ICONS Authentic Replicas Interview clip?

[James Kenobi 1138]

All I can add to this Thread is the ICONS lightsabers in the SW Insider are what got me hooked on prop replicas.

I'm going to add an ICONS Obi-Wan saber to my collection someday. No Obi-Wan collection would be complete without it.

 

[T2SF]

I just wish I was older to had known about Icons. Only learned about them in the mid 2000's. I know Icons made good products and they hold their value today and made a lot of people happy and there was also the people that paid and got nothing and then the company wen't under. It's a fact of life that not all companies will survive and that a bankruptcy will **** a lot of people off. I wish there was a better system. There is not much you can do now though. I'd rather hear his stories and insights then constant flaming. Perhaps a ICONS/James Latta is evil fixed thread and then everything else. Lots of rumors float around, he said she said and it's easy for me to speak as I lose nothing But still it's beating a dead horse.

 

[James Latta]

Hi Tardiss55, Thank you for your comment.

Yes, that find was so important in many ways and I am glad you are familiar with it and agree it is historic.

The original BTTF I, II, and III costumes out on the market came from "3" primary sources:

#1 The wardrobe rental house find of Roger Sides. Which included various pieces from BTTF ! and II. Biff's gang, supporting pieces etc.

And then for the hero wardrobe of the principles:

# 2 A storage container that was stored on the backlot of Universal Studios in Studio City, Ca. ( since the wrap of BTF III ) that was emptied to decorate the BTTF Ride attraction. Costumes were "rescued" by one of the coordinators on that project and sold privately. He also had a ton of original props including all the Hero hoverboards.

# 3 - They were "saved" from Universal Studios wardrobe rental department at the studio.

At the time Universal did not care about any of the Back to the Future costumes ( or props ) they were renting. All of them including Hero pieces. They were rented for a daily rate of $35 to $75 to other productions. The majority of these pieces were eventually rented by collectors / brokers posing as production people in the early 1990's about 20 years ago. When rented a replacement value was assigned to each piece. The pieces were not returned and the replacement amount was paid to the studio, which they happily accepted.

In the case of BTTF, many Hero props were rented, but then duplicated, and the replicas were returned to the studio. At times the studio was happy to receive a piece that was altered or painted. Considering it enhanced. They could care less about the originals.

Battlestar Galactica Hero miniatures were rented, duplicated and replaced. To near perfection.

Night Gallery paintings were rented, duplicated and replaced. Also to near perfection.

1960's pieces from the Munsters was rented, duplicated and replaced. Including Spot's collar ( The giant Dragon under the stairs that would breath fire ).

In the case of Logans Run, the costumes were found at Sony Studios ( formerly MGM ). The Hero Sandman costumes were gone, having been located at Western Costume, but the supporting actors costumes and citizens costumers were once again hanging on the rental rack at the studio. The key wardrobe supervisor sold them openly as surplus. Same with complete Child Alien costumes from Close Encounters of the Third Kind ( Mask, head, and feet. ) Columbia was also sold to Sony. I have no idea if he pocketed the money, but that is very likely.

Same with Ghostbusters. Sony was cleaned out. Hanging on the rental rack back in the day.

 

[frightzone_4_you]

ICONS took money for the Han Solo ANH blasters and didn't deliver the product or refund the customers.
We have a word for that behavior, scammer!!

Mr. Latta, what do you have to say to the dozen or so remaining members of this forum that were stolen from when ICONS shut it's doors?

EXACTLY! Mr. Latta, I'm one of the members who got scammed! I had spent a good amount of $$$ when you & your employees knew you were not going to deliver the goods... I had spoken to you back in the day & you promised me you would deliver. This was days after you began your bankruptcy process & again you told me over the phone that you would make sure all my items would be delivered & promised me a BSG gun prop for my patience. After some weeks, I tried to sue you/ICONS & you were already under bankruptcy protection! You were a liar & a scammer! Knowing that you were going under, you still made false promises to me... I'm sorry to say, but you are a liar & other things I'd rather not type in order to stay civil!

 

[James Latta]

Dear Frightzone,

What Battlestar Galactica gun would that have been that I promised? Icons never even produced a prototype for any BG gun. I have no idea of what you are talking about. Not saying you are lying, I'm saying there was plenty of other products to mention to you other then a BG gun.

For the record many customers not only received refunds in full from Icons, Some were demanding refunds after their product was delivered. Some customers recieved 3 of the same product. Icons accounting and order system was never able to keep up with the volume of orders it received it's first year in business. And the bull run on refunds did not help our accounting. As we'd ship an item, and then their would be a forced charge-back.

Here's another lesson, when you are taking orders and charge customers via a credit card, make sure that their order can be cross referenced via the customers credit card # and not just their name. As the bank, if there is a forced charge-back does not always give you the customers name, just the credit card #. This was a major problem in our accounting system as we could not track order cancellations.

