Ghostbusters movie by Paul Feig

Semantics. It's not related to the classic Ghostbusters.

Ok, and? So what?

If you don't want to see it, don't see it.

Don't claim that it's "not related," or at least clarify that you keep needlessly reiterating that this film is a reboot, as opposed to implying that this film shouldn't be called Ghostbusters because it doesn't meet your criteria.


How is TNG's existing in the exact same story universe as the original series a superficial similarity???? It's a continuation, plain and simple. The same characters show up in the show! Their history is discussed reverently by the new characters. TROLL.

Strawman. Did not say that that existing in the same universe was a "superficial similarity." Rather, it was a satirical quid pro quo on your argument that proton packs and the like are "superficial." Moreover, looking at the production side of things on TNG paints an entirely different picture of what you're trying to argue. But this is really a tangent.

The larger point is that you keep trying to delineate this new GB from other franchises by illustrating things that are supposedly different. But if we apply those things outside of GB, it makes no sense.

The Spider-Man franchise is about to get it's third reboot. Nobody cried about how Andrew Garfield wasn't Spider-Man because those movies didn't acknowledge the previous films. Is the new Fantastic 4 "not related" to the Fantastic 4 since the origin story changes?
 
Getting a new actor to play Peter Parker ain't the same thing as saying Melissa McCarthy came up with the Ghostbusters. Everything you're arguing is pointless. There's no movie to consider, only Sony's process to date. I'll consider the movie on its merits when they make one, and I'll rail against Sony's process while I watch it unfold so hideously. I've never criticized Feig's Ghostbusters movie because there isn't one to review. I even said that the movie may be good, that a reboot may be one valid approach to the property - but I wish they'd gotten there in any deliberate way. Are you so happy with the drivel Hollywood cranks out that you wouldn't appreciate them coming at beloved properties in a more considered fashion?
 
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The Spider-Man franchise is about to get it's third reboot. Nobody cried about how Andrew Garfield wasn't Spider-Man because those movies didn't acknowledge the previous films. Is the new Fantastic 4 "not related" to the Fantastic 4 since the origin story changes?

There is a difference, in Spiderman it was still Peter Parker, in the Fantastic 4 all the same characters are there, Doom is there, they are played by different actors. If the next spider man is John Smith from South Dakota and he fights crime at Mount Rushmore you may feel different. Which is what he is saying. Not saying I agree but I can see some of his point of it not being "The Ghostbusters", I still think its a Ghostbusters movie but its not "The Ghostbusters".
 
Maybe time will prove me wrong, but, I don't see this as a reboot.

Everything that's been said seems to be we want to do an original story (which is fine) and we want no real connection to the original movies (again fine). We want to use all women (couldn't care less), etc, etc.

Why are you calling it ghostbusters? They clearly want no tie to the original, so why the name? Easy, to capitalize on it. Get an instant audience. There's no other reason. Period. Why not call it Ghosts, Inc? Paranormal Exterminators? Ghost Patrol? (I can come up with alternate titles all day).

It's admirable to want to do your own thing. It's pathetic to do your own thing and then use a name from an existing property to try and force an audience.
 
Because if the movie is good, why does anything else matter?

From my perspective, it's bad because it's far, far more likely to not be good if the creative process is based not on creativity and storytelling, but rather on selling brand names to people. "Ghostbusters" and "Paul Feig" are the brands that Sony wants associated with their attempt to launch a franchise based on an existing IP to which they own the rights. If the film tanks...well, actually, knowing Sony, there's every chance they'll say "Ok, do over" and re-re-reboot it until they get a formula that works (see also, Spider-Man).

In general, I think this approach to the creative process is a terrible one. The main reason is that it stifles creativity. The Wachowskis may have had rather large flops with their non-Matrix films, but I give them massive credit for at least bringing a sense of artistic integrity to the process, and I credit the studio heads willing to take a chance with them and their very-hard-to-turn-into-a-30-second-pitch ideas. When all we get are reboots and remakes of existing IP, creativity dwindles. Think about if we just end up getting endless iterations of Spider-Man battling the Green Goblin for the next 20 years as our summer blockbusters. Imagine how many freaking times we'll have to see Peter getting bitten by a radioactive/mutated/genetically enhanced/cybernetic/nanotech/whoseewhatsit spider. But that's the direction studios like Sony have been headed. They lack any real creative vision and rely entirely on brands.

And when they get their hands on brands that you actually like, they are as likely to totally botch them as they are to create a real hit. Why? Because they have zero interest in storytelling. They want to sell brands. They leave the storytelling to the writers, actors, and directors, but if the creative team butchers the story, Sony doesn't care as long as opening and second weekend hit the necessary targets, and the suits think the best way to ensure that is to just keep making the same **** over and over again, but packaging it in a different can every so often.

