ICONS Authentic Replicas Interview clip?

[dfchang813]

Newcomer to the whole props collectible game but I have a friend who used to work at Icons before it went under and he had some stories to tell me! LoL.

I have absolutely no horse in this race at all and all of this was ancient history for him as far as he's concerned. He's not employed in the props or effects business anymore so I don't really see any reason for him to have lied to me. I am a surgeon by profession with absolutely ZERO ties to this industry. We were just chatting over dinner at his shop cause he does some oddjob commission work or repairs on collectibles I have from time to time.

According to him, the guy in charge just liked strippers and drugs too much. LoL. Don't remember the name because frankly I didn't care. But again, he said he felt that Icons over-expanded and got too many licenses and couldn't keep up. That along with mismanagement at the top levels led to the company imploding. He himself didn't get paid for the last few months of work before he had to walk to make ends meet.

Funny thing is I didn't get the feeling that he was too bitter about the whole thing. Maybe time heals all wounds but the vibe I got was he was more sad than anything. He showed me literally dozens of pictures of the guys he worked with and the great stuff they churned out and the good memories they had.

Icons was before my time and while I had heard of them in a very peripheral fashion, I had no real appreciation for what they did and the stuff they produced.

So it's not only entertaining but very informative reading the back and forth. Have to say as an impartial observer that Steve comes off with a little more credibility here but that's just my opinion.

Let's just say that this whole props business is great if you love it but I have a hard time seeing many people getting a private mansion in Malibu doing it. I guess you've really got to love it because from where I stand it is a ridiculous amount of work for a much smaller margin than I appreciated and disaster is right around the corner from a host of unforseen things.

I'll stick with what I do for a living and just enjoy buying the props thank you very much.

 

[James Latta]

Steve...I was exhibiting Greg Jein's original props in 1993. He would loan them to me to exhibit.

Icons fabricated the classic Star Trek prop replicas for DS9. Taken off of orginals. Matt Jeffries hung out at Icons. I coordinated his first and only appearance at a Creation Star Trek Convention. He has never been invited. I also had Star Trek pieces in my collection that were exhibited at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington D.C.

You dealt in replicas Steve. Not originals. And you never worked in the Film & TV industry. And yet you scream at me that I had no access to originals? I worked on the interiors of over 100 Planet Hollywood's. Do you know what is in that collection? What we found in 1991/1992? 20 years ago? We hade unprecedented access to every studio in the business.

If you were such the prop maven you claim to be, you would not have needed ex-Icons executives and staff to help prototype for you and help build Master Replicas. You would have flown straight from the east coast to China.

Icons also produced injection plastic components. In the tens of thousands of units. So to start flaunting random engineering terms here will not impress. I would put Mike Moore and Steve Horsch's knowledge and skill against yours any day of the week. RIP Steve by the way. A gentle soul and a master at his craft.

This conversation is going nowhere. I did not post here to proclaim my innocence. Some members were having a civil conversation and Steve started another slander campaign against Icons. Ala the poster boy for cyber-stalking Guy Raz.

 

[James Latta]

Doug Conway the original CEO/President of Icons ( 1995-1998 ) and the sole signee on the checking account during that time, did not do drugs or like strippers. Another urban myth.

 

[greylocke]

James I tried to send you a PM but it's not working evidently. I have no horse in this race at all. I'm not that familiar with what did or did not happen. I understand that there is and will be bad blood and conflict between you and other members of the board. I just ask you to keep up here, and hopefully over time grievances can be aired explained and finally dismissed. I would like to know your experiences, without side issues/flaming/arguments. I personally just like to know the history of things. How did such and such a prop get created, what were the problems you faced and how they were overcome, what were the technical issues? I realize that there are some who do and will have issues with you for the past, but I am not one of them. I don't know you from Adam only through what I have read here and a few other boards. I would like to get to know your side without distractions or deflections. if that is possible.

Thank for joining and posting here, and I hope that everyone can maintain civility and reasonable discourse.

 

[scarf man]

ICONS took money for the Han Solo ANH blasters and didn't deliver the product or refund the customers.
We have a word for that behavior, scammer!!

Mr. Latta, what do you have to say to the dozen or so remaining members of this forum that were stolen from when ICONS shut it's doors?

 

[exetor999]

Well, to answer that last question first, that is why businesses can file a petition for bankruptcy! It is hard to take, when you send 100's of hard earned bucks for a replica prop, only to find the company has gone out of business. But it's NOT PERSONAL! Everyone seems to be thinking that these companies had done this on purpose, to screw over the customer base. It's just business.

I had worked for a company in LA that filed BK, and about 25,000 employees were screwed out of wages. That is just business, but it feels personal, I know. two weeks wages, and no severance, no 401K, nothing, everything gone, it's hard to take.

Secondly, it's getting kind of childish in here, can we take a more adult stand to this conversation, PLEASE? Keep it on a more serious stance? Thanx

Third: to James (if I can call you James?)

