Harry Potter: Snape Build (HBP)
- Thread starter PadawanLearner
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rickrickrick
Sr Member
Just to add more fuel to the fire, it seems there is a consensus that the costume on exhibit is a reproduction. Perhaps it is not even the right color. God knows Lucasfilm did worse things to reproductions on display than alter the color!
R
R
Darth Mule
Sr Member
We'll just have to agree to disagree.I don't buy that any amount of different reflectivity of the fabric would create such a large difference in HUE.
And WB style guide for what? For illustrations? For officially licensed artwork? Look at the post above with the closeup of Snape's sleeve - nine buttons. The Gentle Giant bust has 12 buttons on the sleeves! Did the sleeves change, or was the artwork in error? I can't even begin to comprehend all the inaccuracies there are in the licensed STAR WARS merchandise (which are discussed on these boards ad nauseum)! So style guides in my opinion are not infallible. Especially since they are generally generated by people who have nothing to do with production.
And all black is not as interesting. Look at the all-black ensemble by Yvette - it is definitely missing "something." I say that something is deep blue.
Rick
Sorry dude. You are t-totally wrong... ish. The costume is indeed all black, however, there is definitely a blue base to the black in the coat (which looks to be a wool flannel if anyone is interested). You see. Depending on what dyes are used to achieve a black, one may reflect light and show through more intensely than others. Try wearing all black under a black light. Your pants may turn red, while your shirt turns blue. Different textures may reflect light differently as well.
I also have to disagree with all black not being as interesting. It can if you know what you're doing. V for Vendetta is a good example of good use of all black. The designer broke up the black by utilizing various textures like a basket weave jacket with a cashmere cloak and twill pants. All very distinctly different textures. This is exactly what is happening with this costume and why it appears blue to you.
FYI. Never argue with a woman over color. They see color more acutely than we do, so they're usually right.
PadawanLearner
Well-Known Member
Also, I would just like to mention that color is always and forever going to be an issue when trying to judge from onscreen/photos versus real life. The photographic eye pics up things way differently than our actual eye.
This is going to forever be a sticking point with costuming and you would do yourself a favor by not trying to stick so hard to one color.
I mean, make the costume as you believe it to be, but don't be so quick to jump down someone's throat if they disagree with you about color.
If you want any examples, look up discussions of Han's jacket from Hoth in ESB. Or even the other jacket he wears in that movie. I'll tell you now, the colors they are in real life are different than they appear on screen and regardless of the fact that they had the actual jacket on display at one of the Star Wars celebrations, there are still people arguing color.
I have to believe that to the naked eye, they will appear black, but with lighting and photography, the colors that are actually in the fabric to make that black are going to reflect differently and make you believe they are something they are not.
This is going to forever be a sticking point with costuming and you would do yourself a favor by not trying to stick so hard to one color.
I mean, make the costume as you believe it to be, but don't be so quick to jump down someone's throat if they disagree with you about color.
If you want any examples, look up discussions of Han's jacket from Hoth in ESB. Or even the other jacket he wears in that movie. I'll tell you now, the colors they are in real life are different than they appear on screen and regardless of the fact that they had the actual jacket on display at one of the Star Wars celebrations, there are still people arguing color.
I have to believe that to the naked eye, they will appear black, but with lighting and photography, the colors that are actually in the fabric to make that black are going to reflect differently and make you believe they are something they are not.
rickrickrick
Sr Member
I have never said that anyone was wrong. I said that I disagreed.
No one has said anything to change my mind, and I have changed no one else's mind - so be it. You say potato, I say potahto.
Darth Mule, did you work on the films? Did you make the costumes? You seem awfully certain, like you have insider knowledge. Yes, you are certainly correct, that the quality of light in which something is seen can change how it looks. That would not explain - to me - why Snape's coat looks deep blue on screen and in EVERY decent photograph I've seen in EVERY lighting condition. I feel the visual evidence is overwhelming. But that's my OPINION. Please feel free to be as wrong as you like. :lol
This discussion about color is officially boring now. Can anyone shed more light on OTHER costume details, like shoes?? Does Snape ever have visible cufflinks?
R
No one has said anything to change my mind, and I have changed no one else's mind - so be it. You say potato, I say potahto.
Darth Mule, did you work on the films? Did you make the costumes? You seem awfully certain, like you have insider knowledge. Yes, you are certainly correct, that the quality of light in which something is seen can change how it looks. That would not explain - to me - why Snape's coat looks deep blue on screen and in EVERY decent photograph I've seen in EVERY lighting condition. I feel the visual evidence is overwhelming. But that's my OPINION. Please feel free to be as wrong as you like. :lol
This discussion about color is officially boring now. Can anyone shed more light on OTHER costume details, like shoes?? Does Snape ever have visible cufflinks?
R
Darth Mule
Sr Member
Actually, if you really read what I said about the blue base of the black instead of just skimming and firing back, it does. Have you never heard the term "Blue Black?"
