Game of Thrones

Great episode, didn't like Roose going out like that..but I guess it was inevitable. Is it bad that I didn't really feel bad for Walda and the baby?

I wasn't surprised to see Roose go out the way he did, I saw that coming almost as soon as the scene started. It's really his fault too, he created Ramsay and made him the monster that he was but yet he trusted him even while threatening his position. He should have worn a mail shirt under his tunic/doublet at all times in anticipation of Ramsay trying to, literally, back stab him, or, in this case, stab him in the gut. He should have known that Ramsay is extremely unstable and since making him legitimate he's gotten bolder and bolder and more and more ambitious.
 
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I wasn't surprised to see Roose go out the way he did, I saw that coming almost as soon as the scene started. It's really his fault too, he created Ramsay and made him the monster that he was but yet he trusted him even while threatening his position. He should have worn a mail shirt under his tunic/doublet at all times in anticipation of Ramsay trying to, literally, back stab him, or, in this case, stab him in the gut. He should have known that Ramsay is extremely unstable and since making him legitimate he's gotten bolder and bolder and more and more ambitious.

Technically, a mail shirt wouldn't have helped him. Mail is great against slashing weapons, but chain is vulnerable to piercing weapons, which is why archers were such a threat prior to plate.
 
It's been established, at least in the books, than when you get resurrected you come back as is, you're just brought back to life but not healed in the process. In the books Dondaron (?) mentioned all the times that he's been brought back and shows and talks about everything that's killed him, including a caved in skull. So Jon Snow will be walking around with those nifty stab wounds in his chest for the rest of his life.

If you remember Beric Dondarrion, his wounds never healed after being brought back either. In the show, he was still human even though he'd been brought back several times even though in the books it was a bit different. I'm willing to bet Jon is going to be pretty much as he was before the assassination since he wasn't dead for that long. Seems like just a few hours in show time.

I remember Beric and his multiple deaths, it just brings up weird consequences. Like, if he's alive then shouldn't his body start to repair the damage, with or without magic? Otherwise wouldn't the wounds just kill him again? At the very least he ought to have some stitching up done I reckon.
 
Technically, a mail shirt wouldn't have helped him. Mail is great against slashing weapons, but chain is vulnerable to piercing weapons, which is why archers were such a threat prior to plate.

It might have, it still would have taken a good amount of force to punch through a mail shirt and unless Ramsay was expecting Roose to wear a mail shirt and had a dagger that was particularly pointy it probably would have been enough. That's not to say that Roose wouldn't have felt it or that Ramsay couldn't eventually punch through it, it's just that without anticipating having to go through a mail shirt chances are that Ramsay wouldn't have used enough force to punch through the mail. This would have, in theory, bought Roose enough time to do something, assuming that he had a dagger himself or loyal guards within ear shot.
 
I havent read the books or anything... (so if any posting after this is a spoiler.. its not on purpose)..

Sooooooo...glad Jon Snow is back!..

With how important they have made his character.. I was 'sure' they were going to bring him back.

(here is where possible spoiler alerts -may- happen.. I dont know for sure.. I'm just guessing/talking out loud here)


I think Jon Snow is also (as with Tyrion) a Tygarian (sp?)..

From season 1 Ned Stark talks about his 'secret' hes kept for his sister? (who was with King Rob until the rebellion?)

Anyone have any thoughts on that?
 
I wasn't surprised to see Roose go out the way he did, I saw that coming almost as soon as the scene started. It's really his fault too, he created Ramsay and made him the monster that he was but yet he trusted him even while threatening his position. He should have worn a mail shirt under his tunic/doublet at all times in anticipation of Ramsay trying to, literally, back stab him, or, in this case, stab him in the gut. He should have known that Ramsay is extremely unstable and since making him legitimate he's gotten bolder and bolder and more and more ambitious.

True. I guess I just wanted Jon to kill him after retaking Winterfell for everything he's done, Robb's betrayal, etc. His demise was well deserved though and as you pointed out, his own fault.

