Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
- Thread starter Jintosh
- Start date
Ya'll are probably right, of course and who knows maybe the film had a few different models.
My confirmation bias came in that as I attempted to make early prototypes that were small (200mm), the relative sizes of the components became a problem. The scale forced some (plastic) parts to be flimsy relative to the rest of the assembly, so I started scaling up until it "seemed" right and more substantive.. But I'll happily admit feelings are measurements.
Although, I never really took it as gospel that the Disney World prop that's made from different materials than the film prop(s) by local (Florida) prop masters would necessarily have to match the film prop's actual dimensions. I assumed it was a good source for the overall relative sizes and distances and that it would be a good source for the glyph layout, etc.
I'll share this image from my references folder, it was sent to me by a fan at the US Premiere.
This photo: Every Velvet-rope post at theaters near me have at least a 14" base. I drove around to measure them all. Could be forced-perspective trickery but the size of the base of the rope-post in this shot and this film-model would mean the base isn't 14" or the film model isn't 8".
If this film model is 8" tall, that would (probably) make the rope base 10-11" and the placard 5x7 and not 8x10, which yep could be the case.
I suspect there may be multiple right answers because of multiple reference props but time will tell.
All that said, its really quite impressive that he's been able to make functional prototypes out of the 8" scale and the 8" size is going to work great on your buyers' shelves.
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Kukulcan
Well-Known Member
I checked post 136 and compared those screencap measurements with my own fingers. Being 6‘2“ my hands are not huge but sure not small compared to an average male. I ended up with 5“, not 6“ for the sides lengths, which brings the total width closer to 8“ than 10“.
graffitilogic - did you set up that photo from the premiere in your 3D software so you are able to compare the rope post size to the dial? I would find it quite hard to estimate the distance between display box and rope post.
graffitilogic - did you set up that photo from the premiere in your 3D software so you are able to compare the rope post size to the dial? I would find it quite hard to estimate the distance between display box and rope post.
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The app I used, Shapr3d, didn't have a good photogrammetry input method and one app that I used did output some pretty nonsensical estimates. My sizing admittedly was a bit less scientific. I met someone that went to the premiere, printed him 4 or 5 different sizes - and got his input from recollection and photos from his phone.
He felt like the 248mm x 284mm x 48.6mm build size more closely fit what he saw in the case.
After watching the movie and special features a few times, I've been building them at a ~240x210x41mm size basis and it definitely "feels" like a better size in relation to a common adult hand and more importantly the messenger bag.
I'd love it if a definitive size was settled upon by smart folk, though.
I think I have a biased favored theory here that it is a lot like the Grail, there were probably multiple sizes and multiple props. A hero prop and some stunt props. That bias is that the DisneyWorld prop is a little too small as compared to the stunt props and that the premiere pop is too large and probably only used in hero shots when the Dial was halved. The motorized, clear acryllic Dial was definitely smaller than the prop at the Premiere, which I assume was Wilkinson's hero prop.
Around Halloween I pretty much switched over to the smaller build size. Coincidentally when I sent this 210mm resin build to the same person that attended the premiere he still felt it was smaller than the premiere display but right for the on-screen prop.
Apologies, I'm aware feelings aren't measurement!
When I settled on 210mm as a basis for the smaller / regular sized dial I based that on the average size of two german pocket-watch style compasses that I had and used the compass diameter to scale the rest.
I think the measurements of the Disney World prop earlier in the thread also support a smaller size but I think it may be a little small.
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Darthbauer
Active Member
Your dial is beautiful, I hope to own one one day when I’ve done buying all the grail diariesThe app I used, Shapr3d, didn't have a good photogrammetry input method and one app that I used did output some pretty nonsensical estimates. My sizing admittedly was a bit less scientific. I met someone that went to the premiere, printed him 4 or 5 different sizes - and got his input from recollection and photos from his phone.
He felt like the 248mm x 284mm x 48.6mm build size more closely fit what he saw in the case.
After watching the movie and special features a few times, I've been building them at a ~240x210x41mm size basis and it definitely "feels" like a better size in relation to a common adult hand and more importantly the messenger bag.
I'd love it if a definitive size was settled upon by smart folk, though.
I think I have a biased favored theory here that it is a lot like the Grail, there were probably multiple sizes and multiple props. A hero prop and some stunt props. That bias is that the DisneyWorld prop is a little too small as compared to the stunt props and that the premiere pop is too large and probably only used in hero shots when the Dial was halved. The motorized, clear acryllic Dial was definitely smaller than the prop at the Premiere, which I assume was Wilkinson's hero prop.
View attachment 1782077
View attachment 1782078
Around Halloween I pretty much switched over to the smaller build size. Coincidentally when I sent this 210mm resin build to the same person that attended the premiere he still felt it was smaller than the premiere display but right for the on-screen prop.
Apologies, I'm aware feelings aren't measurement!
