Graflex Variations: Facts and vs. Replica

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by scottjua, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. scottjua

    scottjua Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In my quest to build my near screen accurate Luke ANH, and Luke ESB, I've learned a lot about Graflex Flashes and the replicas over the past couple of months.

    I posted all of this on the fx-sabers forums, but I thought it might be useful and helpful here too.

    When I started I got my hands on some different Vintages of vintage Graflex Flashes, including a Replica, so here's what I found (I know there is an even earlier style, with the "telegraph style button", but I haven't seen one):

    [​IMG]

    First is my findings on the Bottom Tube Stampings. There are 3 that I have found so far: Folmer Graflex, Folmer Graflex with Patent, Graflex Inc with Patent, and of course then there's the Replica of the original no patent Folmer Graflex

    From what I can tell the earliest manufactured Flash Tubes had just Folmer Graflex with no patent number stamped in.
    [​IMG]

    Then with Patent
    [​IMG]

    Graflex Inc with patent
    [​IMG]

    And the Replica. You can clearly see the lack of depth and detail in direct comparison. These photos at 100% really get into the grit of the metal and you can see just how shallow the replica stamping is in comparison to a real vintage.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here's also a vintage 2 cell
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The vintage flashes also seem to have the two brass pins like mentioned earlier in this thread. Here's more shots of them:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now the Clamps. The Vintage clamp as far as I can tell has no appreciable design change. Some seem to have black lettering, and others no color to the lettering. Here's a shot of a Vintage clamp next to the replica. The stamping is pretty good on the replica and comes super close. You can tell that there's a similar lack of depth to the markings to the bottom stamp
    [imgwidth=300 height=210]http://www.scottandtemphotography.com/graflexSaber/sm3/R20120205-030502.jpg[/img]

    The lever is the biggest tell... and my replica has some even easier to spot (other than the polished finish) mold or cast lines on the underside of the lever.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The bulb holder set screw is also different. The vintage has a rounded flat head screw that counter sinks into the tube nicely. The replica has a flat screw that sticks up a little.
    [​IMG]

    The bunny ears are held on by a rivet on the vintage and screw on the replica
    [​IMG]

    The "beer tab" rivet is also different. The vintage's rivet shows fine machine grooves, and has a chamfered edge. The replica is flat and generally smooth.
    [​IMG]

    Now more shots of the three buttons I've seen (is there a fourth, parfaitlumiere?)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    The Glass Eye: I was surprised to find three distinctly different vintage glass eyes. Check these out: The one from the early flash has a very flat top lip with more right angles. The middle, is more curved, but still has machining marks. The third is the later model flashes with a polished inside flare.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    While looking closer and getting these ready to sell I found some more unique variations:

    First up... the battery tubes. They're all different...

    The Folmer Graflex with Patent is the same size as the Replica, the Graflex Inc. w/ Patent is the same as the Folmer Graflex with no patent. The Anomoly is the one tube I have with the modified clamp. It has a brass edge where the others do no, which leads me to believe it may have been shaved or cut since it is shorted than all of them. Weird.

    From L to R: (Shaved?) Graflex Inc. 3 Cell, Folmer Graflex w/Patent, Folmer Graflex, Graflex Inc. w/Patent, Replica, 2 Cell
    [​IMG]


    Next when I was looking closer, the early buttons with short knurling are different too. The early Folmer Graflex *is shorter overall slightly, with slightly longer knurling, and a more tapered edge on top. The Folmer Graflex w/patent has shorter knurling, but a beveled edge of the knurling that is more pronounced, and has a flat top.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Finally, the Graflex Inc one I have... and only this one has two dimples in the blade/bulb clamp. None of the others have this
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I have one more detail to photograph and show ( I noticed the older of the ones I have (consistent across two) have a more chromey/shiny clamp lever and overall finish (you can kind of tell in the other photos of the finish). I'll get shots today and post them soon.


    Anyway... thought I'd share my findings. ^_^


    UPDATE: January 2017. FIVE YEARS later we have the first of a few NEWLY made Replicas hit the market. Roman's Empire just started shipping his replica Graflex that is MORE accurate in some ways to the past Parks replicas that have been so common. The Parks replicas are gone in their original guise, and so we need some new reference on the tells of the new Roman Replica so we can tell them apart when they start hitting auction sites.

