Is this passing off a replica trooper helmet as original?

[Prop Store]

Interesting, I wonder what else is replica on that helmet.

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Just the mic tips.

Stephen

 

[JoeR]

Thank you Stephen I appreciate your post.

Apology?

Can we stop the character assassination now?

Joe

 

[GINO]

Did you think that Stephen's word would alone be enough?
Is that what you were waiting for?

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[Tim Allen]

:rolleyes

The mic tips are replicas for display added bythe previous owner.

I will not post pics anywhere that Gino might get hold of them. I am happy to privately send pictures to someone like Brandon Alinger for analysis.

This is a silly witch hunt fuled by jealously.

I spent hours with Jez who has handled over ten helmets, and he and I went through every 'tell' on the helmet. Gino has handled none nor provided any proof nor one point that proves this is a replica.

All this BS will be over very shortly...

Then you must have known this was going to a debacle if you didnt post any clean cut photo's or show anymore proof along with those photos you posted? Im not for nor against you in this thread but it just seems stupidity that you didnt get all your info and the "tell tale" signs you guys went through. You basically opened the flood gates and cryed foul because of this. If I were you I would have Jez or whomever went through the helmet with you and back you up your info immediately with some valid photo's or something

 

[JoeR]

I wanted to share the find with the community, more fool me. I won't be doing that again.

An expert who owns originals has commented on the fact this is original, yet Gino still won't accept it, I am done trying to prove anything.

Joe

 

[Tim Allen]

I wanted to share the find with the community, more fool me. I won't be doing that again.

An expert who owns originals has commented on the fact this is original, yet Gino still won't accept it, I am done trying to prove anything.

Joe

All im saying is you need this "expert" to speak up on your behalf to make it creditable. Thats all......untill then its he said she said song and dance

 

[GINO]

Sorry Joe, but you'll have to excuse me when I say I don't respect Steven's opinion on the matter.
He certainly is not an expert on SW props.

So does that mean you have no plans to show pics of those areas I spoke of a few posts back (minus the mic tips since you said they were replica)?

You know I already know those specific areas very well, so what's the harm. You think you're going to accidentally reveal something to me that I didn't already know?

You don't have to post them publicly, you can email them to me. I swear I'll be honest in my review.

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[JoeR]

This has got way out of hand.

I will say that the interior matches exactly, known original helmets, ones with LOAs from Lucasfilm.

I am done with this, how you can think you know more than someone who owns multiple originals, WHEN YOU HAVE EVEN NEVER HANDLED AN ORIGINAL YOURSELF IS BEYOND A JOKE!

You are deluded, and obsessed, in a very dark, negative and nasty way....

Joe

 

[GINO]

I am done with this, how you can think you know more than someone who owns multiple originals, WHEN YOU HAVE EVEN NEVER HANDLED AN ORIGINAL YOURSELF IS BEYOND A JOKE!

You would be surprised, shocked even.

So why not pony up? All I'm asking for is two pics.

One good pic of the inside surface of the plastic, and a good shot of the color of the lenses.

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[Art Andrews]

I am done with this, how you can think you know more than someone who owns multiple originals, WHEN YOU HAVE EVEN NEVER HANDLED AN ORIGINAL YOURSELF IS BEYOND A JOKE!

And so instead of actually posting pics and PROVING Gino wrong and making him look a fool in front of the entire RPF, you are going to slink away with that as your reasoning and proof?

 

[JoeR]

And so instead of actually posting pics and PROVING Gino wrong to the entire RPF, you are going to slink away with that as your reasoning and proof?

As he has never seen one in the flesh, how would he know what he is looking at is authentic?

I will happily show pictures when I feel like it, I won't be bullied by this horrible little person. Nice comments BTW ART, condsiering we have never spoken.

What pics exactly do people want?

Joe

 

[GINO]

As he has never seen one in the flesh, how would he know what he is looking at is authentic?

I've got some pretty nifty photo reference. Stuff that I have no problem posting after you post yours.

What pics exactly do people want?

