New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*

[letmebestormy]

I dunno OB, your last few posts seem to be more of what you would do if you were the Doc. He's just not like that. With few exceptions he rarely crosses his own timeline and he seems to adhere to Gallifreyan mean time, at least he did when it was still around. i.e. #4 did mention about going back to check in on Leela and Andred but it seemed unlikely he was going to go back a few hours after he left. He just doesn't do that. And after School Reunion I'm not sure why he would ever want to go back and visit. That was sort of heartbreaking. Or once he found out the Brig was dead, why not hang up the phone and make the call a year before? Because that's not how it works with him.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

I dunno OB, your last few posts seem to be more of what you would do if you were the Doc. He's just not like that. With few exceptions he rarely crosses his own timeline and he seems to adhere to Gallifreyan mean time, at least he did when it was still around. i.e. #4 did mention about going back to check in on Leela and Andred but it seemed unlikely he was going to go back a few hours after he left. He just doesn't do that. And after School Reunion I'm not sure why he would ever want to go back and visit. That was sort of heartbreaking. Or once he found out the Brig was dead, why not hang up the phone and make the call a year before? Because that's not how it works with him.

True for the most part but with Susan in particular his parting words began with "One Day I Shall Come Back". I think if they ever decide to actually finish the series (I'd rather them not obviously) they should have him return to be with his family.

You're right though, in general he doesn't go back and visit... Except all the time with Amy & Rory & River. :lol

 

[timelordjedi777]

True for the most part but with Susan in particular his parting words began with "One Day I Shall Come Back". I think if they ever decide to actually finish the series (I'd rather them not obviously) they should have him return to be with his family.

You're right though, in general he doesn't go back and visit... Except all the time with Amy & Rory & River. :lol

I would love to see him go live with his family at the end. 50 more years from now. Even if he doesn't live with them they definitely have to have him visit.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

I would love to see him go live with his family at the end. 50 more years from now. Even if he doesn't live with them they definitely have to have him visit.

What family though? It's repeatedly pointed out that he's the last Time-lord, so aside from Jenny who would he live with? Wife's dead and the in-laws are gone after the next episode.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

What family though? It's repeatedly pointed out that he's the last Time-lord, so aside from Jenny who would he live with? Wife's dead and the in-laws are gone after the next episode.

And he's been repeatedly wrong.

We're talking about the Doctor's very first companion Susan (his granddaughter) whom he left to marry on a post Dalek invasion Earth.

Best "in show" lineage I can see is that Jenny goes off and has a child who is half Time Lord named Susan who then is somehow handed off to the first incarnation of the Doctor. Maybe that's why the Doctor is always vague about whether he has a family. He knows that he does (will have) but due to the timey-wimey stuff he only knows of his daughter whom he believes to be dead and his granddaughter. He knows the effect but not the cause.

 

[cboath]

Presumably there was a first wife as well along with either a son or daughter (how else do you get grandaughter?).

Obi wan was the last jedi, too. Well, except for Luke. Oh yeah, and yoda. And don't forget Leia....

There's never a way to know for certain. I do like that they've never turned it into a timelord of the week thing. But running into another or having another created somehow could be an interesting story line. To paraphrase Jurassic Park, nature always finds a way.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Presumably there was a first wife as well along with either a son or daughter (how else do you get grandaughter?).

Presumably yes. However by nature of time travel the best "in show" explanation thus far is that his daughter (via DNA copy) is Susan's mother.

I only use the shows themselves as canon so that's the way it could work in the show. Of course he had a life prior to the show but I've always seen beings that have an extremely long lifespan as being in "no rush" with their lives.

As far as when we first met the Doctor he was a relative child in Time Lord terms.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

All that said the original intention was clearly a prior relationship. I just think now after 50 years of story there are potentially more interesting explanations to explore. :thumbsup

 

[cboath]

I was going to say, the idea originated in 1963. They weren't going to have anything other that a normal method of getting him a granddaughter. You'd have thought they'd have said something in 2 years or so she was on.

 

[timelordjedi777]

Presumably yes. However by nature of time travel the best "in show" explanation thus far is that his daughter (via DNA copy) is Susan's mother.