This Roger Sides person, when I saw him, in a small room off the main room at that convention, was showing a bunch of photos of the TOS 11 foot Enterprise, which he claimed that he helped Ed Mirecki refurbish, which was okay at the time, but now that would be a mistake to claim, judging from some of the comments by people on this site. LOL
Anyway, to the point. Roger claimed that he had a ton of original props and costumes that he had loaned to you, and that you had used them as collateral for investment loans on your business. He stated that you were in the hospital (apparently with ulcers) and that the company was gone, and so was his props and costumes. He told me a story, how he went to an auction at Universal, and got the winning bid on one of three trailers that were parked on the back lot. They were marked with a big "A", "B", and "C". He won the "A" trailer, which contained costumes from "Munsters", "Battlestar Galactica", "Buck Rogers" "Knightrider" and several other shows. He also said that a week after the sale, he sold Herman and Lily Munster's costumes to a collecter for $25,000, which covered the $10,000 he had to dish out for the winnign bid. He said that he gave the $25,000 to Steven Sandsweet for a Vader costume from "Empire", and bought a bunch of other original props for his collection. But that all of that was gone, and he was homeless, at the time of that conversation.
I just wanted to lay that all out to get any feedback from you. Since the story of why you were in the hospital didn't turn out to be true, I wanted to see if anything this guy told me was true.
What do you think?

Thanx

 

[scarf man]

Well, to answer that last question first, that is why businesses can file a petition for bankruptcy! It is hard to take, when you send 100's of hard earned bucks for a replica prop, only to find the company has gone out of business. But it's NOT PERSONAL! Everyone seems to be thinking that these companies had done this on purpose, to screw over the customer base. It's just business.

I did not ask you. I clearly asked Jim.
Frankly I don't need the "lesson" on bankruptcy and economics vs. personal vendetta.
While bankruptcy does protect against legal collection of debt, it does nothing to protect one's reputation in the community.

ICONS took in orders as the company was tanking, knowing full well that said orders would never be filled.
ICONS cut and ran, just like dozens of scammers after them.

 

[exetor999]

I did not ask you. I clearly asked Jim.
Frankly I don't need the "lesson" on bankruptcy and economics vs. personal vendetta.
While bankruptcy does protect against legal collection of debt, it does nothing to protect one's reputation in the community.

ICONS took in orders as the company was tanking, knowing full well that said orders would never be filled.
ICONS cut and ran, just like dozens of scammers after them.

You are ASSUMING that ICONS took in orders as the company was tanking. Where's your proof of this statement? Where's your proof that ICONS had cut and run?

If you had a problem with this company, and you couldn't take it into a court of law, due to the BK filing, why try and take it into a court of the public?
And why attack me, when I am just providing useful information, and trying to keep this subject as civil as possible?

 

[Apollo]

I opened a thread just for that.

He told me it was not possible :rolleyes

Perhaps this would work better if it tried to resemble a reasonable discourse.

A way to long ramble peppered with smart alecky responses doesn't help.

Perhaps ask a few (maybe 3) questions at a time. Wait for result.

If everyone just reverts to their emotions in the matter it'll come to nothing.

Let the man answer some questions.

 

[Apollo]

Interesting HMS did those or at least got the credit for it.

Hopefully Mike will come on here and post.

Icons fabricated the classic Star Trek prop replicas for DS9. Taken off of orginals.

 

[IFA]

Hello Mr Latta and thank you very much for join in.

After all what I've heard and read about you, I think that it is a really courageous attitude to post here. I really like what the company made at the time. I also lost some money with Icons as I lost some money with other companies later....but I did always feel something special for your wonderful products. You guys did a really great job at that time, still showing today.
So please, forget the haters here and answer some of us who have some good questions for you by PMs.

Thanks.

 

[James Latta]

Correct, HMS got credit from Master Replicas and deserved it. But Mike was a founding senior partner and Vice President of Icons manufacturing in 1995, 1996 and 1997. And had access to original Icons masters, molds and prototypes from Icons. He sells them occasionally to this day. Attend an HMS garage sale and you might get lucky and find a rare piece. More power to him.

Mike coordinated the Icons Nautlius being re-manufactured by Master Replicas, as Scott Brodeen became a staffer at HMS following the closure of Icons. Both Mike and Scott are talented artisans. Scott had the permission to use the Icons Nautilus masters as he saw fit, after the closure of Icons directly from me. As he poured his heart into the project while employeed at Icons. The large scale Icons Nautilus miniature was my and Scott's dream project and it shows in the work and sales by Master Replicas.

Steve D. claimed MR did not borrow a toothpick from Icons. And yet, if one puts the Icons Nautilus next to the MR Nautilus they are one in the same. Exact. And according to staffers at HMS at the time, this was not the first and only product which was produced from Icons R & D. Icons paid for that R & D and others, including MR profited from it. This is not gossip, it's a fact. Icons is gone. MR is gone. But history is history.

My main point being, Icons funded R & D helped MR build it's company. Like it or not. And claims that Icons masters were not used by MR is a falsehood.