I'm in the boat that I DON'T want Tyrion to be a "secret Targaryen". I really liked the dynamic between him and Tywin with Tyrion being the best and worst parts of Tywin, the closest to himself, yet because of his deformity he would not accept him and didn't want him for his successor to rule Casterly Rock or even attempt to carry on the Lannister line. I feel it would take away from that if he had suspected or knew that Tyrion was not his son.
 
I havent read the books or anything... (so if any posting after this is a spoiler.. its not on purpose)..

Sooooooo...glad Jon Snow is back!..

With how important they have made his character.. I was 'sure' they were going to bring him back.

(here is where possible spoiler alerts -may- happen.. I dont know for sure.. I'm just guessing/talking out loud here)


I think Jon Snow is also (as with Tyrion) a Tygarian (sp?)..

From season 1 Ned Stark talks about his 'secret' hes kept for his sister? (who was with King Rob until the rebellion?)

Anyone have any thoughts on that?
I could elaborate the long-discussed theory about what you said. Or we could all wait until next episode and see for ourselves. Three words: Tower of Joy.

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True. I guess I just wanted Jon to kill him after retaking Winterfell for everything he's done, Robb's betrayal, etc. His demise was well deserved though and as you pointed out, his own fault.

Narratively speaking, I find it to be far more satisfying that the betrayer is himself betrayed, and by his own flesh and blood no less. Like, it's one thing to violate the guest right. It's another entirely to be a kinslayer.

I'm in the boat that I DON'T want Tyrion to be a "secret Targaryen". I really liked the dynamic between him and Tywin with Tyrion being the best and worst parts of Tywin, the closest to himself, yet because of his deformity he would not accept him and didn't want him for his successor to rule Casterly Rock or even attempt to carry on the Lannister line. I feel it would take away from that if he had suspected or knew that Tyrion was not his son.

I think it's not really necessary for him to be a "secret Targaryen," but it wouldn't bother me if he was. I like the idea in some sense, but I also don't think he needs to be to explain Tywin's loathing of him. That said, there is stuff in the background lore to justify it. It's not purely because people just love Tyrion, Dany, and Jon and want them to be the "three heads of the Dragon." If there was nothing to back the story up, I'd be very dismissive of it, but I could see it possibly working out like that.

I could elaborate the long-discussed theory about what you said. Or we could all wait until next episode and see for ourselves. Three words: Tower of Joy.

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Jon Snow is dead. His watch is ended.

Jon Snow is dead. His watch is ended.

Where did Bran find a hair stylist so far north of The Wall?

I mean, there's no reason why Myra couldn't cut his hair. I think it's far more interesting to wonder how the Three Eyed Raven managed to physically warp himself into another person entirely and get a haircut in the process. Also, while I know Max von Sydow wouldn't stand for it, I was really kinda hoping he'd be missing an eye. You know, like he's supposed to be because Bittersteel cut it out.



Other observations/theories.

1. Arya really seems to be committed to becoming no one. I wonder if this will extinguish the rage and desire for revenge in her heart. If that's the case, then we won't see Arya personally crossing names off her list anymore, I suspect. I could actually see her adopting a more "zen" view of it, to where, as she truly becomes a Faceless Man (gender neutral title), she accepts that all men must die, and therefore it is a girl's place to act as the tool of the Many Faced God, and not to as the Many Faced God herself.

2. It's really nice to see Brienne finally freaking useful. I was getting tired of her being such a knucklehead. That scene last season missing the light in the tower...man...SO angry with her.

3. Speaking of Sansa's companions, when he told her he was going "home," I think that it really was Reek saying that, not Theon. Meaning that he'll go back to Ramsay and be tortured for failing him (not killed). However, there's a part of me that thinks that, much like his father, Ramsay's sins will catch up with him, and he will ultimately be killed by the creature he thought fully under control (who will, himself, be killed in the process). I'm guessing final words along the lines of "My name is Theon Greyjoy."

4. Moot! Moot! I'm actually kinda looking forward to the kingsmoot in the Iron Islands. I'm curious to see how they'll play out what happens there, considering the sequence of events and how it differs from the books. Also nice to see the show take a stand on what really happened to Balon Greyjoy. "He had a very unfortunate accident."

