarryman]

I have one suggestion that might help stabilize the wobbly bit. Try choking up on the bit in the chuck as much as you can to start the hole. Then incrementally extend the bit out of the chuck for more depth. With it hanging out as much as it is in your picture, I can imagine it's all over the place.

 

[asalaw]

I have one suggestion that might help stabilize the wobbly bit. Try choking up on the bit in the chuck as much as you can to start the hole. Then incrementally extend the bit out of the chuck for more depth. With it hanging out as much as it is in your picture, I can imagine it's all over the place.

That was exactly my plan going in! Unfortunately, the chuck has a shallow throat, and what you see in the photos is as chucked in as I could get it. I was hoping to have the bit just sticking out less than 1/8", which I was sure would take care of it. Totally forgot to mention that in my post.

I've gotta either find a shorter bit, or cut one down.

 

[asalaw]

Well, just got confirmed for a new gig that's gonna eat up all my free time for about two weeks, but it should be pretty lucrative. Yay! And crap!

Meanwhile, going to the shop tonight for a couple hours' worth of getting my lathe jollies before the grindstone misery that starts tomorrow. I might go at the emitter again after cutting down at least one bit, or I may decide to make it a nice and easy night of turning and parting comm hinges. I'll post briefly before I go off-radar.

I'll be back at this once the gig is over (and I've had a couple days' sleep). Probably after the 1st.

So,

You're all invited back next month to this locality
To have a heapin' helpin' of some prop buffoonery!

Y'all come back now and clean up this damn mess, ye hear?

 

[Sean]

:thumbsup LOL

 

[asalaw]

Well, it's been a very interesting evening. On the one hand, I've got my recipe for the hero emitter down.

On the other hand, this thing isn't gonna work in acrylic. So after my little work break, I'm switching to polycarbonate (Lexan).

So here's how things shaped up tonight:

I started by cutting down one of my 1/16" bits with an angle grinder (the bandsaw was in full butterknife mode). Then I chucked it WAY back, and commenced to drillin'. I pulled the bit out a couple of millimeters after every plunge, went really slow, and dumped OPEC's entire supply of oil on it as I went. Got a pretty good result. Yay!!



Sadly, this result was not to be repeated.



Yup. That ain't just a little wobble. That's a frakkin' helix. TF? WT actual F??

But I really wanted to get at least a finished prototype -- helix or no, I needed to get these measurements figured out. Holes, taper, the whole... uh... the whole... uh...

Ball of wax. That was it.


So as you can see, I repeated my drill-taper-drill-taper thing, except this time I only had to do it once. This definitely looks right to my eye (except for the whole wobble thing), so my finished pieces will use these measurements.



So without further Apu...

Cuz he's off to vote early for Trump...


Here's the final taper specs I'm gonna go with (until I get better measurements of the original):

Taper: 4º
Taper length: 1" (ish)
Front hole: 1/16"
Back hole: 9/64"
Tip divot: 5/64"
Tip diameter: 0.2" (ish)
Shaft diameter: 5/16"

​

Trust me, baby, it's 5/16" of pure awesome.


The final length and rear profile are still TBD. I have to basically make that up out of whole cloth, since nobody's ever X-rayed the inside of the nozzle (that I'm aware of). So I'm going to play with the prototype emitter and the 3D-printed prototype brass piece till I figure it out.

So, now...

What's all this about doing these in polycarbonate?

It just so happens that tonight I ran into Adam, the nice mechanical engineer from Post #366 on Page 15.

And here I had this amazing, accidental pile of helical art in acrylic. So I thought, hell, why not walk the ten feet or so to the nearest mechanical engineer and ask him, like, WTF, dude?

He took one look and asked first if that was acrylic. I said yes, and his opinion was that it was a thermal problem. In other words, the plastic is overheating and pulling the bit out of whack.

Adam had an interesting solution:

"I avoid acrylic whenever possible."

My whole life has been a lie!!


Lexan, he explained, is WAY better to machine, and doesn't get these problems at all. Also, it's generally much stronger, and way more scratch-resistant than acrylic.

