JoeR
Sr Member
Exactly and Stephen L has held this next to his other originals. You have no idea of the correct colour, you asked me to clarify it for you:rolleyes
Is this passing off a replica trooper helmet as original?
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Exactly and Stephen L has held this next to his other originals. You have no idea of the correct colour, you asked me to clarify it for you:rolleyes
JoeR
Sr Member
If all lenses came from the same plastic yes.
I am not posting pictures, you are not impartial. I will send it to Stephen Lane and get him to confirm these details next to the two others. This is a biased witch hunt.
JoeR
Sr Member
Tell me about the tear detail tells Mr Expert...?
GINO
Sr Member
If you are looking for physical tells ie details in the formed pieces, that is useless. Anything cast from original will possess those same details.
All that will do is tell you it comes from something authentic, not that it is original.
Are your lenses a different color, is that why you don't want to post a pic of them?
.
All that will do is tell you it comes from something authentic, not that it is original.
Are your lenses a different color, is that why you don't want to post a pic of them?
.
GINO
Sr Member
Hey Joe,
While you are figuring out if you are going to post pics or not, can you respond to this comment you made?
I've asked twice now, I'm beginning to think you are purposely avoiding it.
5-7-08 from Joe
I am now in possession of the ESB Stormtrooper helmet. It is in a very poor state but unlike the Jedi helmet untouched.
Whatever you think of me I am an expert at tracking down ultra rare original props.....
Joe
We'll pick up tomorrow.
.
While you are figuring out if you are going to post pics or not, can you respond to this comment you made?
I've asked twice now, I'm beginning to think you are purposely avoiding it.
5-7-08 from Joe
I am now in possession of the ESB Stormtrooper helmet. It is in a very poor state but unlike the Jedi helmet untouched.
Whatever you think of me I am an expert at tracking down ultra rare original props.....
Joe
We'll pick up tomorrow.
.
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I was called out for baiting Gino in this thread:
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=49320
How is this thread any different? Gino is questioning the veracity of someone's claim, which is no different than when I questioned his own claims.
So I wonder, where are all those people from that thread that complained about motives and baiting?
Two words: double standard.
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=49320
How is this thread any different? Gino is questioning the veracity of someone's claim, which is no different than when I questioned his own claims.
So I wonder, where are all those people from that thread that complained about motives and baiting?
Two words: double standard.
voice in the crowd
Sr Member
For what it is worth I genuinely believe this IS a different screen helmet owned by Joe.
He has been trying to get it for some time and succeeded. His other original was sold to the Propstore of London.
The helmet Joe owned previously was moulded but no copies were ever made. The moulds were sent to a friend of mine but due to complications that arose due to the sale of the original. Also the size of his vac former could not do the cap anyway.
The moulds stayed with my friend a good while I could contact him to confirm the dates and the fact that nothing was done with them. When Joe sold the helmet on as part of the conditions of sale any plan of making copies were sadly lost which was part of a private agreement between him and the Propstore.
I have seen photographs of the inside of this new helmet and thoroughly believe it is real.
Gino seriously mate if you want to PM or email me for any confirmation of anything I have to say please feel free. I do not however want to discuss any private dealings between other people on public forums especially about the replication of unlicensed props. Hopefully we can clear a few things up about the old mould situation anyway.
Also if I was to make a fake I would have at least stuck on decals and painted the mout
Chris
He has been trying to get it for some time and succeeded. His other original was sold to the Propstore of London.
The helmet Joe owned previously was moulded but no copies were ever made. The moulds were sent to a friend of mine but due to complications that arose due to the sale of the original. Also the size of his vac former could not do the cap anyway.
The moulds stayed with my friend a good while I could contact him to confirm the dates and the fact that nothing was done with them. When Joe sold the helmet on as part of the conditions of sale any plan of making copies were sadly lost which was part of a private agreement between him and the Propstore.
I have seen photographs of the inside of this new helmet and thoroughly believe it is real.
Gino seriously mate if you want to PM or email me for any confirmation of anything I have to say please feel free. I do not however want to discuss any private dealings between other people on public forums especially about the replication of unlicensed props. Hopefully we can clear a few things up about the old mould situation anyway.
Also if I was to make a fake I would have at least stuck on decals and painted the mout
Chris
Then let's see the inside of the right tear of your own helmet...it should look like this...and therefore be cast from an original...because this is an original...
Star Wars Helmets
Sr Member
All,
Joe came round my house on Saturday with the helmet and I took the opportunity of examining it and documenting it as much as possible with countless photos and video footage.
Now to be clear on this I have consciously not gone on record as to whether I think this helmet is “Original” or not. Now that is not to cast any aspersions over it, however the road to authenticating an original prop is a long one and frankly after an hour and a half with this particular helmet is not long enough – hence the photos and video. Essentially, in my personal opinion, more work would be required if I was going to buy this helmet
The process I normally adopt when verifying a helmet consists of several strands. The initial examination I had was interesting since it showed that the helmet DID have a number the tells I was expecting from an original helmet. In addition it did NOT have some of the errors, mistakes and limitations that a replica helmet has.
However the fact that the helmet has no paint detailing – nor the very detailed and revealing decals – will clearly impinge on this process. In addition the presence of non-original mic tips (which Jo was very open about) also does not help the process. Again, this is not to cast doubt over the helmet but to try and explain the difficulties in authenticating what is essentially an “unfinished” prop – it is exponetially difficult.
I understand from Joe’s comments that he also has some historical provenance information from the helmets on-set previous owner at Elstree. I have not seen this information but would clearly find it interesting since it adds tremendous weight to the argument. I also suggested that he contact another RotJ helmet owner (who is also UK based) since getting the two side-by-side would be a tremendously useful, and interesting exercise.