5. WHEN THE HELL IS GRRM PUBLISHING HIS NEXT BOOK?!?!?! I'm loving that the show has moved past the books. I'm also delighted that the show has become something truly different from the books in terms of its story. Many of the decisions are, I think, the right ones for the TV show, because too much of what happens in Books 4 and 5 are internal monologue and require waaaaaay too much treading water. I expect that the treading water will ultimately pay off pretty well, but it's nice to see the show take a more direct approach. That said, I still look forward to seeing the development of the story in Martin's books, and I wish he'd get the next one out already! Plus, I don't look forward to waiting another five freakin' years for him to wrap up the whole story.

--EDIT--

6. One other point. As a new father with a 7 week old baby at home, the scene with Walda and the hounds....was deeply, deeply disturbing. Ramsay needs to die very, very badly. And I don't just mean that he really needs to die. I mean that when he goes, it needs to be bad. He is truly evil.
 
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5. WHEN THE HELL IS GRRM PUBLISHING HIS NEXT BOOK?!?!?! I'm loving that the show has moved past the books. I'm also delighted that the show has become something truly different from the books in terms of its story. Many of the decisions are, I think, the right ones for the TV show, because too much of what happens in Books 4 and 5 are internal monologue and require waaaaaay too much treading water. I expect that the treading water will ultimately pay off pretty well, but it's nice to see the show take a more direct approach. That said, I still look forward to seeing the development of the story in Martin's books, and I wish he'd get the next one out already! Plus, I don't look forward to waiting another five freakin' years for him to wrap up the whole story.

Good question, and one that I'm sure many book fans are wondering. I just hope that he seriously picks up the pace in book 6, he's really been treading water and not really advancing the overall plot since book 4. At the rate the plot's been moving the past couple of books it's going to take at least 3 more books to wrap the series up and at the rate he writes these things he'll either end up dieing before finishing the last book or I'll be an old man with grandkids.

--EDIT--

6. One other point. As a new father with a 7 week old baby at home, the scene with Walda and the hounds....was deeply, deeply disturbing. Ramsay needs to die very, very badly. And I don't just mean that he really needs to die. I mean that when he goes, it needs to be bad. He is truly evil.

Yeah, Ramsay is a real *******, both literally and figuratively. Like Joffrey before him, GRRM & the show's writes, and esp. the actors, do a brilliant job at creating a character that you can really hate. The only problem with that is that I feel a bit sorry for the actors, they do such a good job that I'm sure that they're going to run into people who can't separate them from their characters and are going to hate them for basically doing such a good job.
 
Loved the episode, BUT, come on Game of Thrones, I expect more from you... I expect you to defy typical TV tropes.

The two biggest moments in the show played out exactly like any other show would have done it.

The last minute arrival of the wildlings to save the guys at the Wall. Right down to the moment swords are drawn, then we get the gates being bashed in by the giant. There are ways to build tension around a scene without pulling that move.

And of course John's Resurrection would appear to fail... but then happen when everyone left the room. I would have preferred anything... something different than that.

Have John laying there as she finishes her words... Someone could ask, "How long should we wait? Did it fai-" Then have John's eyes shoot open and he flat out goes berserk and they have to hold him down... like he's waking up from being stabbed multiple times, and it's like no time has passed....

At least I wouldn't have been expecting it.

Or it fails, John's still dead... they say it's time to go, and start leading the red witch out, then she dramatically turns and keeps doing CPR on John...

"goddamit you *******! You never backed away from anything in your life! Now fight!"

*slaps John Snow*

"Fight!"

*slaps John Snow again*

"Fight! Right now! Do it! Fight *********! Fight! Fight! Fiiiiiight!"

-------

*you lose your nerd card if you don't know what I'm referencing*
 
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I noticed besides the one use of the F word this episode was fairly tame.
I guess they are toning down this show


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It's not really the use of foul language. it's that the way it is written, is seems so out of place the way it was written in each place.

It wound up sounding like a bad line from any mediocre action movie or something than having an real sentiment
 
I noticed besides the one use of the F word this episode was fairly tame.
I guess they are toning down this show


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I don't think any show wherein a woman and her newborn baby are implied to having been devoured by hounds qualifies as "tame."
 
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