Icons went through 15 accounting managers in it's 5 years. This too did not help.

As far as Icons bankruptcy goes we did think the company was going to survive through bankruptcy and reorganize. But it takes a lot of money, effort and organization to fund a corporate bankruptcy and it is much more complex that a personal bankruptcy. Icons needed 60K to continue and at that point it was to late. The bankruptcy was dismissed.

Guy Raz constant distractions, drama, slander and liable, including him being in bankruptcy court hearings, harrassing the attorneys did not help matters either. The next time I saw him he was walking towards me in an orange jumpsuit, chains and handcuffs in Federal Court. I sat right behind the assistant U.S. Attorney during his hearing where he was denied bail.

So when it comes to my being scum for thinking Icons was going to survive? I am very sorry. At the time I refused to believe that the bankruptcy would not help save the company. We had come to far and there was too much at stake. I had to continue to try and carry on. I answered the phone in the end when no one would. When you pay a bankruptcy attorney 10K? You think things will work out. Nothing could have been farther from the truth.

Timeless Collectibles also contributed to the demise of Icons at this time in regard to Icons bankruptcy. But that is another horror story.

 

[frightzone_4_you]

Mr. Latta, The last phone conversation we had you promised that BSG gun prop from your personal collection. You must have a bad memory when it serves you. Regardless, no orders should have been taken when the company was going under! I was never refunded & I had paid via money order at that time. I have singled you out because I had spoken to YOU & YOU promised me my items! I still have all proof of what was ordered & paid for including the court documents from when I tried to sue! And one more thing Mr. Lata, stop acting like a victim... I'm not the only one your company scammed & to whom you had lied to!

 

[James Latta]

You know what's interesting Frightzone, as many members here on the RPF know, at least the old timers from the 1980's, ALL of the top Battlestar Galactica original prop, miniature and wardrobe collectors in the nation knew each other and was very familiar with what every collector had in their personal collections. And guess what....I did not collect on Galactica. Roger did. JB did. RK did. CP did. FF did. There were only about "5" at that time that were seeking out that series original pieces worldwide. All are well-noted collectors, experts and to be honest...television historians.

So for you to claim that I promised you an original Battlestar Galactica pistol is not true. I don't know who you are. But you are most likely either a competitor of mine from when I was a memorabilia collector / broker. Or a competitor of Icons. Perhaps someone who sells unlicensed replicas who had a chip on their shouldar still from Icons licensing prop replicas.

Odd that you "paid with a money order" too. What is your name? I'm not hiding behind a handle.

I've emailed you directly.

 

[frightzone_4_you]

You know what's interesting Frightzone, as many members here on the RPF know, at least the old timers from the 1980's, ALL of the top Battlestar Galactica original prop, miniature and wardrobe collectors in the nation knew each other and was very familiar with what every collector had in their personal collections. And guess what....I did not collect on Galactica. Roger did. JB did. RK did. CP did. FF did. There were only about "5" at that time that were seeking out that series original pieces worldwide. All are well-noted collectors, experts and to be honest...television historians.

So for you to claim that I promised you an original Battlestar Galactica pistol is not true. I don't know who you are. But you are most likely either a competitor of mine from when I was a memorabilia collector / broker. Or a competitor of Icons. Perhaps someone who sells unlicensed replicas who had a chip on their shouldar still from Icons licensing prop replicas.

Odd that you "paid with a money order" too. What is your name? I'm not hiding behind a handle.

I've emailed you directly.

Email reply sent.

 

[Alan Castillo]

I have absolutely no bone to pick in this thread, but it is indeed an interesting topic.

Mr. Latta, you keep on claiming that there was never any 'deliberate intention' to defraud any of your customers.

Yet there are legal cases on record, like this one, wherein a court of law ruled that Icons committed, quote, "intentional fraud", unquote.

I am sure many would be interested to hear your views about this interpretation.

 

[James Latta]

That specific customer who won by default, is a very capable attorney. Who ordered a B-9 Robot, couldn't wait for it to be made, requested a refund and was given one in full by Icons.

After the refund in full he sued Icons claiming he was damaged by not receiving what he ordered. Which was his right. He sued in the state of New York and at the time Icons could not afford to fight the lawsuit, let alone fly executives to the east coast during a time of complete crisis management. He easily won by default.

So at one point Icons was being sued by Newline Cinema to prevent us from making B-9 robots, after cancelling Icons Lost in Space license, while a customer whom was refunded in full was suing for Icons not making robots. Damned if you do...damned if you don't.

