I think I'd have to give it to Love & Monsters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_&_Monsters
Or Daleks in Manhattan. DIM was so bad I was put off the series for a while. :lol
New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*
- Thread starter silverskyes402
- Start date
I think I'd have to give it to Love & Monsters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_&_Monsters
Or Daleks in Manhattan. DIM was so bad I was put off the series for a while. :lol
Yep... those are pretty bad... the other one for me was the space train one from (new) Series 4...
But to play Devil's advocate here for all of the NuWho grumblings, there have been some really, really good episodes; and I would argue that the good ones out number the bad ones... "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances", "Silence in the Library/"Forest of the Dead", "Blink", "Zero Hour" and "The Doctor's Wife" are a few of my personal favourites...
Solo4114
Master Member
Are you kidding? I LOVE Love and Monsters! It's ridiculous, but I really enjoy it. Particularly for the effective use of ELO. 
I could probably go back and review past episodes, but my issue is less with individual bad episodes, and more with weak overall stories. I always find the show entertaining, too, even when it's not a favorite episode, so it's tough to call it awful. Particularly when I've been damn near unable to make it through episodes from the old series.
I could probably go back and review past episodes, but my issue is less with individual bad episodes, and more with weak overall stories. I always find the show entertaining, too, even when it's not a favorite episode, so it's tough to call it awful. Particularly when I've been damn near unable to make it through episodes from the old series.
No argument from me there! :thumbsup
- - - Updated - - -
Are you kidding? I LOVE Love and Monsters! It's ridiculous, but I really enjoy it. Particularly for the effective use of ELO.
They really lost me when they indicated that buddy and the patio stone had a sex life... :lol
Solo4114
Master Member
Noeland
Master Member
I enjoyed the first episode with Capaldi. I have to admit on a show like Doctor Who where you have some of the most outlandish silliness happening every week, the size of the dinosaur never even mattered to me. Didn't even cross my mind. The creature swallowing the Tardis whole, again, this is a show with giant spider people and cats who are nurses, and a giant brown head named The Face of Bo. I just sat back and enjoyed Capaldi riffing on his eyebrows and where he'd seen the face before, which I thought was hilarious.
The only bit that bothered me was The Impossible Girl, who knows that is who she is, and why, having trouble adjusting to a new Doctor after she's saved him, and seen all his past faces. I get why they did it. Heck, they drove that into the ground, the why, but it just didn't ring true to her character for me. That was hardly enough to ruin my enjoyment though at seeing a new Doctor in action. Matt Smith was never my favorite and I welcome 12, or 2, or whatever number he is now with the new set of regenerations. If that's what happened.
The only bit that bothered me was The Impossible Girl, who knows that is who she is, and why, having trouble adjusting to a new Doctor after she's saved him, and seen all his past faces. I get why they did it. Heck, they drove that into the ground, the why, but it just didn't ring true to her character for me. That was hardly enough to ruin my enjoyment though at seeing a new Doctor in action. Matt Smith was never my favorite and I welcome 12, or 2, or whatever number he is now with the new set of regenerations. If that's what happened.
JoblessPunk
Well-Known Member
I have to go back and watch the episode again, but in the very beginning I remember a 2 sentience conversation with Jenny Flint and Vastra that "cleared up" the size of the dinosaur. Jenny Flint commented on the dinosaur being too big and Vastra replied with something along the lines of she lived with the dinosaurs and knows how big they actually were.
Either way, the I agree with most saying the episode was "meh", but I feel like it can be great. If you remember the scene when The Doctor was in a night gown digging through the garbage, his interaction with the bum IMO was the true new doctor shining through, and it was great!
Either way, the I agree with most saying the episode was "meh", but I feel like it can be great. If you remember the scene when The Doctor was in a night gown digging through the garbage, his interaction with the bum IMO was the true new doctor shining through, and it was great!
firesprite
Master Member
I wasn't thrilled with this episode. I think Capaldi will be a good Doctor, but I'm really not keen on the writing in the episode... the very end especially.
We've spent an entire episode with the Doctor acting like a sundowning Alzheimer's patient and being generally horrible to just about everyone and rather than the writers actually making the effort to give us something from him to make Clara (and us by extension) interested in continuing the journey with him, they trot out Matt Smith and have poor, dying Eleven tell Clara (and us) that if she (and we) don't accept dotty old grampa Doctor, we're just being ****ty and shallow.