One good pic of the inside surface of the plastic, and a good shot of the color of the lenses.

Remember, the physical forms of the plastic will be the same. In this case, the proof is in the materials.

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[GINO]

In the meantime Joe,
Would you care to comment on the following made by you.


5-7-08 from Joe
I am now in possession of the ESB Stormtrooper helmet. It is in a very poor state but unlike the Jedi helmet untouched.
Whatever you think of me I am an expert at tracking down ultra rare original props.....
Joe


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[Clutch]

Are you saying that the one on the right is a casting of the one on the left?

 

[GINO]

Not the earcaps.

Just because one is more squished looking or the eyes are trimmed differently has no bearing.

.

 

[confusion]

In the spirit of sharing, I'd love to see any photos either one of you would feel comfortable posting.

 

[SithLord]

I'm going to point out a couple of things here. Gino's collection of PM's taken by themselves prove nothing and he injects so many assumptions among them without proof nor photographic evidence to back it up.

He states this new helmet is not original, but does nothing to show how it is supposed to come from the previous helmet Joe owned, nor what tells indicate it as such.

This sort of character attack is no different than when Gino attacked Ghosthost as being a recaster with stories about Jeff W not giving permission to Ghosthost for making copies of "his" helmet when Jeff was just a go-between.

And more recently, Gino discredits the TM ESB helmet:

Originally Posted by godaiking
And here's a TM ESB vader, which is casted off an actual ESB helmet.

This is absolutely not the case. An actual ESB helmet would have had the chin vent cut away and had the flange attached to the top of the faceplate. The TM chin vent was not cut out and had no such flange.
I do not believe that the TM helmet is an actual ESB helmet or even made during the time of the films. There are multiple sources out there for authentic castings (as lots have been made over the years) and there is no way to distinguish between a screen used, production made, or a piece made a month ago without all the detailing and finishing accessories used on the screen used pieces. Anyone who says differently just doesn't know any better.
I feel it is a lot of wishful thinking on the part of the people who own that helmet to say it is anything but an authentic cast that had aspects resculpted by hand no less.
I'm only speaking up because of the above statement, and it sucks to see incorrect info repeated so much that they become community "truths".

Not only does Gino not realize that the Paul Allen original ESB Vader stunt helmet has the mounting flange attached to it (not part of the casting), he thinks that the only way to tell if something is original are things like paint or finishing bits (what...tusks? grills? come on). So he questions someone (TM) who has been to the LFL archives himself and handled original Vader helmets and masks, when he has never handled an original Vader helmet. That doesn't prove the TM is original, but Gino's argument to the contrary patently makes no sense, especially when there is an onset photograph of Kenny Baker with an original Vader helmet on his head that has an ANH chin vent, clearly indicating that the template for ESB helmets was likely a derivative of the original ANH helmet.

And on top of all of that, when I started a thread to demonstrate that Gino's own ANH Vader cannot be "cast from screen original or from the original production molds", and could clearly show it was the case, the thread was locked. This thread is no different.

Gino claims to know all these mysterious collectors with original stormtrooper and Vader helmets....yet none of them come forward in his defense....ever. And his own helmets....the TKs derived from TE sources (which it seems he refuses to discuss on his own forum), and his Vader helmets which just look like any run-of-the-mill fanmade replicas, belie his lack of exclusive source material of which he provides no information or proof himself.

Yet he continues to question the experience and knowledge of people who have extensive experience with original Star Wars helmets, have been to the archives, or have worked for LFL.

I'd like to know more about this new ROTJ helmet, as much as anyone else, but there are better ways of going about questioning what it is. All it is from what I can see is an attack on Joe's integrity.

 

[JoeR]

I have a post ready but I am concerned about two points:

Once we show pics anyone the tells are revealed to all and sundry.

Gino is not impartial at all.

Joe

 

[JoeR]

Thank you Thomas.

I am happy to email pictures to Brandon, who I believe would be impartial.

Joe

 

[GINO]

These tells are hardly very secret, but do go a long way.
For example, the color of the lenses is extremely difficult to replicate.

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