He also told me about vapor polishing, which is apparently really easy with acrylic -- maybe its only advantage over Lexan. You suspend the workpiece in a closed container over a small amount of acetone. The vapors liquefy the outer layer of the acrylic, causing it to re-flow. When it re-solidifies, you've got a smooth, clear finish again. Great way to take out machining marks (yup, that would've saved me a ton of work a year ago).

But after our talk, it was clear the vapor polishing wasn't going to smooth out that frakkin' barber pole inside my emitter, so... Lexan it is!!

So that's how this is gonna go. I have my dimensions now, so all I have to do is lay in some 5/16" polycarbonate stock and get back to work. I think this is where I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel with this piece...

Why does this view look so familiar?


See you guys on the other side!

 

[robn1]

Are you using cast acrylic or extruded? I've never used cast but it's supposed to be more resistant to heat deformation.

 

[asalaw]

Cast, of course. Extruded has a nasty tendency to shatter when you machine it. My first attempts established that really well, cuz of course reinventing the wheel is the best way every time. . Unfortunately, acrylic in general just isn't very heat-tolerant.

EDIT -- actually, let me revise that. It has a nasty tendency to shatter when I machine it. YMMV.

 

[GSS]

Cast, of course. Extruded has a nasty tendency to shatter when you machine it. My first attempts established that really well, cuz of course reinventing the wheel is the best way every time. . Unfortunately, acrylic in general just isn't very heat-tolerant.

EDIT -- actually, let me revise that. It has a nasty tendency to shatter when I machine it. YMMV.

Iv'e been faithfully following your acrylic work trying to learn from your mistakes "which i'm thankful if that makes any sense":facepalm
I really need to take your constant remarks to go slow but I still rush and and over heat the plastic after the first few mm of drilling go smooth. The thing is i'm using a hand drill with one hand and holding the piece with the other. I'm working on the original "Diamond Select" phaser tip that comes with it and wondering what its made of?
Is it just injected mold clear plastic? I do know I need to polish up the hole and thinking the best way

 

[asalaw]

Iv'e been faithfully following your acrylic work trying to learn from your mistakes "which i'm thankful if that makes any sense":facepalm
I really need to take your constant remarks to go slow but I still rush and and over heat the plastic after the first few mm of drilling go smooth. The thing is i'm using a hand drill with one hand and holding the piece with the other. I'm working on the original "Diamond Select" phaser tip that comes with it and wondering what its made of?
Is it just injected mold clear plastic? I do know I need to polish up the hole and thinking the best way

I'm always hoping others will learn from my pro-level half-assery, which is a big part of why I do it. That plus it's much more fun to read (and write!) than "HERE YOU SEE MY MAD SKILZ. YOU COULD NEVER DO THIS. YOU WILL WORSHIP ME, TINY HUMAN. AND BRING ME PUDDING. I LIKE PUDDING."

I'd rather believe that...

Your piece is probably injection-molded clear acrylic. As far as I know, that's what's most commonly used in making clear toy and model parts. The one on my desk here is definitely injection-molded. It seems a little milky, and I think that may be deliberate to show the light a little better.

As for your drilling operation, you might want to think about finding a way to secure your work to a bench or table, preferably in a horizontal position. Easier to control that way. Try mixing C-clamps and pieces of wood till you get a configuration that's stable and easy to aim your drill into. It would also let you hold the drill with both hands.

If your drill has variable torque, I'd set it all the way down -- better the drill should stall than hurt your piece.

Another thing you might try is starting the hole with a very small bit on a pin vise, like maybe a 1/32" bit. That will definitely keep your piece from overheating, since you have to turn it by hand. Don't use too much force -- let your lube do the work.

I know, ladies, I know. But you'll just have to sit down and wait your turn.


Other than that, keep the piece very wet to help it stay cool. Try water with just a drop of dishwashing liquid. The soap will break the surface tension of the water and help it flow better into nooks and crannies.

Good luck! Let us know what happens. And don't forget the pudding.

 

[asalaw]

Another thing -- you could try one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-74041-Electric-Handy-Drill/dp/B000J46WZ4

Definitely easier to control than a full-sized drill, battery powered, and slow enough not to tempt you to melt your piece.