I only use the shows themselves as canon so that's the way it could work in the show. Of course he had a life prior to the show but I've always seen beings that have an extremely long lifespan as being in "no rush" with their lives.

As far as when we first met the Doctor he was a relative child in Time Lord terms.

I thought that in the episode "The Doctors Daughter" He told Donna that he had children at one time. More correctly he told her "Donna I've been a father before. I lost all that a long time ago."

 

[Michael Bergeron]

I was going to say, the idea originated in 1963. They weren't going to have anything other that a normal method of getting him a granddaughter. You'd have thought they'd have said something in 2 years or so she was on.

The original intention was to have them not related actually. But in 1963 it was thought a bit too racy to have an old man and a young girl in a box together...

 

[Michael Bergeron]

I thought that in the episode "The Doctors Daughter" He told Donna that he had children at one time. More correctly he told her "Donna I've been a father before. I lost all that a long time ago."

I'll have to watch that episode again. I thought he said he had a "family" before.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

I thought that in the episode "The Doctors Daughter" He told Donna that he had children at one time. More correctly he told her "Donna I've been a father before. I lost all that a long time ago."

Was going to point that out but you beat me to it

I get that people don't like the idea of the Doctor "dancing" but it's a hell of a lot easier to just go with the idea that the Doctor had a kid who had Susan than to make Jenny into Susan's mother. I'd bet that in 1963 the intention was the relationship between One and Susan wasn't timey-whimey.

 

[AlexBC]

The new series especially has dropped hints of the Doctor having kids. In Fear Her he casually says he "was a dad once".

The Second Doctor mentioned his family. He says that they are long gone but that sometimes when he closes his eyes he can still see them. The implication there is that either they are separated by his exile or that they are possibly dead.

One thing that bugs me is the implication that ALL Gallifreyans are considered Time Lords. There were many Gallifreyans in the classic series that were not considered Time Lords.

I would guess that an in-universe explanation could be that Rassilon conferred Time Lord status on all non-TL's to further his plans during the Time War or that there was some genetic cleansing going on and he had all non-TLs killed.

 

[Rotwang]

Lots of Dr Who episodes have problems, but I did learn to accept all the errors quirks and mistakes, because unlike the excuses of a certain plaid-clad bearded fellow, the BBC does genuinely consider Dr Who to be a kid's show, except it's not written as if the target audience are imbeciles that should be talked down to.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Was going to point that out but you beat me to it

I get that people don't like the idea of the Doctor "dancing" but it's a hell of a lot easier to just go with the idea that the Doctor had a kid who had Susan than to make Jenny into Susan's mother. I'd bet that in 1963 the intention was the relationship between One and Susan wasn't timey-whimey.

I don't have a problem with the Doctor "dancing" with other Timelords back in the day. Just companions.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

I would guess that an in-universe explanation could be that Rassilon conferred Time Lord status on all non-TL's to further his plans during the Time War or that there was some genetic cleansing going on and he had all non-TLs killed.

Never heard that idea before. A "recruiting drive" of sorts would make some sense. Let everyone into the bubble as it were.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Lots of Dr Who episodes have problems, but I did learn to accept all the errors quirks and mistakes, because unlike the excuses of a certain plaid-clad bearded fellow, the BBC does genuinely consider Dr Who to be a kid's show, except it's not written as if the target audience are imbeciles that should be talked down to.

Too true. An intelligent kids show... Which I love. lol

 

[cboath]

Never heard that idea before. A "recruiting drive" of sorts would make some sense. Let everyone into the bubble as it were.

Speaking of that, after having finished McCoy now, what.where exactly is the explanation of Rassilon coming back? In the 20th anniversary special, he was dead and his tomb. Where/when exactly did he return to lead the time war and apparently Gallifrey as that was who Timothy Dalton protrayed in Tennant's finale'.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Speaking of that, after having finished McCoy now, what.where exactly is the explanation of Rassilon coming back? In the 20th anniversary special, he was dead and his tomb. Where/when exactly did he return to lead the time war and apparently Gallifrey as that was who Timothy Dalton protrayed in Tennant's finale'.

Um... Timey Wimey? lol

In truth he's the character probably worst hurt by lack of continuity.