Honestly, it wouldn't have taken much to get me curious about him (there were flashes of brilliance in the writing such as 'frowned me this face'). A flash of wisdom or compassion... SOMETHING to make you think 'okay, maybe this guy isn't a complete jerkface' and I'd have been much happier as a viewer.
Of course, it probably didn't help that shortly thereafter, BBC America aired my all-time favorite episode Vincent and the Doctor so my memory of the episode became yet shabbier as a result...
We've spent an entire episode with the Doctor acting like a sundowning Alzheimer's patient and being generally horrible to just about everyone and rather than the writers actually making the effort to give us something from him to make Clara (and us by extension) interested in continuing the journey with him, they trot out Matt Smith and have poor, dying Eleven tell Clara (and us) that if she (and we) don't accept dotty old grampa Doctor, we're just being ****ty and shallow.
Honestly, it wouldn't have taken much to get me curious about him (there were flashes of brilliance in the writing such as 'frowned me this face'). A flash of wisdom or compassion... SOMETHING to make you think 'okay, maybe this guy isn't a complete jerkface' and I'd have been much happier as a viewer.
Of course, it probably didn't help that shortly thereafter, BBC America aired my all-time favorite episode Vincent and the Doctor so my memory of the episode became yet shabbier as a result...
Riceball
Master Member
If that's true then I guess that in the Whoniverse the Godzilla sized dinos never fossilized because the largest T-Rexes we've found are around 40' long and 20' tall, give or take and the larger predators like Spinosaurus and Giganotasaurus were only larger by a foot or two; even the largest sauropods were never even close to Big Ben sized.
Mola Rob
Sr Member
I have no doubt Capaldi will evolve into a good Doctor we just have to give him the chance to grow into the role as all the actors have (mostly) done in the past. I ignore the knee jerk reactions from people proclaiming he is a horrible Doctor after one whole episode has been aired. I'm amazed at the constant repetition and the near instantaneous negative reaction by some fans whenever a new Doctor, or companion, or Tardis interior, or whatever is introduced. Look at the past people it takes time to get used to someone or something new and it takes the cast and writers time to work out the kinks. Give it a chance, change is an integral part of the show.
That being said I thought it was an acceptable episode, nothing spectacular but nothing horrendous either. I love Clara, I have no problem with Strax and the gang. There were some terrific moments and some good dialogue. Where it gets into trouble is Moffat and his total inability to know when enough is enough and his need to throw in so many story elements. The dinosaur was totally unneeded, it was superfluous and added nothing to the story. If someone could work with Moffat and slice 20 to 35 percent of his ideas out and streamline the flow and focus of an episode it would make me very happy.
That being said I thought it was an acceptable episode, nothing spectacular but nothing horrendous either. I love Clara, I have no problem with Strax and the gang. There were some terrific moments and some good dialogue. Where it gets into trouble is Moffat and his total inability to know when enough is enough and his need to throw in so many story elements. The dinosaur was totally unneeded, it was superfluous and added nothing to the story. If someone could work with Moffat and slice 20 to 35 percent of his ideas out and streamline the flow and focus of an episode it would make me very happy.
The whole "Transalore will be the end of the Doctor" could have been done SO much better though. Drives me nuts that they felt that they had to wrap that up instead of way further down the line with Capaldi.
It's like the River Song thing. "The Doctor I know is MUCH older" and then they meet again in his next regen which isn't much older at all!
So many missed opportunities.
Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk 2
Solo4114
Master Member
Yeah, but that's Moffat for you. As a long-term plotter, he's pretty weak. His season-long arcs often end up feeling poorly executed, particularly at the end. And the Trenzalore thing, even if they wanted to resolve it with Smith, even if they wanted to reset all the regenerations, could still have been executed much better.
Personally, I wonder how much of it stems from Moffat trying to run both Doctor Who and Sherlock, and suffering from "Screw it, I'll figure it out later"-itis. Like, he just can't be arsed to solve the problems he sets for himself in advance, or to the extent he does, he solves them with basically some sort of slapdash solution.
It always ends up feeling good. He's very good at evoking emotions. But the problem is that it all too often doesn't make sense, or just seems too "busy."