    Roman and his shop did a fantastic job of designing this to be close enough, but have some easy to spot tells so that no one gets scammed.


    There are some finish variances in the batch as happens with ALL mass produced items, but the following are so far consistent with this first early batch that are getting into people's hands.


    Here's my findings:


    Roman’s new replica is based on the more sought after FOLMER Graflex corp variant. On the far right you see how they have been showing up. With the bottom cap nickel plate in very shiny chrome-like appearance. Far left you see, what a scotch brite pad will do with minimal pressure and work.
    [​IMG]


    You can easily spot the tell for the Roman's Empire replica
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    The manufacturer hasn’t completely rolled the crimp on the bottom cap, causing a sharp visible line
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Aside from some obvious finish variances, the new replica clamp with painted lettering has one obvious tell. The “G” and “X” in the word G R A F L E X stamped across the clamp face, overlap the registration bar stamping holes. The real vintage clamps line up with the leading edge. Older Parks clamps come short in comparison. That said, and not pictured, Roman’s summer 2016 stand alone clamp run is DEAD ON to a real clamp… but much cleaner in finish.
    [​IMG]


    The “beer tab” on a vintage has a more muted, bead blasted finish, where the new replica is very shiny. The beer tab rivet is turned now, and exhibits the turning/machining pattern, but doesn’t seem to have the correct chamfer.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Slight differences can be seen in the slide switch as well
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    As new, Roman’s Glass Eye, is of the shiny variety, that was more common on later Patent Graflex Inc. Flashes
    [​IMG]


    Vintage FOLMER Graflex flashes had a few variations of glass eye. The more common was a brushed or satin finish to a rounded bevel
    [​IMG]


    A lathe and light scotch brite pad work can transform the shiny Roman glass eye
    [​IMG]


    Easily overlooked, but once you see it you can’t miss it… The bunny ears exhibit numerous tells. The Roman ears are taller and of slightly thinner stock. Shapes are different as well.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    If I remember correctly… ALL of my FOLMER flashes had straight, smooth post sync pins
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    The red buttons on the replica are ALMOST indistinguishable from Parks’ old replicas. But very obviously NOT the same as a vintage. The shapes are different, as are the finishes. However, you can achieve a more vintage look on the very chrome replica button with a lathe and some scotch brite.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Finally… MOST if not all REAL FOLMER Graflex flashes have square based top sync pins.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  2. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Nice job.
    I'll add that the spacing of the lettering on the clamp 'GRAFLEX' is different than on the original.
    The lettering starts further to the left on the original and has more space between each letter as well.



    .
     
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  3. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Hello there,

    Here's a picture of the so-called 'telegraph' button :

    [​IMG]

    and the bottom :

    [​IMG]

    -Chaim
     
  4. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Here's what's wrong with this post - all it does is make it easier for the forgers to make better replicas. Why would we want to do that?

    Every time a replica maker makes a better replica, there's a chance that they're going to charge people for an vintage, authentic graflex. Would you want to pay $300 for a replica?

    I get that you're trying to be helpful, but these posts are helpful to the wrong people. This is an issue that the board has been dealing with for a long time.

    -Fred
     
  5. Filandrius

    Filandrius Well-Known Member

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    Nevertheless, this exact info (on the fx-sabers forum) helped me avoid buying a fake one at the price of a real one, very recently. So thank you very much. :)
     
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  6. James Kenobi 1138

    James Kenobi 1138 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I think Jeff Parks has put just about everyone out of the replica Graflex business.

    Making a Graflex that looks anything like a real one cost a lot of money. Parks has it down to a science in a China factory and charges like $150 for a replica. If you were going to try and make replica Graflex's you would either be making them in your garage for a lot of time and money, or trying to make them in a factory for tons of up-front money.

    If you're meaning that someone will take a Parks and make it 'more accurate' there are tells, like the endcap stamping, that make is identifiable to those who are informed. It's hard enough to tell a replica from a real one looking at tiny ebay photos and if you're in the market for more then a few you're probably going to get burned no matter what.

    I can see how a post like this might help someone convert replicas into 'real' flashes, but I think it better serves those looking to not get scammed into buying a replica thinking it's a real Graflex.
     