Icons and myself were never charged with any fraud of any kind by the U.S. Department of Justice, FBI, Attorney General, Los Angeles D.A. or USPS Postmaster General. We were cleared of all wrong doing. As we had no intent to defraud anyone. When the Department of Justice toured Icons they said they would have bought stock in the company. They could see where every single dime had been spent in our 12,500 square foot factory.

 

[James Latta]

So another world of advice and caution...anyone, anytime, anywhere, can sue your company or you for anything. And they can do so from another state. We live in a litigious society. If you are successful? You are most likely going to get sued. It is actually considered a right of passage with some businessmen I have known. Although I do not recommend it.

 

[James Latta]

I should add Winston Dunlop ( the Ex-NYPD Detective ) flew to Los Angeles ( with Bob Nardi, another Icons customer ) after that article was published and met with many ex-Icons founders, employees, vendors and licensees and both became dear friends of mine. We are still in touch to this day.

Winston ( and Bob ) know exactly what happened at Icons after their visits to Los Angeles and they were two of the key people ( along with several gallant members of the RPF ) who helped stop the notorius Guy Raz.

 

[Alan Castillo]

Thank you for your replies. I am sure they have also shed light on certain things for others.

 

[The Prop Stop]

"Yes, that find was so important in many ways and I am glad you are familiar with it and agree it is historic.

The original BTF I, II, and III costumes out on the market came from "3" primary sources:

#1 The wardrobe rental house find of Roger Sides. Which included various pieces from BTF ! and II. Biff's gang, supporting pieces etc.

And then for the hero wardrobe of the principles:

# 2 A storage container that was stored on the backlot of Universal Studios in Studio City, Ca. ( since the wrap of BTF III ) that was emptied to decorate the BTF Ride attraction. Costumes were "rescued" by one of the coordinators on that project and sold privately. He also had a ton of original props including all the Hero hoverboards.

# 3 - They were "saved" from Universal Studios wardrobe rental department at the studio.

At the time Universal did not care about any of the Back to the Future costumes ( or props ) they were renting. All of them including Hero pieces. They were rented for a daily rate of $35 to $75 to other productions. The majority of these pieces were eventually rented by collectors / brokers posing as production people in the early 1990's about 20 years ago. When rented a replacement value was assigned to each piece. The pieces were not returned and the replacement amount was paid to the studio, which they happily accepted.

In the case of BTF, many Hero props were rented, but then duplicated, and the replicas were returned to the studio. At times the studio was happy to receive a piece that was altered or painted. Considering it enhanced. They could care less about the originals.

Battlestar Galactica Hero miniatures were rented, duplicated and replaced. To near perfection.

Night Gallery paintings were rented, duplicated and replaced. Also to near perfection.

1960's pieces from the Munsters was rented, duplicated and replaced. Including Spot's color ( The giant Dragon under the stairs ).

In the case of Logans Run, the costumes were found at Sony Studios ( formerly MGM ). The Hero Sandman costumes were gone, having been located at Western Costume, but the supporting actors costumes and citizens costumers were once again hanging on the rental rack at the studio. The key wardrobe supervisor sold them openly as surplus. Same with complete Child Alien costumes from Close Encounters of the Third Kind ( Mask, head, and feet. ) Columbia was also sold to Sony. I have no idea if he pocketed the money, but that is very likely.

Same with Ghostbusters. Sony was cleaned out. Hanging on the rental rack back in the day."

Its really cool to read this. It clears up alot of the stuff I've heard over the years and proves that, indeed, alot of the stuff in private collections today is out and out stolen. Of course its all under the bridge today but I really appreciate that basically half the history of 1990's props in a nutshell is right here.

So can you add to the interesting story of the secuity guard at Warners and his single handed "reaping" of the Batman department after "Returns" and the two "Spiderman" suits that went walkies from Sony. More stories I'd love to hear the truth behind....if you know it.

 

[James Latta]

Another thing I really learned the hardway from the fall of Icons. If you are going to be an executive in a corporation, before opening your doors for business, make sure the company obtains "D & O" business insurance. Which protects Directors & Executives in a corporation against litigation.

Just being incorporated is not enough, as any entity that choses to litigate against the corporation that employs you can claim that the corporation is not run as a corporation. Even if that is not true, it does not matter, the opposing party can simply paper you to death with a lengthy lawsuit. The costs escalate almost daily and your company's attorney may not care if they drag proceedings out as they continue to get paid. No disrespect to lawyers, as not all our unethical.

Make sure you keep perfect corporate minutes from board meetings on a regular basis. As that is what will be critical to show in court as evidence. Not simple board minutes that come with a corporation package, but real board minute meetings with recorded votes documented on important decisions that are made, on a regular basis. These are crucial to protect the corporation for all that would attack it for any reason. This is one of the primary areas founders of corporations screw-up on. Phoning in corporate board meeting notes and not having them on a reguar basis.