The dinosaur in this episode, for example, seemed....pointless, really. Like, why bother? Was there not enough going on in the episode as it is that you ALSO had to throw in yet more question marks like "Wait, but why is there a dinosaur? How'd that happen? And why is it huge?" And do you have to answer those questions with "HAHAHAHAHA WHO KNOWS!??! IT'S DOCTOR WHO, PEOPLE!! RULES HAVE NO MEANING!!!!! Anyway, now it's on fire and we can focus on our REAL story which is about robots from a spaceship who steal human parts to try to build a new spaceship and they're religious, too."
Sometimes it ends up feeling like Moffat's season-long story arcs could be told by an out-of-breath five-year-old telling a stream of consciousness story.
Angelus Lupus
Sr Member
Replace Moffat, let him concentrate on giving us more Sherlock, and get some fresh ideas/new creative folks to run the show.
Anyone got any suggestions for who the BBC should hand Who over to?
Anyone got any suggestions for who the BBC should hand Who over to?
Neil Cross.
Size not withstanding, I felt the dinosaur was a necessary plot point to establish that the Clockwork Droids have been here for centuries, & at some point, using the dino parts just as they're using human parts now.
My only problem with the Paternoster gang, is that to involve them, at least part of the story gets stuck in the Victorian setting. I'm a big fan of the time, but story-wise, it seems too limiting or forces certain elements into the plot that weaken it.
With Girl in thw Fireplace being one of my top 3 favorite DW stories, I'm really hoping that whatever this payoff will be, strengthens that story without ruining the emotional impact that it had. I can see Moff establishing the reason behind the Madame Du Pompador's droids doing their thing, was to in fact reach the same promised land.
Just as a last side note, if anyone missed BBCA's after show, Gatiss was on & when asked about Missy & where or what the promised land was, He responded, "Well, where did Mary Poppins go?". I myself have never seen Mary Poppins, so I have no idea if this was an actual hint, or just a cheeky answer.
Last edited:
I don't usually dip my oar into this neck of the forum but right now I'm still so stunned by how awful Deep Breath was I just have to. I could not agree more with the points made by Solo4114, Firesprite, Michael Bergeron, et al, about everything that is WRONG with this train wreck of an episode.
The only thing I would add is what the HELL have they done to the Theme tune???!! I guess "shrill, screeching, mess" is the tone they want to set for the new series so it matched the episode pretty well.
Mr Capaldi is more than capable of handling the role of that I have no doubt. My question is will he, like Sylvester McCoy and Colin Baker before him, be an excellent Doctor let down by the writing. So far, I will hope for the best and expect more of the same.
The only thing I would add is what the HELL have they done to the Theme tune???!! I guess "shrill, screeching, mess" is the tone they want to set for the new series so it matched the episode pretty well.
Mr Capaldi is more than capable of handling the role of that I have no doubt. My question is will he, like Sylvester McCoy and Colin Baker before him, be an excellent Doctor let down by the writing. So far, I will hope for the best and expect more of the same.
Solo4114
Master Member
I had a similar concern with my recollection of Colin Baker's run, too. The writers simply had no idea what to do with him, and instead defaulted to some version of his behavior immediately after regeneration.
One of the most brilliant aspects of this conceit of the show is that it allows both writers and actors to ease their way into the Doctor character in a way that's explainable within the context of the story. You can simply say "Well, he's still figuring himself out, isn't he?"
Anyway, I'm hoping he isn't just "The grumpy Doctor" and has more depth to him. Although that moment where he poured the robot a drink...yeah, that left me thinking that we'll be seeing (or at least I'm hoping we see) more of THAT Doctor.
One of the most brilliant aspects of this conceit of the show is that it allows both writers and actors to ease their way into the Doctor character in a way that's explainable within the context of the story. You can simply say "Well, he's still figuring himself out, isn't he?"
Anyway, I'm hoping he isn't just "The grumpy Doctor" and has more depth to him. Although that moment where he poured the robot a drink...yeah, that left me thinking that we'll be seeing (or at least I'm hoping we see) more of THAT Doctor.
Agree. It still bugs me that Colin Baker wasn't given anything to work with. He could have been absolutely fantastic.
Similar threads