 

[GSS]

That's what its all about my friend, I tend to avoid the "I know it all" thread's. Iv'e come back to this forum 100's of times to see how others disasembled or modded a prop that has saved me many mistakes and got me going in the right direction.
Yup you can see the injection mold marks and for sure these tips are frosted like you mentioned maby for the Led's. Tony from "Federation Phaser" did me an awesome favor by selling me a few extra tips he had laying around for very cheap:angel
That little hobby drill you linked sure is cool and just might be it. A jig setup is a good idea and maby make one to use over and over.
asalaw thanks for the help and if I come up with something that polishes the inside hole i'll sure chime in.

 

[robn1]

Great tip using pudding as a drilling lube, I'll try it out :thumbsup

And that Tamiya drill is great but remember it's a kit you have to assemble.

 

[asalaw]

Great tip using pudding as a drilling lube, I'll try it out :thumbsup

And not just fer drillin'!

 

[GSS]

Great tip using pudding as a drilling lube, I'll try it out :thumbsup

And that Tamiya drill is great but remember it's a kit you have to assemble.

So i'm going to have to make a thread within a thread to figure out how to put it together:facepalm
Ok so I tried using a string tied onto the kitchen sink faucet knob and put it through the hole of the plastic emitter and ran the emitter back and forth with comet powder and water while holding the other end of the string with my other hand. This did work a little as far as polishing but not as good as a while ago when I used a pipe cleaner on another piece.
Still though I need to go to the next step as far as some 2000 grit paper. If i figure a way of getting that 2000 grit paper in the hole without jaming or clogging or what not, what would you recommend as far as liquid. Soap, WD40, 3 in 1 oil?

 

[asalaw]

So i'm going to have to make a thread within a thread to figure out how to put it together:facepalm
Ok so I tried using a string tied onto the kitchen sink faucet knob and put it through the hole of the plastic emitter and ran the emitter back and forth with comet powder and water while holding the other end of the string with my other hand. This did work a little as far as polishing but not as good as a while ago when I used a pipe cleaner on another piece.
Still though I need to go to the next step as far as some 2000 grit paper. If i figure a way of getting that 2000 grit paper in the hole without jaming or clogging or what not, what would you recommend as far as liquid. Soap, WD40, 3 in 1 oil?

I think you're better off finding a way to drill the hole without leaving tool marks in the first place, which is why I drill the way I do -- very slowly (40rpm) and with lots of oil. You can also use water with a drop of liquid dish detergent for that. I don't do any interior polishing because it's so difficult (if not impossible) to get anything in there that will apply the proper amount of abrasive and buffing.

I think Comet may be too abrasive for polishing, but toothpaste should work better. The paste kind, not the gel kind -- something like the cheap $1 toothpastes on the bottom shelf at the grocery store (which are also great for your teeth, btw).

I've never even tried to get the sandpaper on the inside of the piece. All that stuff is for the outside. I've done no sanding or polishing on the inside of the piece at all. But to answer your question, I've always used regular water for wetsanding till now, when I was too lazy to walk across the shop floor to the sink and decided to try Tap Magic cutting oil instead. It worked very well.

Off to work now (yup -- on a Sunday. Sucks, but it pays).

 

[robn1]

I use metal polish on acrylic, you can get the inside with polish using a drill bit running in reverse. Use an old bit or get a cheap one, the polish may dull it. But remember the originals were drilled acrylic and they weren't polished clear, the inner drilled surface was pretty frosty.

 

[GSS]

I use metal polish on acrylic, you can get the inside with polish using a drill bit running in reverse. Use an old bit or get a cheap one, the polish may dull it. But remember the originals were drilled acrylic and they weren't polished clear, the inner drilled surface was pretty frosty.

Nice suggestion, I will sure try as I have plenty of drills to spare.
This popped into my head as about 30 years ago I worked in a screw machine shop that specialized in plastic's of all kinds. Lots of water and argon oil mixtures that were air compressed sprayed on the piece being machined. It reeked havic on the machinery as the slides and gibbs would have to be replaced or fixed do to the coolant used. We used alot of half drills that were spiral less that let the chips come out easily. I just can't think of the style name.......