Hollywood’s current state of failure and the reasons for it

[ghostryder]

Nobody else gets paid for what they did years ago.

Lots of people do - cast of Star Wars, Friends, Seinfeld, and a bunch of other properties - hell, William Shatner STILL gets a payment for every new iteration of Trek whether he's in it or not... If you literally create an asset for an entity that wants to monetize it for profit, why shouldn't you be entitled?

 

[batguy]

But they have to produce things that people want to watch. That's the whole point! You can't complain that you wrote a failed TV show 20 years ago and you can't buy a car from the proceeds. That is stupid. Hollywood is trying to live off of what they did once upon a time, instead of going out and DOING SOMETHING NEW!

That's producer issues. Writers don't control what gets funded & produced. They generally don't even control the broad/macro aspects of the projects that they do write.

Nobody else gets paid for what they did years ago. I mean, sure, I'd love to get a paycheck every time someone opens a software package that I wrote a decade ago, but that's not how it works in the real world.

Are the writers morally wrong for banding together & demanding compensation for their work? You're sounding kinda jealous here.

The fact is, screenwriting involves an expensive city, very inconsistent & unpredictable amounts of work, and it's crucial to very expensive & profitable productions. The studios can keep trying to get along without paying them adequately if they want, but the quality of the TV/movies is just gonna keep getting worse.

The studios were paying more for movie scripts the 1990s. The quality of the movies was better too. Funny how that works.

 

[ghostryder]

I'm as capitalist as the next guy, but when EVERYTHING must be sacrificed to maximize every last ounce of profit shareholder value above all else (including and especially stock buy backs) - especially by executives who will only be in that position long enough to take care of themselves and get out, well, look what's happening...

Anyway, on another note, as the saying goes, "You Don't Get what You Deserve - You Get what You Negotiate."

 

[Lightning]

. The studios can keep trying to get along without paying them adequately if they want, but the quality of the TV/movies is just gonna keep getting worse.

Yep, they are driving away all the people with life experience. If you cant afford a family being a writer then no one with families will be a writer. Then you are left with young people with low expenses and no life experience, or the independently wealthy.

 

[ghostryder]

'Suits' Writer Shows How Much He Got Paid in Residuals from Netflix Last Quarter

Spoiler alert: You cannot buy a good suit with it.

collider.com

 

[signeddiamond]

Whatever it takes. That's how reality works. Just because you really want to write for TV or film, that doesn't mean you're going to get to. Welcome to the real world.

I agree with this one. Frankly the residual model was a flawed one from the start. While the goal of adding an incentive to making a good product was one I'm sure made sense it has become a gamble at this point. When a mechanic fixes someone's car he does not get a penny for every mile it drives thereafter. When a teacher educates a classroom they do not get a percentage of the income made by those students.

Pay them more upfront and then cut them loose. If the series does well then it makes you more attractive to the next person hiring you and you can negotiate a better paycheck. Just like any other freelance job. If you are a freelance painter you don't get residuals for the work you sold but you can use a high profile piece to sell your work for a bit more next time. I side completely with the writers that they deserve to be compensated for the work they do but I fundamentally disagree about their arcane method of getting paid. Much like waiters getting paid scratch because they get tips it's not sustainable and it's not a system that someone can grow in.

Residuals are down because the market is flooded with content. Long gone are the days where an entire nation needed to sit down and know if Sam and Diane were going to get together this week. Now people are content to watch a 3 hour YouTube documentary on police interrogations. They watch shows about what may or may not be a cake. They listen to Joe Rogan talk about eating an all wood diet for 4 hours straight. The wealth of content and it's ease of consumption means that counting on those checks is a losing game in 2023 anyway. Don't try to put a bandage on the system, take it apart and build it back up for the long term.

 

[batguy]

They listen to Joe Rogan talk about eating an all wood diet for 4 hours straight.

Rogan to guest: "So, is DMT allowed on that diet?"

