New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*

[Solo4114]

Totally agree. Not a fan of the season arcs. They just serve to take away from the individual episodes IMO.

I like that the Doctor seems done with the Tennant "I'm so sorry" shtick. Loved the response to "My brother is dead"... "And his sister is alive. You're welcome."

This Doctor is a no nonsense bad ass. I like that a lot.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk 2

Yep. That and the "He was dead already! I'm trying to keep the rest of us alive!" thing. Great stuff, and nice to see him less soppy than before. That's not to say I didn't enjoy the soppy parts in the past, but...we did that already. Let's change it up some. That's the beauty of Doctor Who -- you can reinvent the ENTIRE show with each regeneration, if you want.

 

[glunark]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29068551

What do you make of this?

 

[Michael Bergeron]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29068551

What do you make of this?

Although it isn't something that would even cross my mind it's probably the right call with everything going on right now. People get worked up about that type of thing whether there's a link or not. It also gives them an additional bonus feature for the bluray.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk 2

 

[Solo4114]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29068551

What do you make of this?

All shows do this, really.

The premiere of 24 was released several months late due to the 9/11 attacks. The Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Earshot" was also released late in the wake of the Columbine shootings. Other shows get scenes edited, etc. It happens. They usually release the full version on the discs. I think it makes sense. I mean, while I wouldn't personally be bothered, Doctor Who has a LONG history of dealing with people who have nothing better to do with their time than catalogue its transgressions against decency and write letters to the BBC to complain about it. I mean, that stuff's been going on back to the earliest days of the show.

My guess is they edit the scene slightly so you don't see the actual cut or circuitry or whatever, but you get the reactions.

 

[Kerr Avon]

Capaldi's Doctor is cold. Very cold. I like the change. It's disconcerting, but I'm interested in seeing where this goes. Also, did he get an answer to his question on why he regenerated into a facsimile of the Roman he saved?

While I agree the Dalek rehashed certain plot elements from earlier seasons, I liked the fact that the Doctor's personality was very different this time around and seeing it from a more intolerant, essentially bigoted perspective.

 

[Solo4114]

Capaldi's Doctor is cold. Very cold. I like the change. It's disconcerting, but I'm interested in seeing where this goes. Also, did he get an answer to his question on why he regenerated into a facsimile of the Roman he saved?

I wouldn't necessarily count Capaldi's previous appearance on the show as the person the Doctor regenerated to resemble. I mean, yeah, it could end up that way, but I wouldn't put it past them to say that this face was his old school teacher or whatever. Doctor Who has had other examples of Doctors having been played by other actors, or actors reappearing in different roles (without an in-universe explanation, I mean).

While I agree the Dalek rehashed certain plot elements from earlier seasons, I liked the fact that the Doctor's personality was very different this time around and seeing it from a more intolerant, essentially bigoted perspective.

Was he truly bigoted, though, or more just...I dunno...allowing the entirety of his experience to not overwhelm his positivity?

Actually, that's one of the few moments in the show that I found sort of incongruous. Like, one minute he's saying "You don't understand. They're all EVIL," and then Clara slaps him and he says "Oh, wait. Maybe we can save this one." And then the one he saves proves that it's still a genocidal maniac, just one pointing the gun in a direction that benefits the Doctor and his companions.

So, what's the story? Is he wrong in his initial assessment? Is he supposed to be a perpetual optimist after every single encounter with the Daleks has proven to him that they are insane, genocidal creatures? I dunno. To me, that seems...more in keeping with the "childish" versions of the Doctor we've seen in 10 and 11.

I'm actually finding Capaldi to be (so far) a nice balance between, say, the War Doctor, and 10/11. It's a welcome shift in the tone of the show and the character of the Doctor. I like there being a bit of hope left in the Doctor, but I also like that he has to struggle against his experiences to find it, and that at times, he's realistic enough to look at a situation and say something like "He was dead already. I'm trying to save the rest of us!"

I'm hoping that, ultimately, that side of him is what pushes Clara away, actually. I think it'd make sense.

 

[Kerr Avon]

Well he mentioned the face he regenerated into and said something along the lines of 'what am I trying to tell myself' in the first episode. I'm not saying there's a season wide arc about it, but is there any meaning to it at all? Like, the Roman from the Pompeii episode initially died in history. It took Donna laying down the law and telling him he's GOT to save someone before the Doctor saved him. Is he trying to tell himself he needs to remember to try to help people?

Yeah, here's something about it meaning something: http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013...nation-for-peter-capaldis-earlier-appearances

 

[Riceball]

I'm actually finding Capaldi to be (so far) a nice balance between, say, the War Doctor, and 10/11. It's a welcome shift in the tone of the show and the character of the Doctor.

Since you brought that up, it makes me wonder if Capaldi is going to get a catch phrase like 10/11 or are they going to move away from that to create a more somber Doctor?

 

[Solo4114]

Well he mentioned the face he regenerated into and said something along the lines of 'what am I trying to tell myself' in the first episode. I'm not saying there's a season wide arc about it, but is there any meaning to it at all? Like, the Roman from the Pompeii episode initially died in history. It took Donna laying down the law and telling him he's GOT to save someone before the Doctor saved him. Is he trying to tell himself he needs to remember to try to help people?

Yeah, here's something about it meaning something: http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013...nation-for-peter-capaldis-earlier-appearances

Right, but I'm saying that while it may be connected to the Roman in question, it might NOT be connected, too. Like, it might be a totally different character altogether. I don't think Moffat will feel like he has to obey the rules of what's been shown before. If he does, it'll be a first...