  7. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    I get that these kind of posts can help you avoid getting scammed, but all we're doing is making it easier for the scammers to make it harder to tell the difference. If we tell the scam artists what they're doing wrong, what's to keep them from doing it right? And then passing the scam off on to us?

    If a genuine graflex can fetch $300+, someone with the money and the means can make the perfect replica, and scam the entire community.



    I'll use a recent episode of Sons of Guns as an example. Joe Perry (of Aerosmith fame) believed he had, in his possession, a .38 revolver, once owned by Elvis. The only way to prove that it was his pistol, was by looking for a personalized mark that Elvis put on all of his guns. Now, when they went to verify this, they kept all the cameras and recording equipemt out of the room. Why? So forgers wouldn't know what the mark was and where it was located. Showing the mark could have kept other gun buyers from getting scammed, if they knew what to look for. But you don't want to tip off the forgers, either.


    A flood of dead-on, perfect replicas does nothing but tank the hobby. Think about this - suppose you thought you had a saber built on an authentic graflex, then one day, you find out it's built on a superior replica. All of a sudden, the "specialness" of your saber just goes away. Go to any Rolex forum and see how they feel about people with the knock-offs that are * near perfect, for 1/20th the price.

    I'll even give you an example from my personal experience. My Luke ANH is an authentic vintage graflex. I bought at a small pawn shop in eastern PA, for $10 plus tax. Because of it's heritage, it's probably one of my most cherished props. My luke ESB, is built on an authentic graflex 2 cell, that I got at a flea market in south Jersey, for $5. The bottom half is a BB&B salt shaker conversion and the second red button is a replica. I like the saber, but I don't care all that much about it, even though it was my first graflex. My ANH and ESB Vaders are both Park sabers. Even though they are perfect replicas, they don't mean a thing to me, because I know they're not real flash handles. Imagine how annoyed I'd be if I thought that, when I did purchase them, they were authentic, only to find out later, that they weren't.

    For every argument for, there's an equally valid argument against. I say we don't make the forgers' job, any easier.

    -Fred
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  8. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    People that no what to look for do not buy replica graflexes thinking they are originals. It is people that do not know the differences that get scammed. Informing the public stops scamming a lot more than it provides scammer with tools to pull one over on a buyer. Posts like these do a hell of a lot more good than they do ill. If you look at the big scams that have occurred in the prop community, it was not the result of too much information being out there. It was the result of too little info being shared. The reason why people got taken in by the big scams like Mark English and such is because information wasn't being shared. It's because information was being held back among a small group of people, which allowed people who only knew the basics to be taken in. If a scammer is going to go through all the effort of producing a dead on accurate graflex replica and passing it off as an original, he will no doubt buy an original himself and copy the details. There is no way that the info in this thread would contribute to scamming. The people who buy replica graflexes thinking their originals do so because they don't know what to look for and when the see a patent pending stamp and the letters graflex printed on the clamp they think it's the real deal. And without a post like this being circulated their's no available resource to tell them any different. Getting an informed public is always a good thing.
     
  9. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    No, everyone has a valid point here,
    Gigatron is right - looking at it from another point of view not our own, this could be a way for people to make better Graflex Replicas and sell them for a vintage price (for want of a better term). That's true, there's nothing that really says no.

    Others are right as well , - If you're really looking for a vintage flash gun you're going to do your homework. There just might be more homework with more accurate details.

    Nobody is really contradicting anyone here, it's just two facts about the same situation.

    Has anyone come across a graflex with something buffed out on the bottom? On mine, which is vintage, the "3 Cell" has been perfectly buffed out like a rectangle with half circles for short sides. I'm not sure why haha
     
  10. James Kenobi 1138

    James Kenobi 1138 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I've seen those before and wondered if they were stamped with the 2-cell plate either by accident or because the 3-cell plate was being replaced. I would imagine the factory just wiped the '2 cell' part off.
     
  11. scottjua

    scottjua Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    wow... I was out this weekend and this thread blew up. Great conversation and debate about furnishing this type of info publicly.

    Obviously I feel I'm on the side of sharing more and educating everyone only arms us against the scammers, but I DO see the other side, and it is equally valid and concerning.