 

[Psab keel]

How many jobs outside of the entertainment industry pay out residuals to their employees, sometimes years after the fact? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Lightning]

How many jobs outside of the entertainment industry pay out residuals to their employees, sometimes years after the fact? I'm genuinely curious.

Residuals are a form of royalty, someone paying you for the right to make money with your property, be it physical or intellectual.

Common types outside entertainment are Patent royalties, franchise royalties, and Mineral royalties.

It is indeed possible for an employee to recieve patent royalties from their employer after inventing something.

 

[Psab keel]

Residuals are a form of royalty, someone paying you for the right to make money with your property, be it physical or intellectual.

Common types outside entertainment are Patent royalties, franchise royalties, and Mineral royalties.

It is indeed possible for an employee to recieve patent royalties from their employer after inventing something.

Thanks for the answer. I did read about a few careers that pay them too but this makes more sense than what I read about.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

….hell, William Shatner STILL gets a payment for every new iteration of Trek whether he's in it or not...

I believe that this was negotiated with both Shatner and Nimoy as part of their contracts during the classic movie era…sort of a way to recapture all the residuals that they lost out on during the heyday of the series’ syndication run. With their “favored nation’s” clause in their contracts, whatever one of them got, so did the other.

I don’t think any of the other classic cast members received the same contractual arrangement (as a matter of fact, none of the other cast members saw any residuals, after the third rerun of each episode, from the series).

 

[tcsmit29]

It is indeed possible for an employee to recieve patent royalties from their employer after inventing something.

This is possible, but I don't think it is likely to happen in my experience. I work in the chemical industry and the last two companies I worked for had you sign away your rights to inventions as part of the hiring process. It wasn't negotiable, you either sign or you don't work. I've also known several people who had to sign non-compete contracts when they decided to leave, to ensure that they don't do similar work for another company.

 

[Lightning]

This is possible, but I don't think it is likely to happen in my experience. I work in the chemical industry and the last two companies I worked for had you sign away your rights to inventions as part of the hiring process. It wasn't negotiable, you either sign or you don't work. I've also known several people who had to sign non-compete contracts when they decided to leave, to ensure that they don't do similar work for another company.

Correct, it's simple to avoid that situation so companies do so. Of Course, writers aren't actually employees of the studio, they work for the producer who runs an independent production company, that has a contract with the studio for distribution. So writer residuals aren't being paid by the employer to the employee anyway.

 

[Cephus]

I agree with this one. Frankly the residual model was a flawed one from the start. While the goal of adding an incentive to making a good product was one I'm sure made sense it has become a gamble at this point. When a mechanic fixes someone's car he does not get a penny for every mile it drives thereafter. When a teacher educates a classroom they do not get a percentage of the income made by those students.

Pay them more upfront and then cut them loose. If the series does well then it makes you more attractive to the next person hiring you and you can negotiate a better paycheck. Just like any other freelance job. If you are a freelance painter you don't get residuals for the work you sold but you can use a high profile piece to sell your work for a bit more next time. I side completely with the writers that they deserve to be compensated for the work they do but I fundamentally disagree about their arcane method of getting paid. Much like waiters getting paid scratch because they get tips it's not sustainable and it's not a system that someone can grow in.

Residuals are down because the market is flooded with content. Long gone are the days where an entire nation needed to sit down and know if Sam and Diane were going to get together this week. Now people are content to watch a 3 hour YouTube documentary on police interrogations. They watch shows about what may or may not be a cake. They listen to Joe Rogan talk about eating an all wood diet for 4 hours straight. The wealth of content and it's ease of consumption means that counting on those checks is a losing game in 2023 anyway. Don't try to put a bandage on the system, take it apart and build it back up for the long term.

I don't think they deserve more. That's the thing, they are trying to make money for work not being done. I'd be fine if the entire crew got a bonus if the movie surpassed certain metrics, but thereafter, get back to work! Hollywood has spent enough time pretending it's special.