No I didn't work on the films. But I am a professional costume designer. I do have two degrees in this, a United Scenic Artists membership, and a Broadway gig to show for it. I'd say that makes me pretty qualified to be sure about these things as its my job.
Hey! You asked.
PadawanLearner
Well-Known Member
although you may never said the words "you are wrong" the tone in the words you chose stated it for you. If you never intended to come off as stating people are wrong and it's just an opinion, you may not want to use phrases like, "clearly the color is..."
I'm glad you have your opinion and I could care less whether or not anything anyone has stated has made you sway, I'm simply telling you that trying to debate color for any on-screen costume is pointless and you should come at it with a more soft approach in the future. :cool
I'm glad you have your opinion and I could care less whether or not anything anyone has stated has made you sway, I'm simply telling you that trying to debate color for any on-screen costume is pointless and you should come at it with a more soft approach in the future. :cool
rickrickrick
Sr Member
My tone? How conveniently you've omitted what I truly said, which was:
...and...
...and...
...and...
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
...and...
I never said anything absolute, or snotty like...
...or...
And I obviously read your entire post Darth Mule because I acknowledged it:
BTW:
Blue black? Doesn't that imply black that looks blue? Isn't that what I've been saying? Looks blue? So what is your argument?
Relax, people! And read my words: seems, looks, perhaps, respectfully... I never presumed absolute knowledge, or said anyone was wrong, or disrespected anyone's point of view.
We're here to have fun and talk about things we love.
Now get over it, for pete's sake! BTW, Darth Mule, I am also a professional, and at least around here I act like one.
Rick
PadawanLearner
Well-Known Member
The parts of the phrases I chose wasn't out of convenience but rather for your sake since you seemed to not understand why people were taking offense to your statements. I was merely attempting to point out that if you are wanting to try to pass off a statement as merely an opinion and not fact, you should stay away from words that are absolutes.
Even if you use the so popular IMHO and then follow that with a sentance that infers that everyone else is wrong, they're not going to just take it as your humble opinion but rather you're just telling them they're wrong.
And...that last entry of yours would also contradict your professionalism, just saying...
Even if you use the so popular IMHO and then follow that with a sentance that infers that everyone else is wrong, they're not going to just take it as your humble opinion but rather you're just telling them they're wrong.
And...that last entry of yours would also contradict your professionalism, just saying...
Ghostsoldier
Sr Member
Whoa! I didn't mean to stir up a ruckus! :eek
I agree that color perception is objective, and that variances in lighting, camera angles, retinal cones in a persons eye, etc. that can affect any given image seen. Having been a costumer for over 25 years (non-professional--mostly for myself/family/friends), I'm all too aware of the differences of opinion that can arise when interpreting a certain piece of costume.
In the case of Snape, I personally see a blue-black wool suiting jacket, and black academic robes (of a lighter wool derivative)....the key for me being that they are both black, only different textures and hues (a revision, I know, of my earlier stance---but this thread has made me go back and restudy the images more closely). If one studies the various promo images, dvd viewings and captures (rickrickrick: try VLV media player at http://www.videolan.org/vlc/...it's free, and has screen-capture capabilities), and myriad other online sources, the colors of the 2 articles appear to be different to the layman's naked eye, irregardless of the true textures or hues. I am choosing to replicate that look, only for the fact that it's the most recognizable to the general public.
It's entirely probable that there were several screen-used hero and stunt versions of the costume, not to mention a traveling exhibit example (case-in-point: The Joker costume from The Dark Knight), and the lighting of different scenes and film types affect the final visual output, as shown in the 9-button arm shot I posted---it almost looks to be navy blue.
In short...I think we are all saying the same thing!
Back to the costume....here's a pic I got from somewhere (I don't remember), that shows a small-scale Snape reproduction...you can see the robe arm treatment pretty good here....
And the pants: Does anyone have a suggestion for what period pattern to use?
They look to be flat-front (no pleats), high-waisted with flared legs and are made of wool, like the jacket....that's all I can say, as there isn't much in the way of reference materials around...and I'm also curious if Snape wears braces/suspenders....
Oh, and PadawanLearner...you need to take another shot at this costume....the more, the merrier!
Rob
I agree that color perception is objective, and that variances in lighting, camera angles, retinal cones in a persons eye, etc. that can affect any given image seen. Having been a costumer for over 25 years (non-professional--mostly for myself/family/friends), I'm all too aware of the differences of opinion that can arise when interpreting a certain piece of costume.
In the case of Snape, I personally see a blue-black wool suiting jacket, and black academic robes (of a lighter wool derivative)....the key for me being that they are both black, only different textures and hues (a revision, I know, of my earlier stance---but this thread has made me go back and restudy the images more closely). If one studies the various promo images, dvd viewings and captures (rickrickrick: try VLV media player at http://www.videolan.org/vlc/...it's free, and has screen-capture capabilities), and myriad other online sources, the colors of the 2 articles appear to be different to the layman's naked eye, irregardless of the true textures or hues. I am choosing to replicate that look, only for the fact that it's the most recognizable to the general public.