Note that I have no financial interest in the helmet whatsoever, nor would I ever receive any payment for helping someone verify a helmets provenance. Like everyone here I want to ensure that we correctly identify “original” helmets and am happy to contribute my time and effort to this process. I therefore suggest that people commenting should stick to facts as much as possible and avoid circumstantal evidence and name-calling.
Cheers
Jez
Joe came round my house on Saturday with the helmet and I took the opportunity of examining it and documenting it as much as possible with countless photos and video footage.
Now to be clear on this I have consciously not gone on record as to whether I think this helmet is “Original” or not. Now that is not to cast any aspersions over it, however the road to authenticating an original prop is a long one and frankly after an hour and a half with this particular helmet is not long enough – hence the photos and video. Essentially, in my personal opinion, more work would be required if I was going to buy this helmet
The process I normally adopt when verifying a helmet consists of several strands. The initial examination I had was interesting since it showed that the helmet DID have a number the tells I was expecting from an original helmet. In addition it did NOT have some of the errors, mistakes and limitations that a replica helmet has.
However the fact that the helmet has no paint detailing – nor the very detailed and revealing decals – will clearly impinge on this process. In addition the presence of non-original mic tips (which Jo was very open about) also does not help the process. Again, this is not to cast doubt over the helmet but to try and explain the difficulties in authenticating what is essentially an “unfinished” prop – it is exponetially difficult.
I understand from Joe’s comments that he also has some historical provenance information from the helmets on-set previous owner at Elstree. I have not seen this information but would clearly find it interesting since it adds tremendous weight to the argument. I also suggested that he contact another RotJ helmet owner (who is also UK based) since getting the two side-by-side would be a tremendously useful, and interesting exercise.
Note that I have no financial interest in the helmet whatsoever, nor would I ever receive any payment for helping someone verify a helmets provenance. Like everyone here I want to ensure that we correctly identify “original” helmets and am happy to contribute my time and effort to this process. I therefore suggest that people commenting should stick to facts as much as possible and avoid circumstantal evidence and name-calling.
Cheers
Jez
yakcam
Sr Member
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Gino i got about a 10th of the way through post 51 can you clear something up for me ?
You said you weren't interested in making a deal with Joe for the earpiece on the last helmet he had unless you could be involved in the run of replicas he planned to make of the helmet because you didn't trust the person he had lined up to do them to do a decent job ?
Of course though this run never happened so where did this helmet you claim is a replica come from Gino ?
I mean you can't have it both ways by saying the other helmet was poorly restored and the guy who made forms made a mess of them but now suddenly from that mess we have this new helmet in next to perfect condition.
Really Gino it is sour grapes nothing more you wanted your name on the run of replicas on Joe's old helmet your deal fell through and you got arsey.
You said you weren't interested in making a deal with Joe for the earpiece on the last helmet he had unless you could be involved in the run of replicas he planned to make of the helmet because you didn't trust the person he had lined up to do them to do a decent job ?
Of course though this run never happened so where did this helmet you claim is a replica come from Gino ?
I mean you can't have it both ways by saying the other helmet was poorly restored and the guy who made forms made a mess of them but now suddenly from that mess we have this new helmet in next to perfect condition.
Really Gino it is sour grapes nothing more you wanted your name on the run of replicas on Joe's old helmet your deal fell through and you got arsey.
You have been proven wrong. To continue would be silly, you are only making yourself look silly here and wasting bandwith. Just stop while your words still hold water:confused. Free post #3
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Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
I don't think anyone has been proven right or wrong. Even Jez says the data is basically inconclusive one way or the other.
I agree with the intent of GINO's thread here. If someone comes out saying "Mine is screen used!", then he or she should expect to be called out on it. Are we supposed to blindly accept these things as holy writ because someone says so? I mean GINO's pieces have had some pretty good pics taken to back up his claims, especially when he offered up those three trooper helmets.
On the other hand though, if the guy is not offering to sell this piece...and let's hope he is true to his word...then this argument is a non-starter. I think GINO is bringing it to the radar because the guy HAS sold his pieces before.
How many times have people been duped into buying so called "screen used" pieces? If I were offering what I thought was a screen used piece, I would post some side by side comparisons and state why I thought so and so was screen used.
I agree with the intent of GINO's thread here. If someone comes out saying "Mine is screen used!", then he or she should expect to be called out on it. Are we supposed to blindly accept these things as holy writ because someone says so? I mean GINO's pieces have had some pretty good pics taken to back up his claims, especially when he offered up those three trooper helmets.
On the other hand though, if the guy is not offering to sell this piece...and let's hope he is true to his word...then this argument is a non-starter. I think GINO is bringing it to the radar because the guy HAS sold his pieces before.
How many times have people been duped into buying so called "screen used" pieces? If I were offering what I thought was a screen used piece, I would post some side by side comparisons and state why I thought so and so was screen used.
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Really ? well as Thomas said when he called Gino out over his claims that was jealousy and sour grapes can't have it both ways.
And i don't recall Gino ever sharing or posting pics in public of tells on any stuff he has claimed to be from an original source we are left to take his word for it.
And nobody well nobody with half an ounce of sense would ever buy a screen used piece as valuable as this without authentication and research.
If the item was for sale which it isn't i'm sure Joe would provide the buyer with all the background on it and let them examine it.
And please dont try and tell me Gino bought this up as some form of crusade to protect his fellow collectors.
Gino doesn't care about anyone or anything unless there is something in it for Gino as he has demonstrated time and time again in the past.
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