There's really no way to do residuals for streaming. For TV reruns, it airs once and many thousands of people may see it in that time. The ad revenue generated can fund payment to creators. For streaming, it's just there. There is no ad revenue. People watch it or they don't. There is no additional money made to fund residuals. It's all part of the singular monthly fee. Even if there was a way to break it down by actual views and give them some small percentage of the take, they'd still complain and nobody actually wants to see streaming numbers. Nobody. It's just going to prove how poorly the entire streaming industry is doing. It's going to show the studios how little interest there is in their shows. Just because it's available, that doesn't make it popular and there are services out there that can get those numbers and invariably, with very few exceptions, streaming numbers suck. This is not the hill anyone wants to die on.

 

[jts1031]

One of the things the WGA is trying to accomplish is to get studios to hire a minimum number of writers for a show, basically forcing shows to have a writers room. If a showrunner wants to write everything themselves, what's wrong with that? Why should they be forced to include other voices who may or may not even understand the subject? I found this Hollywood Reporter article on Taylor Sheridan was enlightening:

Taylor Sheridan Does Whatever He Wants: “I Will Tell My Stories My Way”

 

[joberg]

I don't know. Ask them. I mean, I'm one of them, but I can tell you I didn't vote for that. If I had control, Iger wouldn't have a job. Neither would Kathleen Kennedy. However, I don't have control. which means the majority shareholders either agree with what Iger is doing, which I agree is stupid, or they are living in a haze of "remember what Disney was once upon a time?" which I think is more likely. In either case, my shares have died in value over the last 18 months.

The thing here, since we've been talking about the WGA strike, is that those people make, on average, $70k a year. A lot of them only work a couple of months a year, if that. A lot of them are complaining that they're only working 6 weeks at a time and only making $7k a week. Great! That givees you 46 weeks a year to go get another job if you want more money. Their idea of what a "living wage" is and that of most Americans are very, very, very different.

That's another topic altogether and that economists should answer. The average folks have a very little knowledge about the capitalist economy.
Lots of misinformation about it in newspapers/T.V./social media, etc...People tend to forget the motto:

Capitalism: the unequal distribution of profits.
Communism: the equal distribution of poverty.

Private enterprise vs community enterprise...nothing these CEOs or their Corporations is doing is against the law.
It might be immoral at times, but not illegal!

 

[joberg]

I wouldn't have expected it, but you touched upon one of the greatest points ever made on this board.

Just going to tuck that away forever...

As every opinion...in the end, it's the people who can exact changes (or not) that will make that decision

 

[Paul Andrew]

As every opinion...in the end, it's the people who can exact changes (or not) that will make that decision

If only there were some codified method of people collectively pooling resources to effect change...

 

[Cephus]

One of the things the WGA is trying to accomplish is to get studios to hire a minimum number of writers for a show, basically forcing shows to have a writers room. If a showrunner wants to write everything themselves, what's wrong with that? Why should they be forced to include other voices who may or may not even understand the subject? I found this Hollywood Reporter article on Taylor Sheridan was enlightening:

Taylor Sheridan Does Whatever He Wants: “I Will Tell My Stories My Way”

Basically, the WGA is trying to keep as many writers around, paying into their coffers. Big surprise there.

 

[Cephus]

That's another topic altogether and that economists should answer. The average folks have a very little knowledge about the capitalist economy.
Lots of misinformation about it in newspapers/T.V./social media, etc...People tend to forget the motto:

Capitalism: the unequal distribution of profits.
Communism: the equal distribution of poverty.

Private enterprise vs community enterprise...nothing these CEOs or their Corporations is doing is against the law.
It might be immoral at times, but not illegal!

I think we all know that the American educational system sucks. Look at the kind of people it's cranking out. You also have to remember that a lot of people of a... particular political persuasion are dyed-in-the-wool communists. They don't live in the real world. They can't see that every time that communism has been tried, it's failed. They're just running on pure fee-fees, which you can tell every time someone around here says that people "deserve" stuff. People deserve nothing except equal treatment under the law.

No wonder we're so screwed up, given how ignorant and irrational a lot of people are these days.