    @Sym-Cha: Thanks for the pics! I haven't seen but one other photo a while back of that one. Very cool!
     
  12. Filandrius

    Filandrius Well-Known Member

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    Personally I'm way more worried about what the lack of information. Like I've said earlier I would've bought a fake as a real one if I hadn't had access to the info, and I was in a position in the past where I lost a lot of money because of information that wasn't shared or hoarded on purpose. I guess it all depends on the information and the situation. Anyway, thanks again, Scott. :)
     
  13. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    A cool thing I learned was that all those holes and plugs near the top were actually for plugging things into the flash gun, the two at the front and the side sockets, I'm not sure what photo equipment went in there, but I saw a 3 cell used like it was supposed to, all tressed up and my mouth dropped, i never thought.

    one of the plugs http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/GRAFLITE/Graflexplug.jpg

    and this site shows the middle plug being used for an LED test to not waste bulbs
    All about Graflex Flashgun synchonizing. Cords and Bulbs
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
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  14. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    @scottjua : you're welcome.

    @thd9791 : I have a 4x5" speed graphic and a crown special and several bulbflashes + the cords. I'll leave one graflex 3 cell just as is, so it shall be ready to use as a flashgun in the near future.

    -Chaim
     
  15. Funky

    Funky Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Any chance we can archive this thread? Some information here! :thumbsup
     
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  16. Jerome

    Jerome Active Member

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    I'm all for the detailed information shared on this post. It serves a great purpose to educate people from spotting fakes. In order to be able to detect fakes you must learn what a real one looks like. Similar to how bank tellers learn how to spot counterfeit notes; they don't learn by studying a counterfeit note, they learn by studying the real thing so they know how to spot the counterfeit.
     
  17. ecl

    ecl Sr Member

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    Great thread! Very informative
     
  18. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    @James Kenobi: good thoughts, that makes sense. I wondered if the previous owner did that, but that sounded ridiculous - he was a camera collector

    @Sym Cha, very cool, I've always loved the sentiment of vintage photography
     
  19. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    But the bank doesn't have a website about the intricate watermarks and telltale signs, pointing out all the things that the counterfeiters do wrong, do they? And you know why - so the counterfeiters can't make a better fake bill. Know why the US Mint doesn't have website detailing all their anti-counterfeiting measures, like cotton blend, red/blue thread counts, watermarks, etc.? So the counterfeiters can't make a perfect fake.

    Sure, knowing every single thing that differentiates a real note from a counterfeit would be awesome. It would certainly have helped me when I tried to deposit some cash, and one of the $20s turned out to be a counterfeit. But, if you tell a counterfeiter every detail that they missed, they're just going to perfect theirs.

    I'm all for the dissemination of information, just not where it's publicly available to those that would use said information, to screw you over.

    I just don't want to see people posting about their real, vintage saber, just to find out it's a perfect fake.

    -Fred
     
  20. Filandrius

    Filandrius Well-Known Member

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    I think I see your point now. There's the whole "real vs. replica" debate which is two different situations, really. When you expect to buy a replica (because the real part is too expensive or too rare, for example) it's useful that the info be made public, or you get into situations where inaccurate replicas are sold as 100% accurate because of hoarded info. But when there's the potential of replicas sold as genuine items? That's counterfeiting, and is a completely different scenario. Yes the public info can be used to prevent this, but can be abused just as easily. We need to have some experts that can be consulted privately (but then, who would prevent the counterfeiters from consulting said experts?)
     
  21. Qui-Gonzalez

    Qui-Gonzalez Master Member

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    Really though Fred, what are the odds of that happening? Slim at best, I would wager. We are a niche market, not counterfeiting dollar bills and such. Information like this should be shared and posted.
     
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  22. darendoc

    darendoc New Member

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    Just to be devil's advocate here... these things would be worth nothing if it weren't for their value as a prop recreation... so if the replicas get better and better, what's the problem? If it's a question of not wanting to pay that much for a replica... don't pay that much. If you're getting into this for the "investment"... unless it's screen used, what's the point in that either. Just have fun, and play with lightsabers... and don't support inflationary prices on anything, replicas or originals.
     
  23. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    The problem they're pointing out is when a replica is sold as an original/genuine one.
     
