Help reguarding primer on resin kit

GF

Sr Member
After cleaning all resin parts throughly with soap and water, I used Krylon
primer, but the primer didn't adhere properly, I tried sanding a small area from blemishes and the primer easily comes off, should it dry longer so it adheres better ?

I don't need to sand or mask, I'm ready to apply the main color, is there a way I can salvage the job without stripping the entire ship? I mean once I apply the main color and seal it with Testor flat dull coat will it be durable enough?

Thank you!
GFollano
 
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Just prey that it is not caused by weeping resin.... Is that happening in one spot or the whole thing??
If it is in one spot on a big part or just certain parts that are seperate pieces from larger ones, it may be from weeping resin from where the resin hasn't been mixed properly.

Lynn
 
Just prey that it is not caused by weeping resin.... Is that happening in one spot or the whole thing??
If it is in one spot on a big part or just certain parts that are seperate pieces from larger ones, it may be from weeping resin from where the resin hasn't been mixed properly.

Lynn

It seems it's everywere, cleaning parts using soap and water is it enough to remove release agents? I just did a search and found that I should use a product called Resin prep ect...

GFollano
 
And then after that, head over to your local Car Quest if you have one and check out the Plasticote primer line. I use them with great success. You can get white, black, gray and oxide.
 
Thanks guys!

I really want to avoid stripping off the primer, it's the 38" Super Star Destroyer and the fine details are endless, will the self etching primer adhere and etch threw the primer I applied? If the only options is to strip the entire model what's best method without much effort? I remember once using Easy Off over cleaner but not on such detailed model.

GFollano
 
I had to strip one of the Salzo Xwings I was working on. I used Easy Off to do that, but used an old toothbrush to get the nooks and crannies. It took about 2 or 3 applications to get it all. Best to let the Easy Off work before scrubbing....say about 30 minutes minimum.

If you're only having adhesion problems in isolated areas rather than the whole ship, you could try stripping only those sections and then use the etching primer there. That way you won't have to strip the whole thing. Test first on a small area to be sure that the primer you have on now is compatible with the new primer since they'll overlap a little.

I'd never recommend simply coating over an area that's already exfoliating with anything, since the primer needs to bite bare material to work the best.
 
has anybody else start building their SSD? I wanted to start next week, and I hope it's not the resin bleeding. I washed the whole thing once and it still feels a little oily. I normally use Tamiya grey primer. Did the job done in most cases til now, so I hope it'll do it this time as well. When would a bleeding resin show it's ugly face? If I wait a week or two and nothing happens, am I on the safe side?

Tobias
 
My understanding is that improperly mixed resin can continue to weep for a very long time, so I don't know if or when you'd be 'in the clear' after a week or two. I hope that's not the problem, either. The resin experts will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know of any cure for weeping resin.
 
If warm soapy water is doing the job, try cleaning it with Simple Green (it's now people free ;) ). Then warm soapy water again.

If it's still oily after that, it's weeping. Problem with that, is that it can last anywhere from a week to forever. You might be able to put it in a low temp oven for bit and see if that helps kick it.

If not, you have two options, sell it to me for $5 and I'll deal with the problems ;), or you can try sealing it with some CA. Get the really watery stuff and just give every piece a very thin coat. It won't stop it from weeping internally, but it'll stop the stuff from surfacing and goofing up your paint job.

-Fred
 
has anybody else start building their SSD? I wanted to start next week, and I hope it's not the resin bleeding. I washed the whole thing once and it still feels a little oily. I normally use Tamiya grey primer. Did the job done in most cases til now, so I hope it'll do it this time as well. When would a bleeding resin show it's ugly face? If I wait a week or two and nothing happens, am I on the safe side?

Tobias


I washed all parts twice using a old toothbrush, I also scrubbed the large hull surface with a scotch pad sponge, the type to clean dishes and the surface still seemed very slippery and glossy, like touching a newly waxed car. I'm quite sure once I apply the main color and seal it with testor dullcoat it will hold pretty good, it's a display piece afterall won't be handling it.

GFollano
 
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Dullcoat in and of itself, is not a sealer. It's an unpigmented flat coat. It's no different than spraying a coat of flat black, but just clear.

What you're looking for is a flat clear coat, like an automotive clear coat, just not in high gloss. Now, if you can't find that stuff, get some Future floor wax, spray that on, then spray a dull coat over that.

But, you need to seal the resin before you paint it. If you paint it, then seal it, the weeping oils will just screw up your paint under the clear coat. Then, you'll just have that much more to remove in order to fix the the problem.

Take a small piece that is having a weeping issue. Spray it (or dip it in) Future floor wax and give it 48 hours to dry. See if the Future cures properly or if the oils cause a problem with the drying process.

-Fred
 
Dullcoat in and of itself, is not a sealer. It's an unpigmented flat coat. It's no different than spraying a coat of flat black, but just clear.

What you're looking for is a flat clear coat, like an automotive clear coat, just not in high gloss. Now, if you can't find that stuff, get some Future floor wax, spray that on, then spray a dull coat over that.

But, you need to seal the resin before you paint it. If you paint it, then seal it, the weeping oils will just screw up your paint under the clear coat. Then, you'll just have that much more to remove in order to fix the the problem.

Take a small piece that is having a weeping issue. Spray it (or dip it in) Future floor wax and give it 48 hours to dry. See if the Future cures properly or if the oils cause a problem with the drying process.

-Fred


Thank you Fred,

Just to make myself clear, the primer holds on surface there's no reaction on the model surface, the primer is nice and smooth, I just find that the primer scrapes off easily if I rub with my nail or a cloth with little effort, the primer seems to hold better on porous areas.

