Opinion Thread Vader Experts, what's the origin...

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by propsculptor, Apr 5, 2006.

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  1. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Vader Helmet Experts,
    Help me determine the origin of this ANH Vader helmet...


    I got this in a trade deal, it's origin is the guy who gave it to me (Greg Hanson)
    picked this up from his contact in LA years ago. It resembles the "ghost host"
    helmet, but is NOT a Recast. It's a cleaner, much better casting.

    He also said, he did not get it from anyone at Don Post Studios,
    nor did he get it from Roger Sides as someone suggested to me.

    Here are the photos...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Please keep this discussion be Civil, thanks :)
     
  2. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    If youre looking for civility, Id suggest editting your last few words as they are rather potent so to speak.

    If your asking for the origin why declare what it isnt? Know what I mean?
     
  3. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I posted that last line because I know how people can get
    in heated discussions.
     
  4. CTF

    CTF Sr Member

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    I can't get the pics to load. :( Use the Chimp, dude.
     
  5. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I was stating my knowledge of it's history, I'm asking for other opinions of where it may be from, since I don't know a lot about ANH Vader Helmets.

     
  6. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Pics Fixed.
     
  7. JediCarl

    JediCarl Well-Known Member

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    Whatever it is, it looks might nice. :love
     
  8. Ghost Host

    Ghost Host Sr Member

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    Looks kinda like a helmet TE was trying to sell for alot of $ a couple years back, claiming it was from original production molds... specifically made for Prouse in '77 but ended up in collectors hands instead. I doubt that story was true though.
     
  9. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The helmet on the left in the last pic is a Fyberdyne (or from its family tree, earlier or later). If that was the source, I think it is fair game to rework, as it traces back to LFL (or no one has claimed otherwise, TMK), albeit after many generations and tweakings by many hands. No one person can lay claim to that helmet. (Well, Unca George and Fox can, of course.)

    (Speaking as a member and not a mod on this one.)
     
  10. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Propsculptor...I didnt mean any offense regarding my comment. Hope you understand :) I just saw a shipe storm potentially coming per sensitivities.
     
  11. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    None taken :) I appreciate it.

     
  12. yakcam

    yakcam Sr Member

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    In my humble opinion, I agree with Treadwell, I think it's a Fyberdyne derivative.

    Nice helmet BTW :)

    Cheers,

    Kraig
     
  13. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Can you tell me more about the Fyberdyne Helmet?
    (Or am I just asking to open a whole can of worms?.)
     
  14. yakcam

    yakcam Sr Member

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  15. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    I agree it came from a Fyberdyne-like helmet that was extensively reworked. The helmets (domes) are a good match. The Fyberdyne would be further down the lineage from whatever Don Post style helmet it came from (perhaps a GH-style helmet). Did it originally have a cabinet latch on the forehead? That would be a dead giveaway. (whoever's Fyberdyne helmet pic that is I hope you don't mind me using it)

    [​IMG]


    edit: On the lower lip of your faceplate....the top and bottom edges are parallel unlike the original ANH where the top horizontal edge curves downward toward the lower edge. The Fyberdyne also has this feature...

    T
     
  16. kell

    kell Well-Known Member

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    origins smorigins..... What a piece of junk, the only thing to do is box it up and ship it to me :love

    super clean looking. I'm not even going to take a stab at the lineage, sure we will all be surprised when its figured out. :confused

    now get that thing finished, and painted, place in a box and send it to me.

    Kell
     
  17. fettpride

    fettpride Well-Known Member

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    This IS the VERY helmet that TE was trying to sell. I had it in my posession for about 6 days contemplating the purchase myself. His friend was on his way to ComicCon '04 and met me about 70 miles away to deliver it to me for inspection. After I DECLINED the transaction, it was carefully shipped back to TE. I still have the pictures if anyone is interested. It really was a nice clean helmet. It needed a little finishing here and there with the exposed bondo on the dome, but overall, really nice ;)



    FP
     
  18. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    Please do show us those pictures Fettpride. Anything that shows the faceplate straight on and preferably without the dome.