  24. Kittlemeier

    Kittlemeier Well-Known Member

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    I'd still love to find one of these. Anyone have one they're willing to part with?
     
  25. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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  26. TJack

    TJack Master Member Community Staff RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I for one really appreciate threads like this. Because of the available info, I feel pretty confident that I purchased an authentic vintage graflex inc w/patent #.

    I was very hesitant to buy it at first because the price seemed to good to be true but after talking to a few members and showing them some of the pics I requested from the seller, I feel really good about the purchase.

    My only concern is that mine appears to have had the "beer tab" removed and the rivet is slightly damaged - probably from prying off the tab.

    Is there a way to replace/repair this?
     
  27. Qui-Gonzalez

    Qui-Gonzalez Master Member

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  28. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    And maybe when he gets out, he'll know what mistakes he made, correct them and make better fakes, so he won't get caught.

    I'm just saying, get this information off the publicly available part of the site. At least make the scammers have to do some work before they rip all of you off.

    -Fred
     
  29. Qui-Gonzalez

    Qui-Gonzalez Master Member

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    I'm going to keep disagreeing. Sorry, man. This place has always been about information exchanging. You don't have to really work hard anymore to get at anything on the RPF, so why even make the attempt to conceal something like this. I'd wager most Graflexs that hit the bay are repros anyway. No need to focus on the negative aspect.
     
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  30. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    You can absolutely disagree - that's the great part about this place :cool.

    Maybe I'm jaded from living/working in NYC, where fakes and knock-offs are hustled as "real" on * near every street corner. Heck, I belong to forum whose only function is to try and help the overseas manufacturers make perfect replicas. Doesn't bother me, because I'd never buy the real deal, nor try to pass mine off as real. But owners of the authentic items do nothing but get * off every time a better replica hits the market. Most of their time is spent trying to shut that forum down.

    Everyone is in favor of information overload, until it affects them negatively.

    -Fred
     
  31. Qui-Gonzalez

    Qui-Gonzalez Master Member

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    You have to take the good consequences with the bad. In a case like this, the good FAR outweigh the bad.
     
  32. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    @TJack : you can still use it for an ESB version lightsaber which had the beer tab removed although this would imply you'd probably have to get another red button and a real Kobold Flash Clamp for the D-ring eventhough there is an ESB version with only one red button in the glass eye socket . . . or you could make a Vader ROTJ lightsaber out of it by dismantling it further however this still means getting a Kobold Flash Clamp for the D-ring assembly :lol

    -Chaim
     
  33. Dewback_Rider

    Dewback_Rider Active Member

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    I saw the top portion of one of the telegraph style Graflex you show here years ago while searching for my first Graflex.

    I passed on it because it didn't fit what I needed for my ANH saber.

    In hindsight, I would love to have it.
     
  34. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    The telegraph Graflex was used on the Pre Production Boba Fett (Supertrooper style) blaster.
     
  35. Flix4Me

    Flix4Me Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Where's Jim? I'll go with whatever he says...


    KC
     
  36. TJack

    TJack Master Member Community Staff RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thanks Chaim. I'm wanting it as a Luke ESB to wear/display with my Taun Taun. I'll openly admit that I don't know a lot about sabers so I'm not 100% sure what you are meaning with regards to the red button/D-ring info. Mine has 2 red buttons and a D-ring (although the ring looks a lot different than then the screen accurate ones I've seen).

    I don't want to hijack the thread, maybe pm me and I can send you some pics of it.
     
  37. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    I agree with the majority here that having the info out there is more important than not sharing due to fear of counterfeiters.

    Right now the ONLY one making replica Graflexes is Parks. He has the infrastructure and customer base to sell them. Essentially, he is a manufacturer, seller and distributor. He's cornered the market.
    It is highly unlikely anyone would even try to compete with him. It's just not worth it. It would cost too much money to start up.
    To any smaller makers it would cost too much per individual unit. They couldn't be made cheaper than an original and certainly not to compete with Parks.
    Even if someone did start a big production, there would always be "tells" in any replica. They'd never be perfect. From everything I've heard about cheap Chinese production you never get exactly what you ask for from the factory.