Since you brought that up, it makes me wonder if Capaldi is going to get a catch phrase like 10/11 or are they going to move away from that to create a more somber Doctor?

You know, I'd prefer a more somber Doctor. The catchphrases worked fine with the last two, and "Fantastic!" was fine for 9, but this one...I don't know that he needs a catchphrase. Again, that strikes me as sort of...juvenile.


What I keep coming back to is the character of the War Doctor, who takes 10 and 11 to task for gallivanting around like children. While I get that the War Doctor doesn't understand the burden with which they live, I think he's got a point. Their behavior is often childish. Probably by design -- so as to escape the weight of their pasts, and that weight was something that 9, 10, and 11 all conveyed quite well. But with 12...I dunno. To me, one of the big taglines in the season trailer was "I'm the Doctor. I've made many mistakes. It's about time I did something about that." In essence, taking responsibility for his behavior, and trying to generally be less afraid to "grow up." That's not to say he completely abandons any sense of fun and wackiness, but there's definitely a more serious quality to this Doctor than previous ones.

Frankly, if they don't use Capaldi this way, it'd be almost criminal. The guy can bring SUCH gravitas to a role that it'd be a dreadful waste of his ability to have him just become the "wacky uncle" Doctor, ya know?

 

[Riceball]

I hope that they don't have Capaldi's Doctor going around with too much gravitas even though he does do that very well, the problem with that comes from me having watched him on The Musketeers and playing a very stern and humorless Cardinal Richlieu and I'd like to see him as something besides a beardless Richlieu.

 

[JD]

Actually, I'll agree - the new Doctor is colder and I'll add that he's also a bit mean. I understand the want/need to get away from the previous two Doctors... at times, it seems that they've gone a little too far (and I wonder if that will cost fans). Only time will tell...

As far as comparing him to the War Doctor - I think Hurt's Doctor had a certain charm and despite having a heavy task, he still carried himself with an appealing charm - something I'm not quite sensing with a much more matter-of-fact and terse #12 (although, bringing Clara coffee seemed much more fun than I expected).

Not saying I don't like him - heck, outside of last years specials this is the most consecutive Doctor Who I've watched first run since the 80s. It will be interesting and hopefully fun to see how this new Doctor develops.

...and what's up with the hand gestures?

 

[Solo4114]

I hope that they don't have Capaldi's Doctor going around with too much gravitas even though he does do that very well, the problem with that comes from me having watched him on The Musketeers and playing a very stern and humorless Cardinal Richlieu and I'd like to see him as something besides a beardless Richlieu.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying they should make him totally grim. To me, that's not in keeping with the character of the show itself. But I think they should continue to play with this more...sober, adult side of the Doctor. I guess that's really what I'm looking for: less of a kid, more of an adult. Capable of loosening up, but also ready to be responsible.

 

[Riceball]

...and what's up with the hand gestures?

Maybe that will be the 12th's thing, instead of a catch phrase he's just use interesting hand gestures.

 

[Kerr Avon]

And coldly watching people die and doing very little to help.

 

[glunark]

Not a bad episode, a few lols, not too serious.

Cant tell where the decapitation should have been, as it certainly didn't seem to be part of the Robin/Sheriff fight as we were lead to believe.

And we already saw the robots head come off.

 

[Deric]

I liked this one except the last little bit to get the needed "boost'. It was a fun episode, my son and I were cracking up at the Doctors banter.

 

[Angelus Lupus]

According to the Tardis wiki, the decapitation was in the Robin vs Sheriff fight. Apparently you can tell the cut because a tapestry behind The Doctor and Clara suddenly vanishes. I watched it again, and it's after this (then using the ropes to go up to the high beam) that the Sheriff starts talking about "the first of a new breed, half man, half engine, never ageing, never tiring" which suddenly makes a lot more sense (as does the fact he was able to reach his hands out of molten gold). Thing is, by removing the scene, they remove the reveal, so as far as the audience is concerned the Sheriff was human and Robin killed/murdered him by knocking him into the vat, which is a little darker than destroying a robot that just put its head back on..
On the other hand, if the Sheriff is a robot, then his story of lights in the sky, etc makes no sense.
I've confused myself... now I'm not sure if it works better with the Sheriff being a robot or human.

 

[glunark]

He was a human, the ship landed on him, the robots felt bad and rebuilt him.

This was all in the dialogue they cut.

 

[Angelus Lupus]

Ah, well then, that explains the "half-man" part.
Not sure why the robots would "feel bad" tho. And I'm hoping we don't get any more 'robots from the future crash in the past' It was interesting in The Girl in the Fireplace because they 'crashed' by punching a hole in time. It was less interesting in Deep Breath mainly for being a re-hash and partly because suddenly the sister ship of the first can move itself through time, whole. Now, again we have future robots in the past, and not for the first time impersonating knights in armour. Add to that the rebuilding the Sheriff seems entirely too reminiscent of Bracewell in Victory of the Daleks.
I'll re-iterate my personal opinion: Capaldi - Yay, Moffat - Nay. Same goes for Gatiss, the two of them should leave Who and concentrate on giving us more Sherlock.

 

[Knightjar]

Though that was an awful episode. The robots were nice but the plot was lazy and in danger of turning the Doctor into a figure of fun and so undoing all the interesting gravitas of the Capaldi incarnation. Interesting that he seem more fallible than the previous couple though.

God I hope they get rid of that bland smug sidekick soon but I fear we have more of her inane schoolteacher soap opera to come.