    I want to know if this is another helmet out of the Jeff W school of Vader helmets. The uniform thickness of the mouth reminds me of Gino's faceplate which also came from Jeff.
     
  19. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    After six days of deliberation, what finally made you decide you didn't want the helmet?

    Don't mean to be too nosy, fettpride... just interested in knowing more about the bucket. :)
     
  20. fettpride

    fettpride Well-Known Member

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    As requested ...


    I have more pics. Just need to find them all. I have about 6 archive DVD to look through :lol


    These are pics of propsculptor's helmet next to a , uh ... welll Wolfmorgan Reveal pile :lol

    It really is a SHARP helmet guys, rest easy ...



    [​IMG]


    In this pic, you can see the SAME EXACT bondo areas around the skirt of the dome in case there is any doubt ...


    [​IMG]



    And a detail shot of the face ...



    [​IMG]



    Why did I not take the helmet? That is a long story :lol It had nothing to do with how nice the helmet is though ;)

    FP




    ***EDIT*** Added Pic
     
  21. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I bet it had a lot to do with the asking price. :D

     
  22. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Okay. Nuff said.

    Thanks. :D
     
  23. fettpride

    fettpride Well-Known Member

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    :lol


    No problem guys :D


    FP
     
  24. fettpride

    fettpride Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I missed this one ....

    A little birdy told me .... yes ;)

    I'm stepping out of this one now ... I filled propsculptor in on what exactly it is I know about this helmet to help him out. Any further shared info will be at his discretion since it is his thread. I didn't mean to derail anything :lol


    FP
     
  25. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    No problem as I already told you, nothing has been derailed.

    All the information I get I'll post here for those interested.

     
  26. paulcarson

    paulcarson Well-Known Member

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    That's cool. I can't wait to see more. :)
     
  27. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    THAT was fast how this turned from an "origin" inquiry to a "interest" thread.

    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=108281

    I guess recasting is not frowned upon in this situation. I wonder why I bother speaking up against recasting when so many people apparently don't care.
     
  28. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    This is not a case of recasting since the history of this helmet has been discussed in detail.

     
  29. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    Since no one seems to "speak for" the Fyberdyne-style helmet and since this particular version was changed significantly from the original Fyberdyne, and unless TE considers it his own Vader helmet, it seems open for "business" :lol

    T
     
  30. fettpride

    fettpride Well-Known Member

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    Darn it, I was trying to stay out of this now :lol

    Nohumorman - you know that I'm an opponent of the recasting of private works . :confused

    But, if you saw how much bondo was on this bad boy, I seriously don't think it would bother ya ;)


    FP
     
  31. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    What you plan to do is "recasting", unless you have the mold. Recasting IS exactly what lies in the word:
    Re(=again)cast... or more commonly said: a cast of a cast.

    Making a mold from a helmet and making casts from that mold is recasting. Plain and simple. That's what the word means. But if I'm wrong, then I would love to know.

    I'm sorry fettpride, my response was not directed at you at all. I apologize if it could be read that way.

    I just find it very strange that some people find it okay to just make a mold from a helmet and then offer copies of that helmet, just because no one "claims" ownership or whatever over it.
     
  32. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    Lets not forget that the Fyberdyne was a recast of Jeff's helmet. The continuous improvements that have been made to it as seen in the GH, Gino and now Propsculpter helmet have all been made by who? Jeff?

    Would Jeff be happy about another of his helmets being recast? Or can we consider it all fair game? History tells us it's fair game and we even have a staff member giving the green light :lol
     
  33. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    This just in...
    From Greg H himself:

     
  34. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    It had to have originated from Jeff as the details of this new helmet are too consistant with Jeff's other offerings. This Jeff W seems to be the godfather of Vader props. The only thing I haven't figured out is if he actually sculpts them himself or hires someone else to do it. I'm also curious whether he demands screen used prices for these helmets or an equivalent value in trade.
     
  35. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Do you have photos of Jeff's Helmets that you can post?

    I knew Jeff years ago when he worked at Icons and I didn't
    even know he made Vader helmets.