If I understand correctly, Future floor wax will act as a sealer? basically I paint the main color over my primed surface, once dry spray Future over model let dry 48 hrs then apply Testors dullcoat correct?


GFollano
 
Well, technically, there is a reaction between the primer and the resin. The reaction being is that the primer is not bonding the way it's supposed to.

Before we get too far, here's a little primer on primer (and flat and gloss coats). Primers and flats are flat because of the way the paint is designed to dry. The paint molecules dry pointing in all diffrent directions. This causes reflecting light to scatter, giving the flat coat it's dull appearance. Gloss coats on the other hand, are designed to dry so that the molecules all line up. This refelects light back at a predictable angle and gives the paint it's glossy appearance.

The way primer works is it creates a mechanical bond with the material it's sprayed on. It forms this bond by being a "grit" coat. The grit gets into the microfisions in the resin surface. Then as you spray another coat of primer, it chemically bonds to itself. When you spray your top coat (flat or gloss), it bites into the grit of the primer because it's sitting in all the little grooves in the primer. Then supplemental layers of top coat are chemically bonding to itself. It's also why you have to spray supplemental layers in either the first 24 hours or after 7 days. Any time in between then, the original paint will be curing (degassing and releasing the carrier agent) and cause all kinds of grief. In the first 24 hours, the paint has only started to cure, but new paint will bond just fine. After 7 days, the paint has fully cured, so painting over that is like painting over the original surface (but the carrier agent in the new paint will soften the existing layer just enough to allow a chemical bond).

But now back to your question. You need to seal the resin prior to doing any painting. This is beacuse the resin is still gassing out (the weeping). If you don't get it to stop or at least seal it in, you'll always run into the same problem. So, here is a simple step-by-step;

1) Wash the resin in warm, soapy water (use a soap that has a grease cutter ingredient).

2) Wash the resin with Simple Green - this is an industrial grease cutter.

3) Wash again with warm soapy water, just to remove any Simple Green residue.

4) Wait a week and see if it's still weeping. If it's not, you're golden and you can prime and paint as usual.

5) If it is, you have uncured resin on your hands which leads us to...

6) You have to seal this resin one way or another. Now, you can use future floor wax or a thin layer of CA glue. I know CA glue will seal against weeping resin. FFW is a tossup depending on the type of resin used to make the piece. Which is why I suggested testing on a small piece.

7) After you've sealed the resin and created a physical barrier between the resin and the paint, you can go ahead and prime, then paint and finally seal with either more FFW or an automotive clear coat.

Hope that clears everything up :cool

-Fred
 
Well, technically, there is a reaction between the primer and the resin. The reaction being is that the primer is not bonding the way it's supposed to.

Before we get too far, here's a little primer on primer (and flat and gloss coats). Primers and flats are flat because of the way the paint is designed to dry. The paint molecules dry pointing in all diffrent directions. This causes reflecting light to scatter, giving the flat coat it's dull appearance. Gloss coats on the other hand, are designed to dry so that the molecules all line up. This refelects light back at a predictable angle and gives the paint it's glossy appearance.

The way primer works is it creates a mechanical bond with the material it's sprayed on. It forms this bond by being a "grit" coat. The grit gets into the microfisions in the resin surface. Then as you spray another coat of primer, it chemically bonds to itself. When you spray your top coat (flat or gloss), it bites into the grit of the primer because it's sitting in all the little grooves in the primer. Then supplemental layers of top coat are chemically bonding to itself. It's also why you have to spray supplemental layers in either the first 24 hours or after 7 days. Any time in between then, the original paint will be curing (degassing and releasing the carrier agent) and cause all kinds of grief. In the first 24 hours, the paint has only started to cure, but new paint will bond just fine. After 7 days, the paint has fully cured, so painting over that is like painting over the original surface (but the carrier agent in the new paint will soften the existing layer just enough to allow a chemical bond).

But now back to your question. You need to seal the resin prior to doing any painting. This is beacuse the resin is still gassing out (the weeping). If you don't get it to stop or at least seal it in, you'll always run into the same problem. So, here is a simple step-by-step;

1) Wash the resin in warm, soapy water (use a soap that has a grease cutter ingredient).

2) Wash the resin with Simple Green - this is an industrial grease cutter.

3) Wash again with warm soapy water, just to remove any Simple Green residue.

4) Wait a week and see if it's still weeping. If it's not, you're golden and you can prime and paint as usual.

5) If it is, you have uncured resin on your hands which leads us to...

6) You have to seal this resin one way or another. Now, you can use future floor wax or a thin layer of CA glue. I know CA glue will seal against weeping resin. FFW is a tossup depending on the type of resin used to make the piece. Which is why I suggested testing on a small piece.

7) After you've sealed the resin and created a physical barrier between the resin and the paint, you can go ahead and prime, then paint and finally seal with either more FFW or an automotive clear coat.

Hope that clears everything up :cool

-Fred

Thanks a bunch Fred that was very very informative. One last question, I went to walmart and found Krylon Matt coat to protect drawings, paintings, art ect... is this like Testors dullcoat or more of a real sealer?From what I read on the can it's water base.

GFollano

GFollano
 
Thanks a bunch Fred that was very very informative. One last question, I went to walmart and found Krylon Matt coat to protect drawings, paintings, art ect... is this like Testors dullcoat or more of a real sealer?From what I read on the can it's water base.

GFollano

GFollano


Krylon matte coats and the like for sealing artwork is nothing more than fancy hairspray. It's a weak adhesive used to keep lead/pastels/coal from dusting off the canvas. Stay away from art stores for stuff like that. You need to go to a hobby shop or go online and get testors dullcoat http://www.megahobby.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3686 or Polly Scale flat for your airbrush.

-Fred
 
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