I don't know if any of this is helpful, but some here have emailed me and said that they are finding some of this informative. At least that is something. So that in the event you are involved in a start-up corporation and face some of the challenges Icons did, perhaps you may avoid my fate. Although I hope none of you ever do....

 

[James Latta]

Its really cool to read this. It clears up alot of the stuff I've heard over the years and proves that, indeed, alot of the stuff in private collections today is out and out stolen. Of course its all under the bridge today but I really appreciate that basically half the history of 1990's props in a nutshell is right here.


Thank you Tardis. Yes...that is the case. Some call it "grey market" as the studios did not seem to care at the time. But the truth is they did not know what they were losing. There is some fascinating documentation on the big legal case regarding the above that is remarkable to read. A major broker did take a huge fall for much of it. And did not rat anyone out everyone else involved. But it was a difficult time for the industry as many studios got very pissed off when it came to light. But by then it was too late.

The thing that is really sad is the studio employees and collectors who ended up doing the same thing in the late 1990's and early 2000's that did not know they were stealing replicas !! So there are people with BTF hoverboards, Viper and Cylon Raider miniatures etc. that think they have the real thing and they don't. There are only a few people in the business that can I.D. the replicas as they made them.

So can you add to the interesting story of the secuity guard at Warners and his single handed "reaping" of the Batman department after "Returns" and the two "Spiderman" suits that went walkies from Sony. More stories I'd love to hear the truth behind....if you know it.

Yes. This is public record, so I am not revealing anything here that is confidential. The infamous Jeff Gustafason. Who I really liked and admired as a hunter. But who got carried away with the internal studio thefts at Warner Bros.

He worked at WB and was caught on camera carrying out racks of original Batman film costumes. Many were never found and are in private collections to this day. During the filming of Batman & Robin someone stole Arnold's Mr. Freeze prop gun and Warner Bros. lost a $275,000.00 shooting day. This story on it's own is hard to believe. As Warner's basically said to L.A. prop underground: "Hey...can't you wait to steal the hero props until we get our shot for the day?" And then they went on the warpath. Bringing Jeff G. down and going after his lead broker D.E. I was brought in for questioning on all of this and that meeting with Burbank P.D. Detectives was one of the strangest and most hilarious expierences of my life in collecting. But that story would take a whole post. lol.

There was so much money in the business at the time with Planet Hollywood buying 600 pieces a month that everyone wanted in in Los Angeles. So brokers kind of lost their minds there for a bit and got way too greedy. And they started to steal off sets during filming in an organized methodology. Paying off studio employees.

Jeff G. went onto work for Sony Studios as a security guard ( I heard his union backed him ) and stole several Spiderman hero costumes which a broker posted on eBay for some strange reason. And the drama started all over again. I think Jeff served a few years in prison.

Jeff's partner on the Spiderman drama was Robert Hughes who also got pulled in to the investigation. He was a runner for Stan Winston Studios at one point. And that is another story....

 

[Alan Castillo]

.... But that story would take a whole post. lol.

... And that is another story....

Please make sure that you tell them all at some point :lol

Fascinating reading :thumbsup

 

[James Latta]

I hope I am not boring readers here. I will not post on any other thread to no worries.

One more thing on the Batman heist at Warner Bros. Their official position following the brokers sentancing ( he got 6 months in a halfway house ) was any piece pre-Batman & Robin they would just threw in the towel on when it came to ownership. Because they could not prove where those pieces came from. To read the cross examination of the defense on what lead to there official position is quite interesting. As it covers pretty much the entire history of the studio and networks mindset at the time when it comes to memorabilia. They were called out on every practice of not caring about the original production artifacts in their care.

Since this time, according to my knowledge, WB does not even bother with Batman & Robin.

Disney rentals was also hit in the early 1990's. A Blackhole VINCENT maquette etc. But not on the scale of Universal.

But the practice does goes back further. Something to be aware of. There are reputable memorabilia brokers out there who know most of the above and do care. They do the research and know what to look for. Then there are others who do not care and will 100% sell a fake. Including auction houses that shall go un-named.

 

[greylocke]

I know you are saying that you only intend to post in this thread, but I feel that it would be informative if you could post about the other matters in a separate thread. However I have the feeling that other members would go to that thread with upset posts and it would devolve into something we don't really want. I find the inside information you are posting is fascinating and very informative. I have been googling a few of the names you have been dropping and I am finding a LOT of interesting reading.

Thank you sir.

 

[Alan Castillo]

I believe that all information being given by Mr. Latta should be kept in this thread alone.

I see 'non-Icons' related information as welcome 'interludes' in this thread, that, at the end of day, is not a very comfortable one for him to be posting in in the first place.

Kudos for posting at all.