     
  36. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    Hey I'm only a JAFO. Both Ghost Host & Gino have had or still are in contact with Jeff so they could fill you in more about the days when he sold helmets. I have only one picture of what is claimed to be one of Jeff's helmets which has been posted here before but the quality is so low-res it's almost useless.
     
  37. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    ...I suspect that 99% of the fan made Vader helmets out there originated this way......
     
  38. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    So... I'm NOT wrong? :)
     
  39. fettpride

    fettpride Well-Known Member

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    Um, Interesting. I seriously don't want to be any more involved than I already got myself , but now things appear to be getting a little distorted. I sent you an e-mail about a few minutes ago.


    FP
     
  40. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    Oh no....I'm not falling for that one. :p
     
  41. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I don't know what to tell you, I've posted the information exactly as I receive it,
    nothing is distorted, that's an exact quote from his email, that's why I added the Actual Time from his email.

     
  42. Ghost Host

    Ghost Host Sr Member

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    The Fyberdyne may have come from Jeff, as Jeff used to make castings out of a really bad mold owned by another prop collector named "Roger", and clean them up and sell them finished. They had the impression of the cabinet latch on the forehead, which was supposedly attributed to the tour helmets. Not sure I'd call it Jeff's property though, any more than a Vadermaker would be. The Vadermaker master helmet was also out of Roger's funky mold. I personally cast it up with Roger's permission and started to clean it up. Eventually I gave up when I got a better one and gave it to my brother. Years later my brother sold it to Graham, who finished it up nicely.


     
  43. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    If you are referring to Roger S, the Helmet I have isn't from him,
    according to Greg.

     
  44. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    Impressive transformation....

    [​IMG]
     
  45. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    According to the guy who was originally thought to have done some clean-up on the helmet:
     
  46. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    Yes, it doesn't match up completely to the Fyberdyne (that IS what the one on the right is, right?), but neither does the GH as you so elegantly showed in the ANH Accurate thread long ago:
    post 12 on the page by SithLord
    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...c=104967&st=520

    Here are more pictures of the GH, that imo looks remarkably like this face, shown in this thread. Yes, they are some differenses, but to me they definitely come from the same family.

    Post 5 on the page by RKW
    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...c=104967&st=220

    Post 4 on the page by RKW
    Post 16 on the page by SithLord
    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...c=104967&st=140

    Post 6 on the page by Lordsandy
    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...c=104967&st=100

    Yeah, you get the picture... check out the thread for yourself... :p

    Sorry to bring that thread back up, but there were some excellent pictures posted in that topic, even though it almost derailed a few times.
     
  47. fettpride

    fettpride Well-Known Member

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    Dude, that wasn't pointed at you ... to be specific, it was Greg. I only meant that I was wanting to discuss your conversation with him further. It just pieves me when people change their stories at their own convenience. In Greg's case, he thinks he's a big shot, when in reality he's just an "uber geek" like the rest of us, with a little more money and a few more contacts :lol

    If you get a chance, shoot me an e-mail about it. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to let a dead dog lie on this one ...

    FP
     
  48. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    Well I can now add this helmet to the ever growing list.

    So according to GH it all started with Roger's molds.

    1. Jeff uses these molds to sell helmets.

    Time passes.......

    2. Fyberdyne starts selling a helmet that looks incredibly similar to Roger's molds.

    Time passes.......

    3. GH then gets a helmet off Jeff which looks incredibly like a cleaned up version of what Jeff first offered and starts making copies to sell.

    Time passes.......

    4. Gino receives a casting from Jeff that looks mysteriously like a cleaned up version of what GH first received from Jeff. Now has a thicker uniform mouth.

    Time passes.......

    5. Finally Propsculpter receives a helmet which resembles Gino's but has had some more work done to it. The position of the finger nail slot on the cheek has been altered.

    [​IMG]

    But the one physical attribute that all these faceplates still share because it would be virtually impossible to fix is that the teeth are angled incorrectly to the right (left when looking at the pic).
     
  49. zorg

    zorg Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    my head hurts :confused
     
  50. lambotour

    lambotour Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    So I guess we'll call this one the ANH Mystery Helmet ? :confused
     
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