    If you're thinking Parks will "correct" his replicas... I honestly don't think he cares. He's never been overly concerned with accuracy. He's also not the one trying to pass the replicas off as real.

    This is a nice thread for comparisons between all the variations.
    Maybe some others could chime in with pics of the older replicas like Larbel/PB and Graflex Reborn.
     
  38. bigcow

    bigcow Well-Known Member

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    Ok , super information but which is the one get ! MORE ACCURATE !!!

    SHOW SOME PICTURES PLEASE :cool
     
  39. Flix4Me

    Flix4Me Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Good idea, Chris. I don't think I have one of those rusting Reborns. And let's not forget about Biskit, which I know I don't have. But...

    In the beginning, there was Larbel... And it was good...

    The first mass produced Graflex reproductions made for our saber needs.

    Note the added "PB" on the endcap to make it obvious that they were not original Graflexes.

    KC


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  40. Filandrius

    Filandrius Well-Known Member

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    Ha, Larbel. Classic. I never should've sold mine, for the historic value alone.
     
  41. Jedi2016

    Jedi2016 Sr Member

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    I used to have four or five of these things, now down to just one. But it's all original, and as far as I know, fully functional. The "saber" version of the bottom is a replica, I have the real 3-cell bottom in a box somewhere, along with a reflector that's in very good shape. I keep meaning to find some flashbulbs and see if it will still pop (I know the focus light still works).
     
  42. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Those Larbels are pretty cool, before my time sadly. Why were there holes punctured in the bottom? and around the base
     
  43. Robert McLain

    Robert McLain Sr Member

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    The holes in the base are for the attachment of the D ring and the ones on the sides are for the ESB style grips. Note: Back in the day it was thought a two hole D ring was used but it's since been found that a single hole version was used.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a pic of the ESB grips.
    [​IMG]



    Robert:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  44. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    :facepalm DUH! thank you :lol for some reason I pictured that as how it came, not mid-conversion.
     
  45. Luis88

    Luis88 New Member

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    the telegraph graflex is interesting.

    the whole thread is an interestesing read.
     
  46. Luis88

    Luis88 New Member

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    the telegraph graflex is interesting.

    the whole thread is an interestesing read.
     
  47. Tan Djarka

    Tan Djarka Sr Member

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    :facepalm What he said. You're making a REPLICA of a prop but the Graflex has to be REAL? Even then, however visually accurate your replica may be, there's still some things that will never be "real", like the D-ring or grips. Just get a replica so the photo enthusiaists and collectors will stop whining about "those Star Wars fans destroying photographic history".

    If having a real Graflex somehow makes you feel better about it, well... I just don't know what to say about that. If you want one, maybe it's a good idea to be as educated about vintage flashes as the props made with them. It couldn't hurt.

    And if someone does start passing off replicas as real, I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.
     
  48. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I agree as well. It does feel better having an original graflex, but that's not necessarily for the lightsaber's sake. For me it's cool to have something the prop-makers back then would have used. If I had a replica I would be equally as happy - prop wise. Maybe for nostalgia's sake i'd be a little bummed, but that's not really a prop-thing.

    I think people are worried about $400 flash guns showing up on the market that aren't actually from the 50's (or w.e time period we're talking about), but with these details, they might be able to sell them to people willing to pay more for a real item rather than a great copy by parks.

    Though, honestly, I wouldn't even pay that for a real one. These things are worthless to camera collectors, comparatively. Graflites are 25-50 bucks, the only thing making these any more special is the lack of plastic and the cameras they come with. The only reason they go over $200 is that we are so desperate for them.

    I do believe, though that there will always be some way to tell if it's real. If not, well these things aren't crap, even the replicas are sturdy impressive pieces of equipment. Just don't spend more than Parks on anything and work out the details from there...
     
    redbutton likes this.
  49. Flix4Me

    Flix4Me Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    IIRC when these were offered you had the choice of predrilled ANH or ESB patterned holes. As Robert McLain wrote, they were for the mounting of the grips and D-ring. These were made specifically for conversion into lightsaber replicas.


    KC

     
  50. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Ooh, that's cool. it makes sense now that i think about it, the ones out now are also classified as working flashguns, it would make sense to tap them if they were specifically for lightsaber replicas
     
    redbutton likes this.

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