I'm tired of that.

Compare that approach to what Marvel's doing. Yes, they're selling brands, but they also seem deeply connected to the storytelling aspect of their brands. They have made BIG bets on their stories -- not just their brands -- and they're committed to them. I'm sure there will inevitably be reboots or changes of the guard. We've already seen that with Age of Ultron signalling a shift in who's an Avenger. RDJ won't be Iron Man forever, folks. And that's ok, because I trust the Marvel folks to care about telling a good story more than they care about whether they have the hottest actor they can squeeze eight sequels out of.

Storytelling matters. I grant you that sometimes these kinds of processes can produce good stories, but more often than not, what folks like the people at Sony do works at cross purposes to good storytelling. And adhering to this process basically means we'll be far more likely to see crappy film after crappy film.

I think people get hung up on the "reboot" word. Its a new movie based on the idea of Ghostbusters. When they replace James Bond every few movies no one talks about it being a reboot. And those movies are as inconsistent a franchise of movies as there is. Yet everyone still considers them all part of the franchise.

Bond doesn't exactly work there. From Connery up through Brosnan, it was all in the same continuity. With Craig, we see the first hard reboot of Bond, but Skyfall even brought that into question by including stuff like the Aston Martin DB6 and Bond's history as the son of Scottish nobility.

We will see if it holds up to the originals, but I have no hesitation in saying it will be a Ghosbusters movie and spoken along side the originals, even if the story does not run consistent thru them.

Only because of the brand. Seriously. You strip the brand away, and this would be "Paul Feig's crappy knockoff of Ghostbusters."

Hey, remember Evolution? That Ivan Reitman film with David Duchovny and the guy from Juwanna Mann? Remember how it was basically a crappy Ghostbusters knockoff featuring mutated dinosaurs instead of Ghosts? If you strip out the IP veneer from Feig's version, that's all people would say this film was. But slap the IP on and suddenly folks give it the benefit of the doubt.

This is why Sony executives use this approach: they know people fall for it.


James Bond is an entirely unique beast, a worse metaphor than the Star Trek reboot. You're talking about a franchise which evolved over decades and dozens of films, just reflecting modern audience tastes and keeping the character rooted in current times. They weren't reboots - just lazy sequels. The character was the same person from Connery through Brosnan. You could argue that Daniel Craig's films represent the first actual reboot of the character in the film history, and even so it features the same title character working within the same organization - even answering to Pierce Brosnan's boss! Can anyone point to a true reboot of a beloved franchise that scraps the core characters and elements (not the superficial stuff), nevermind one that people actually appreciate?

Bingo.

I'll admit I'm hoping it's an easily forgotten footnote to the brand, like Lazenby as James Bond or Burton's Apes movie, but that's just reflective of my preference for the franchise to recognize its origins in the future. If the movie is good, I'll like it for whatever it is. That's really separate from thinking Sony's development and marketing process is a mess - that's all I'm critical of at this point. It's really all we have to consider. The people trying to hold up a hypothetically decent movie as an argument against thinking Sony's mishandled this have nothing to point to, and should one materialize against all odds and against Hollywood's track record that still won't be a validation of Sony's "process."

To be fair, Lazenby's film is actually one of the best in the series (in my opinion), and Lazenby might have turned out to be a great Bond...but we'll never know. His "not Connery" status was too much for audiences, and that was that. But OHMSS is truly one of my favorite Bond films and one that's very true to the literary version (which is mostly my preferred version, with some of the "rough spots" smoothed out for the sake of modernity).

There is a difference, in Spiderman it was still Peter Parker, in the Fantastic 4 all the same characters are there, Doom is there, they are played by different actors. If the next spider man is John Smith from South Dakota and he fights crime at Mount Rushmore you may feel different. Which is what he is saying. Not saying I agree but I can see some of his point of it not being "The Ghostbusters", I still think its a Ghostbusters movie but its not "The Ghostbusters".

Actually, I'd say the new FF film is a good example of "You might have a brand, but that's about it." The FF movie looks mildly entertaining. It also doesn't really look like an FF movie to me, because it changes too much. That's not to say it'll be bad, necessarily. But it looks a little too different to me to really give it credit as a true FF film. And I'm not even a huge, hardcore FF fan, mind you. I just look at it and say "You can call it Fantastic Four, but that doesn't make it so."
 
To be fair, Lazenby's film is actually one of the best in the series (in my opinion), and Lazenby might have turned out to be a great Bond...but we'll never know. His "not Connery" status was too much for audiences, and that was that. But OHMSS is truly one of my favorite Bond films and one that's very true to the literary version (which is mostly my preferred version, with some of the "rough spots" smoothed out for the sake of modernity).