It's entirely probable that there were several screen-used hero and stunt versions of the costume, not to mention a traveling exhibit example (case-in-point: The Joker costume from The Dark Knight), and the lighting of different scenes and film types affect the final visual output, as shown in the 9-button arm shot I posted---it almost looks to be navy blue.
In short...I think we are all saying the same thing!
Back to the costume....here's a pic I got from somewhere (I don't remember), that shows a small-scale Snape reproduction...you can see the robe arm treatment pretty good here....
And the pants: Does anyone have a suggestion for what period pattern to use?
They look to be flat-front (no pleats), high-waisted with flared legs and are made of wool, like the jacket....that's all I can say, as there isn't much in the way of reference materials around...and I'm also curious if Snape wears braces/suspenders....
Oh, and PadawanLearner...you need to take another shot at this costume....the more, the merrier!
Rob
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rickrickrick
Sr Member
Perhaps is an absolute?? :lol
Wow, great pix, again, Ghostsoldier!
I never saw that dart on the inside of the bottom of the pants before! Excellent!
I am planning on using the California pants pattern by Laughing Moon (http://www.lafnmoon.com/california_pants.htm). It's a bit overly complicated, with the treatment in back and the button fly and all, but I think it has the right basic profile. Except for the flare and buttons at the bottom - I'll have to create those details myself.
I'd bet on suspenders - seems appropriate for a uptight kinda guy!
Cheers.
Rick
Wow, great pix, again, Ghostsoldier!
I never saw that dart on the inside of the bottom of the pants before! Excellent!
I am planning on using the California pants pattern by Laughing Moon (http://www.lafnmoon.com/california_pants.htm). It's a bit overly complicated, with the treatment in back and the button fly and all, but I think it has the right basic profile. Except for the flare and buttons at the bottom - I'll have to create those details myself.
I'd bet on suspenders - seems appropriate for a uptight kinda guy!
Cheers.
Rick
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Ghostsoldier
Sr Member
Ooohh...nice pants pattern, Rick! :thumbsup I think I'll get myself a set of those patterns....and I agree on the suspenders: part of Snape's animosity against Harry stems, no doubt, as the result of the "pants removing spell" incident that James Potter perpetrated on him as a teen...it would only seem fitting that he would wear them! :lol
Rob
Rob
JoMamma_Smurf
Master Member
I'm on the blue wagon!!!! WANNA' FIGHT?!?!? J/K.....Anyway...Those are great pics of snape BTW.
Oni Warlord
Member
Well, if you want to get technical here, there is no "true" black color, just very dark shades of other colors. Snape's outfit is black, but a blue shade of black. :ninja
Darth Mule
Sr Member
Obviously not, because then you said:
Which completely disregarded what I said about different base colors of black. Granted, I may have not been as clear and concise as Oni:
When it comes to creating color, black is actually the presence of all color, while white is the absence (as an aside, this is opposite when dealing with lighting). Once black is achieved, there will always be a dominant color in the combination that will lend its overall tone to the black.
That was my argument. My apologies if it wasn't clearer.
Laughing Moon makes some great patterns. However, there is a very similar pants pattern to this one in McCall's Civil War frock pattern #M4745. The pattern has a nice Victorian cut to it and will be a bit less expensive than the Laughing moon if you go to Hancock on the right day. Hancock often sells their patterns at a pretty nice markdown. If you catch them on the right sale you can get them for $0.99 to 50% off. Just a suggestion. You will have to cut them long and adjust the width of the lower leg to get that taper.
And you can't go wrong with suspenders. Especially with high waisted pants.
Ghostsoldier
Sr Member
Funny you should suggest that, Darth Mule...I was just thinking the same thing! I bought that McCall's CW pattern to use for the Snape jacket, and I studied the pants to see if I could modify them to work, and I think I can.
Rob
Rob
rickrickrick
Sr Member
I suggested the Laughing Moon pattern because I believe it is closer in style to Snape's pants with less alteration. The legs taper more than the Civil War costume pattern, and the waist is higher. The Laughing Moon pattern is, however, somewhat more complex to begin with, so if you're comfortable with doing more alteration on the McCall's pattern, go forth.
So in my opinion, Laughing Moon = more work just sewing, McCall's = more work altering.
R
So in my opinion, Laughing Moon = more work just sewing, McCall's = more work altering.
R
Sparticle
Well-Known Member
Patterns?!? *Sniff* I make my own patterns!
(maybe because I'm shaped funny:lol)
This is my wife in one of our creations
http://www.robynsroost.com/scarby07/week1/scarb013.JPG
(maybe because I'm shaped funny:lol)
This is my wife in one of our creations
http://www.robynsroost.com/scarby07/week1/scarb013.JPG
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