When I settled on 210mm as a basis for the smaller / regular sized dial I based that on the average size of two german pocket-watch style compasses that I had and used the compass diameter to scale the rest.
I think the measurements of the Disney World prop earlier in the thread also support a smaller size but I think it may be a little small.
Kukulcan
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the comprehensive explanation.The app I used, Shapr3d, didn't have a good photogrammetry input method and one app that I used did output some pretty nonsensical estimates. My sizing admittedly was a bit less scientific. I met someone that went to the premiere, printed him 4 or 5 different sizes - and got his input from recollection and photos from his phone.
He felt like the 248mm x 284mm x 48.6mm build size more closely fit what he saw in the case.
After watching the movie and special features a few times, I've been building them at a ~240x210x41mm size basis and it definitely "feels" like a better size in relation to a common adult hand and more importantly the messenger bag.
I'd love it if a definitive size was settled upon by smart folk, though.
I think I have a biased favored theory here that it is a lot like the Grail, there were probably multiple sizes and multiple props. A hero prop and some stunt props. That bias is that the DisneyWorld prop is a little too small as compared to the stunt props and that the premiere pop is too large and probably only used in hero shots when the Dial was halved. The motorized, clear acryllic Dial was definitely smaller than the prop at the Premiere, which I assume was Wilkinson's hero prop.
View attachment 1782077
View attachment 1782078
Around Halloween I pretty much switched over to the smaller build size. Coincidentally when I sent this 210mm resin build to the same person that attended the premiere he still felt it was smaller than the premiere display but right for the on-screen prop.
Apologies, I'm aware feelings aren't measurement!
When I settled on 210mm as a basis for the smaller / regular sized dial I based that on the average size of two german pocket-watch style compasses that I had and used the compass diameter to scale the rest.
I think the measurements of the Disney World prop earlier in the thread also support a smaller size but I think it may be a little small.
I used this, where the hand is roughly at the same distance from the camera. On my hands (which seem to be pretty average) the distance between knuckle and first joint is like 5.5cm for index finder and 6cm for middle finger. Based on that and doing the same on the screencaps as well as the prop promo video the result is pretty consistent at 5" for the sides' lengths and a resulting good 9" for the height.
That would make the inner display height roughly 18" which also fits with my measurement of about 45cm from waist to roughly the position of the display upper egde meeting his chest. He is 4" or roughly 5% smaller than me.
Using his eye distance and comparing it to the height of the display, it would be a max. of 18" for the display height, with an 14" as a minimum and 16" for an average eye distance. 16" is also the number if I take an average head width of 6". That points to the dial not being (much) higher that 8".
Completely unscientific, but maybe someone can ask Peter to measure his eye distance or the width of those glasses.
OasisSupernova
Sr Member
I need one of these so bad.The app I used, Shapr3d, didn't have a good photogrammetry input method and one app that I used did output some pretty nonsensical estimates. My sizing admittedly was a bit less scientific. I met someone that went to the premiere, printed him 4 or 5 different sizes - and got his input from recollection and photos from his phone.
He felt like the 248mm x 284mm x 48.6mm build size more closely fit what he saw in the case.
After watching the movie and special features a few times, I've been building them at a ~240x210x41mm size basis and it definitely "feels" like a better size in relation to a common adult hand and more importantly the messenger bag.
I'd love it if a definitive size was settled upon by smart folk, though.
I think I have a biased favored theory here that it is a lot like the Grail, there were probably multiple sizes and multiple props. A hero prop and some stunt props. That bias is that the DisneyWorld prop is a little too small as compared to the stunt props and that the premiere pop is too large and probably only used in hero shots when the Dial was halved. The motorized, clear acryllic Dial was definitely smaller than the prop at the Premiere, which I assume was Wilkinson's hero prop.
View attachment 1782077
View attachment 1782078
Around Halloween I pretty much switched over to the smaller build size. Coincidentally when I sent this 210mm resin build to the same person that attended the premiere he still felt it was smaller than the premiere display but right for the on-screen prop.
Apologies, I'm aware feelings aren't measurement!
When I settled on 210mm as a basis for the smaller / regular sized dial I based that on the average size of two german pocket-watch style compasses that I had and used the compass diameter to scale the rest.
I think the measurements of the Disney World prop earlier in the thread also support a smaller size but I think it may be a little small.
NakedMoleRat
Master Member
Looks like you were on an Ordinary Adventure.
Fabilousfab
Well-Known Member
There were more than one dial in the movie. The one from the Den of Destiny in Disneyland was smaller and had slightly different features, like different hands. The paintjob was different too. So my guess is there is a stunt dial and a close up and functional version like from the idol or the skull were back then.
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Kukulcan
Well-Known Member
I found another pic of the full display on Getty (Costume props at the Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny U.S....).
The pic with Peter shows the whole display is about 55“ high (70“ minus 15“ for head, neck and upper chest).