Of course I'd call out the best one! :lol

I'm not a big enough James Bond fan to have an opinion of each and haven't seen that particular movie since a VHS marathon in elementary school; I just know that he's sort of the forgotten Bond.
 
Of course I'd call out the best one! :lol

I'm not a big enough James Bond fan to have an opinion of each and haven't seen that particular movie since a VHS marathon in elementary school; I just know that he's sort of the forgotten Bond.

Oh, well, that part's certainly true. Or the much maligned Bond, at least.



Anyway, kinda random, but I just had a thought for how to blend the two franchises together.

You shoot Feig's film as planned. Make it exactly what he says. Then you open the Channing Tatum version with Peter, Ray, and Winston in a theater, watching Feig's film, and Ray says "I don't understand why they had to make us girls, though," with Peter replying "Get with the times, Ray. They're way more marketable than us. Besides, who cares, as long as it's entertaining and our checks are in the mail." And Winston chimes in with something like "I hope they give my character more screen time in the sequel" or somesuch. Then you proceed to basically do the "Tatum's crew opens a GB franchise..." approach.

Basically, it's the "Macross Approach." The two film franchises coexist, and it's made clear that the the Feig films are the in-universe film version of the GBs' story, while also allowing the in-universe continuity to continue.


This also could help to eliminate competition between the "two" brands, and might even work to bring in the hard core old school fans to the new stuff, while still maintaining the continuity of the old stuff.
 
Getting a new actor to play Peter Parker ain't the same thing as saying Melissa McCarthy came up with the Ghostbusters. Everything you're arguing is pointless.

That's pretty rich coming from the guy who is throwing a hissy fit over a pre-production process that you: 1) had no input on; 2) have no control over; 3) is already done and over with.

I'd likewise say that continuing to assert that the film is "not Ghostbusters" is pretty pointless, considering that as it stands, the film will be released as "Ghostbusters" in spite of your RPF rants.

There's no movie to consider, only Sony's process to date. I'll consider the movie on its merits when they make one, and I'll rail against Sony's process while I watch it unfold so hideously. I've never criticized Feig's Ghostbusters movie because there isn't one to review. I even said that the movie may be good, that a reboot may be one valid approach to the property - but I wish they'd gotten there in any deliberate way. Are you so happy with the drivel Hollywood cranks out that you wouldn't appreciate them coming at beloved properties in a more considered fashion?

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that the way in which you're trying to delineate Ghostbusters from other franchises makes no objective sense. I would further suggest that if the process behind this GB film is so shocking to you, that you not do any further research into how movies get made. Your poor heart may get broken.
 
Acknowledging that Sony has announced that this movie is pointedly separate from the others is not my trying to "delineate it" from the original films. You're still playing semantics instead of having an honest discussion about the topic. Again, troll.
 
Acknowledging that Sony has announced that this movie is pointedly separate from the others is not my trying to "delineate it" from the original films. You're still playing semantics instead of having an honest discussion about the topic. Again, troll.

lol, what?

And you accuse me of trying to argue for the sake of arguing?

Let's take a step back for a second, because you're lost.

Jeyl made the comparison to JJTrek, which I thought was a valid point. You said that the situations (grabbing a "name" director and adding "in the moment" actors) were not at all similar.

Your reasoning - that they tied in the old universe, therefore the situations are different, doesn't really hold much water.

Tying in the old universe is not an objective criteria by which one can judge the success or failure of a reboot.

That's what I mean when I say you're trying to delineate Ghostbusters...I did not say, as you seem to have misinterpreted, that you were trying to delineate the new film from the old ones.

And again, why you feel the need to keep pointlessly asserting that reboots are not the same as the originals is beyond me. I think everyone here understands that, I think the general public understands that, and more to the point, not one person has asserted differently.

Furthermore, I did not make an argument related to semantics in my last post. You must be mistaken.
 
Ahh yes, cognitive dissonance at its finest.

Who is it that's not trying to have an honest discussion? The guy who sticks his fingers in his ears.
 
But that's the direction studios like Sony have been headed. They lack any real creative vision and rely entirely on brands. And when they get their hands on brands that you actually like, they are as likely to totally botch them as they are to create a real hit. Why? Because they have zero interest in storytelling.

Which is why in this case they're the writing the writing duties to the film makers, not themselves. If this new Ghostbusters movie brought in talent like Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman or even Damon Lindelof (Either as writer or re-writer) as writers, than yes. The studio clearly has no desire in telling a good story. But that's not how Paul Feig rolls with his films. He's very hands on when it comes to his projects and clearly gives a dang about his movies being good.