I'm not here to get into a pissing match with Mike M. or HMS. Mike and I used to be dear friends and business partners and what happened with our falling out is tragic to say the least. For the record, when Mike and HMS were having dinner with the notorius Guy Raz and supporting his efforts against Icons, Mike created a lot of bad blood between us, but that is water long under the bridge now. Mike's work and talent and that of his staff speaks for itself. They were all a critical part of Icons success and Master Replicas success and the product quality of both companies. I've had peace with Mike & HMS for at least 9 years now. And I intend to keep it that way.

 

[Apollo]

So in effect Roddenberry.com is ALSO profiting from ICONS R & D as HMS does there Phasers

 

[James Latta]

I'm kind of in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation here. Which is the way it has been for 12 years. Some veterans here on the RPF are telling me not to continue to post, as the RPF has a rep for having a bit of a tough crowd. To all those who have been supportive of my communicating here with those interested, and the private messages, thank you kindly. To all of those I am offending by my posts, or mere existence, my apologies.

 

[Apollo]

Just want to add that I am looking at my ICONS Luke and Obi-Wan sabers as I post.

Although inaccurate they hold a special place in my collection

 

[Apollo]

Thats right, I hope you do continue to post as long as it's the truth, if not, I am sure you know by now that this will only cause further damage to whats left of your Reputation

I'm kind of in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation here. Which is the way it has been for 12 years. Some veterans here on the RPF are telling me not to continue to post, as the RPF has a rep for having a bit of a tough crowd. To all those who have been supportive of my communicating here with those interested, and the private messages, thank you kindly. To all of those I am offending by my posts, or mere existence, my apologies.

 

[James Latta]

Wow Apollo, you really like to stir the pot huh. Roddenberry.com has the right to produce any Star Trek product it wants to, as per Gene's original contract with Paramount via his mail order company Lincoln Enterprises. Which was so critical to producing Star Trek merchandise when the classic series went off the air. Mike and HMS worked on every incarnation of the Star Trek franchise. The series and the films. Mike brought that history with him to Icons. It was an important part of his contribution to the company. Read and examine the Icons Vault catalog # 3. It's not just history, it's a fact.

When a licensee's contract with a studio expires, or is lost, any company that follows as a licensee can produce the product specified in that licensing agreement. Even if it was prototyped by the earlier licensee. When a contract expires the molds, masters and even reference material contractually become the property of the licensor.

Mike had many original Star Trek masters and molds from his years working on Star Trek BEFORE co-founding Icons. But SOME needed to be re-molded and / or were re-mastered during his tenure at Icons. Icons was the first master Star Trek Paramount licensee for prop replicas. It manufactured 1:1 scale Star Trek licensed props and the Klingon D-7 miniature, before any other company. Including HMS and Roddenberry.com.

Good for Mike, good for HMS, and good for Roddenberry.com. More power to them ! They produce awesome products.

 

[Apollo]

Ummm.....no sorry if you feel that way.

So using your reasoning then MR had a right to use your protos as they were the "Current Licensee"

Wow Apollo, you really like to stir the pot huh. Roddenberry.com has the right to produce any Star Trek product it wants to, as per Gene's original contract with Paramount via his mail order company Lincoln Enterprises. Which was so critical to producing Star Trek merchandise when the classic series went off the air. Mike and HMS worked on every incarnation of the Star Trek franchise. The series and the films. Mike brought that history with him to Icons. It was an important part of his contribution to the company. Read and examine the Icons Vault catalog # 3. It's not just history, it's a fact.

When a licensee's contract with a studio expires, or is lost, any company that follows as a licensee can produce the product specified in that licensing agreement. Even if it was prototyped by the earlier licensee. When a contract expires the molds, masters and even reference material contractually become the property of the licensor.

Mike had many original Star Trek masters and molds from his years working on Star Trek BEFORE co-founding Icons. But SOME needed to be re-molded and / or were re-mastered during his tenure at Icons. Icons was the first master Star Trek Paramount licensee for prop replicas. It manufactured 1:1 scale Star Trek licensed props and the Klingon D-7 miniature, before any other company. Including HMS and Roddenberry.com.

Good for Mike, good for HMS, and good for Roddenberry.com. More power to them ! They produce awesome products.

 

[James Latta]

"Just want to add that I am looking at my ICONS Luke and Obi-Wan sabers as I post.
Although inaccurate they hold a special place in my collection."

Yes, well at the time, they were the best produced. And a labor of love. As you know, much was learned after the fact. Lucasfilm once called them: "The Crown Jewels of Star Wars licensing."

 

[James Latta]

So using your reasoning then MR had a right to use your protos as they were the "Current Lincensee"

Absolutely 100% correct. Any company would have that right.

Icons was forced to surrender 3 million dollars in Star Wars replica product parts and components to Lucasfilm Ltd. it was photographed and video-taped when delivered. Had we known that our bankruptcy filing could have protected all of that inventory? And forced LFL to turn Icons Star Wars license back on? Icons would have survived.

Here's an important lesson, each studio licensing contract specifies that once a licensee goes into bankruptcy it's licensing contract and rights are terminated immediately. But a Federal Bankruptcy Judge can turn licenses back on, in order to save the company. Something many attorney's did not understand during Icons bankruptcy proceeding. No one understood that fact. That it was possible. A key learning lesson that could have changed history.