You can do your own measurements, but that results in 8“ height for the dial.
The pic with Peter shows the whole display is about 55“ high (70“ minus 15“ for head, neck and upper chest).
You can do your own measurements, but that results in 8“ height for the dial.
I know that there's a "That's what she said" in here somewhere. I just can't put my finger on it.
(sorry, focus.. )
Well, 8" from flat side to flat side would be pretty consistent with the Disney World prop (I think it was just a little under 8") and it would make sense that they received a spec when they got the commission for it.
Appreciate the revival of this topic, btw in hopes of a consensus on sizing.
OasisSupernova
Sr Member
8" has always been my understanding from what I have seen on this forum. Then again I don't know for sure and I'm 3 sheets to the wind. Lol.
Kukulcan
Well-Known Member
I am still talking about the dial
It looks like the dial rests on the Manhattan yellow pages here which where 9“ wide in 1968/1969. The long side matches that width pretty perfectly.
NakedMoleRat
Master Member
That is a cool prop. I love time-travel devices. But I fear a replica will be quite costly.
Kukulcan
Well-Known Member
I am in no hurry to get one, so I save some money and hope for a metal one to surface, even if the price is 4 digits.
Right now I have no display space anyway, would love to get a good (resin) compass only first.
SheerHeartAttac
New Member
The paint job is very different depending on the scenes.
For example, when Voller first pulls out the Dial in the prologue, the circular pieces on the face and the piece under the middle section are just flat white. And are flat white for most of the film.
Then, we get a short view during the finale where it looks more mother-of-pearl.
The nightmare of replica-fanatics - inconsistent paint jobs and props!
A quick reminder its been revealed (I believe earlier in this very thread?) that the one from Disneyland was sculpted and built for Disneyland. Yes, there were likely different props for hero/stunt, but the one at Disney should not be used as reference for either.
Kukulcan
Well-Known Member
Going through all the screencaps and only talking the later full version I can see two models, the Voller „hero“ one and the Archimedes „stunt“ one. Main difference is the outer hand which has a shorter first bend on the hero so it goes between the other two, while on the stunt one goes lower and would probably collide with the other hand. The hero also seems to have a more pronounced „chain“ seperating the inner mother of pearl ring.
Nowhere in the movie did I find the Hollywood Studio version where the outer hand has three levels. But taking influencers, fingers, wristwatches and phone directories as reference I can now confidently say that all versions are roughly the same size as the Hollywood Studios one.
10“ from side to side is much too large, you can see that when Voller handles the compass, it as big as a wrist watch (40-42mm), sure not the diameter of a small pocket watch of 50mm. I let this case rest now until proven wrong.
About the paint job nightmare: If there is a flat white one and a mother of pearl the choice is easy for me. Regarding the metal, it looks most like that in his workshop and in his grave, the older damaged versions look more like gold painted resin.
Nowhere in the movie did I find the Hollywood Studio version where the outer hand has three levels. But taking influencers, fingers, wristwatches and phone directories as reference I can now confidently say that all versions are roughly the same size as the Hollywood Studios one.
10“ from side to side is much too large, you can see that when Voller handles the compass, it as big as a wrist watch (40-42mm), sure not the diameter of a small pocket watch of 50mm. I let this case rest now until proven wrong.
About the paint job nightmare: If there is a flat white one and a mother of pearl the choice is easy for me. Regarding the metal, it looks most like that in his workshop and in his grave, the older damaged versions look more like gold painted resin.
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I've been trying since Christmas to work with a mother of pearl veneer for that bottom disc. I've tried...
Masked acid etching
Masked painting
Vinyl letters, then Clear Resin Finish
The latter was the closest but still wasn't happy with it.
I've also tried (and mostly failed) to plate a Dial half a few times. I've been able to hand-plate the center clutch spring pretty reliably. Compass parts, too. But when I tried half a Dial, I just haven't gotten great adhesion. (Graphite Spray, Copper Plate, Nickel Plate, Gold Plate via immersion) One of these days I'll figure it out or find a good send-off source for plating.
Sort of makes me want to build a small forge.. This hobby is the devil.
Masked acid etching
Masked painting
Vinyl letters, then Clear Resin Finish
The latter was the closest but still wasn't happy with it.
I've also tried (and mostly failed) to plate a Dial half a few times. I've been able to hand-plate the center clutch spring pretty reliably. Compass parts, too. But when I tried half a Dial, I just haven't gotten great adhesion. (Graphite Spray, Copper Plate, Nickel Plate, Gold Plate via immersion) One of these days I'll figure it out or find a good send-off source for plating.
Sort of makes me want to build a small forge.. This hobby is the devil.
SheerHeartAttac
New Member
If it helps, I don't think the one in the film has this at all. It always appears white, even if bright lighting.
The only time I see the Mother of Pearl look is in the photos of the prop on display, and it's always just that one.
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