Storytelling matters

If only that was a real issue that folks have with this film. We don't know what the story is (Except that it might involve people busting ghosts) or who the characters are (they may be funny and charismatic). All I'm seeing is,

"It's not related to the classic Ghostbusters and they want it that way"

I understand and sympathize with this point of view. What I don't sympathize with is the complete lack of trying to understand why Kevin Feig wanted to go in this direction in the first place. He is not a struggling director who can't sell his own ideas. If he wants to make his own movie, he's in a position to do it. He could have made his own 'Ghostbusters' like movie that he and his fellow writers created so they could own the IP, but he didn't. He chose to go with a pre-established brand he didn't create and decided he wanted to do his own unique on it. He is making a Ghostbusters movie that will be different.

Remember, this is what they're selling.

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The problem's not Feig. He had the good sense to turn it down three times. The problem is Sony's saying "well if you don't want to do a Ghostbusters sequel, what DO you want to make?" Pascal was so intent on signing the biggest comedy director going that she didn't care what he thought of the property. That's lazy shepherding at best, even if the results should be decent. Lest you think they're just leaving the writing up to Feig now that they've got their man, the Sony emails also make clear how little they respect the guy and how little rope he'll really have to do what he wants in their branded sandbox.

We released a working synopsis of the new film a while back, and confirmed its authenticity before sharing it with the world. Whether this is the studio or Feig's riffing on the theme, it's pretty awful:

http://indierevolver.com/2015/04/17...plot-and-problems-of-paul-feigs-ghostbusters/
 
Sony's thoughts on Feig at various spots in development:

"...sell it to paul... He hAs no control over what we do... This is an expansion of the universe
And his aspect is one part."

"I circled back with Joe Russo about this Chinese investor he set me up with. On the call, he brought up GB and the Chan/Reid/Pratt universe approach.

He told me they are meeting on Friday for three hours to break story, and then will be ready to meet with us. Initially, he said that they're not interested in a bake off against the Feig version. I delicately explained that we are very far down the road with Feig and it would be quite uncomfortable for us to try to slow things down to let them get ahead. But I also said that in our mind these two versions can co-exist and the Feig version would live underneath the umbrella of this amazing expanded universe that they want to create."

"It's not Paul's decision whether or not we choose to pursue expanded universe.It's simply the timeline on which we want to roll it out and actually have it known that we've engaged another writer."

And this gem about Reitman is pretty telling: "Anyway, I told him we really need to do a brand study to learn what people expect or care about from a movie and what they don't."

That's just not encouraging to me. Between that and the story outline, what's there to be excited about?
 
The problem's not Feig. He had the good sense to turn it down three times. The problem is Sony's saying "well if you don't want to do a Ghostbusters sequel, what DO you want to make?" Pascal was so intent on signing the biggest comedy director going that she didn't care what he thought of the property. That's lazy shepherding at best, even if the results should be decent. Lest you think they're just leaving the writing up to Feig now that they've got their man, the Sony emails also make clear how little they respect the guy and how little rope he'll really have to do what he wants in their branded sandbox.

We released a working synopsis of the new film a while back, and confirmed its authenticity before sharing it with the world. Whether this is the studio or Feig's riffing on the theme, it's pretty awful:

http://indierevolver.com/2015/04/17...plot-and-problems-of-paul-feigs-ghostbusters/

Exactly.

The story may work out fine. I still won't consider it "really" Ghostbusters the way I don't consider JJ's Trek to be "really" Star Trek. It's got the veneer, characters with the same names, but it's its own thing. It's entertaining in its own way, it's just...not really what I consider Star Trek. Assuming things go the way they were described in the article (and that may all change), it sounds like nobody really wants this to be remotely related to the old Ghostbusters stuff except for the thinnest veneer of IP stuff like proton packs, setting, and maybe character names.

The hasty follow-up by Sony of announcing a "guys" version of Ghostbusters just makes me think that the people in charge of this franchise have no ****ing clue what they're doing, and really don't care as long as they can kick some branded properties out the door. None of this makes me think there's any reason to have faith in the project turning out well. They really seem to believe that brand = money. Slap it on a project, and wait for the cash to roll in.

As I've said, a stopped watch is right twice a day, and maybe the same principle will apply to this film...but it's still a stopped watch. I think that, given the process we're seeing unfold here, it's entirely fair to say "Wow...this sounds like it's gonna be a trainwreck." At best, it'll be like what the Fantastic Four movie appears to be: an entertaining otherwise generic blockbuster with a FF paint job hastily applied.
 
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