From Hoth to Dagobah and Bespin, and the Sithcret of the Ranch Saber

[Sym-Cha]

The blades were German Surplus Tank antennae......straight from Steve Sansweet.

Rich

That maybe so ... but I'm quite certain Steve Sansweet is not straight

As for the Kobold + G R A F L E X top parts ... can anyone confirm that the grips run all the way up over the black stripe? If not those T-tracks are much shorter than on any G R A F L E X based saber.

Here's a picture of that non-G R A F L E X related stuntsaber from ANH being used for practise on the ESB set :



It does have a clamp, red button and glass eye as can be seen here :



... notice it has no bunnyears nor the slots for them to go into :



It's even possible they used the clamp from OB1 stunt (on the right) since that clamp is missing and it also seems to lack the square tab underneath the clamplever as did OB1's hero.

Here's a screenshot of the Hero on Luke's belt in the Bespin hallway :



Notice how the clamplever has no screw whereas the Rancho saber does :



The clamplever is not even attached with it's normal pin to the clamp ... the pin is missing hence the screw :



Also the golden fingers on the activation strip is turned 180º away from the lever :



The Rancho saber missing the red button :



As for the Kobold clip it too was put back downside up opposed to the Hero version and two extra regular screws were added :



The D itself could have been the same as used for ANH ... opened slightly perhaps even a tiny piece cut off to remain invisible between the Kobold ridges although your guess is as good as mine.

As for the remaining issue screws vs. rivets on the Hero saber : Where oh where is the absolute picture proof so we can lay this to rest once and for all?

To be continued . . .

Chaim

 

[Luke the Belter]

Here's a screenshot of the Hero on Luke's belt in the Bespin hallway :

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz258/Sym-Cha/swempire_4816A_zps3664546f.jpg
Chaim

Thank you,
never noticed that the kobold clip where installed the same way as on the Hoth saber. (Now it's clear to me...the Hero :wacko)

 

[thd9791]

That maybe so ... but I'm quite certain Steve Sansweet is not straight

As for the Kobold + G R A F L E X top parts ... can anyone confirm that the grips run all the way up over the black stripe? If not those T-tracks are much shorter than on any G R A F L E X based saber.

Here's a picture of that non-G R A F L E X related stuntsaber from ANH being used for practise on the ESB set :




... notice it has no bunnyears nor the slots for them to go into :

In that first saber you can see the set screw near the emitter. It's also clearer in that B&W I posted farther up.



The second photo got me thinking. Especially considering the V2 pommel looks to be very different in the Emperor Chair shot, and we know it was removable for electronics in ANH, it would make sense that it was easy to remove the clamp. it would only have to slide off the pommel-less end. Bending one sideways off a 1.5" diameter tube is a little nerve wracking. I bent a Roman clamp doing that with my V2. Also, those are VERY smooth cuts around that activation button in the T track.

The clamplever is not even attached with it's normal pin to the clamp ... the pin is missing hence the screw :

I NEVER NOTICED THIS. THE POOR GRAFLEX, im assuming that brass screw goes all the way through? How is the clamp pinched shut if not?

The Rancho saber missing the red button :

This reiterates what I meant earlier. This flash unit still has the brass plug and a complete bulb socket. No evidence of alteration for a stunt blade.

*go me, I learned how to break up my quotes! *high five myself*

 

[Aison]

grabbing for straws here, but I noticed on the hero shot from the hallway, just along the bottom of the mylar tape it looks like there is a patch of gunk, or corrosion? Anyone see what I am talking about, but the ranch has had the tape replaced with a wider piece of textured tape that would cover that up maybe? Is the Ranch the Hero?

 

[Sym-Cha]

What you see is the actual side slot with an extra tiny screw to secure the top, which is normally always there ... it's probably the studio set lights and certain reflections/shadows that plays parts in how you perceive that picture. Here's a picture where you see the slot minus the tiny screw :



Still is the Ranch the Hero after heavy modifications? Perhaps. Let's take it even further ... is the ESB Hero even slightly related to the ANH? That could be ... if we were able to compare i.e. the text on the bottoms only via set or prop pictures of the time of production ... we would be able to deduce what kind of G R A F L E X version was used. According to parfaitelumiere who send me this next picture the ESB wampa cave scene Hero has clearly the word 'NEW' written on the bottom :



as in 'New York' and here's a picture of the 'Made by the Folmer Graflex Corp. version :



This particular version (see first picture in this post) usually comes with the wrong red button hence not many SW collectors grab it when available.

If we could be certain this was also written on Luke's ANH Hero we could conclude that the ANH was indeed re-used in ESB ... though most likely it went back to Bapty's Prop Shop after production ended back in 1976 as did many rented STAR WARS props.

Chaim

 

[Halliwax]

i love threads like this, all this information excites me!

 

[scottjua]

What you see is the actual side slot with an extra tiny screw to secure the top, which is normally always there ... it's probably the studio set lights and certain reflections/shadows that plays parts in how you perceive that picture. Here's a picture where you see the slot minus the tiny screw :

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz258/Sym-Cha/LukeESB-01_zps8ecaac3a.jpg

Still is the Ranch the Hero after heavy modifications? Perhaps. Let's take it even further ... is the ESB Hero even slightly related to the ANH? That could be ... if we were able to compare i.e. the text on the bottoms only via set or prop pictures of the time of production ... we would be able to deduce what kind of G R A F L E X version was used. According to parfaitelumiere who send me this next picture the ESB wampa cave scene Hero has clearly the word 'NEW' written on the bottom :

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz258/Sym-Cha/lukewampa_zps9a78f0eb.jpg

as in 'New York' and here's a picture of the 'Made by the Folmer Graflex Corp. version :

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz258/Sym-Cha/LukeESB-02_zpsed6950a8.jpg

This particular version (see first picture in this post) usually comes with the wrong red button hence not many SW collectors grab it when available.

If we could be certain this was also written on Luke's ANH Hero we could conclude that the ANH was indeed re-used in ESB ... though most likely it went back to Bapty's Prop Shop after production ended back in 1976 as did many rented STAR WARS props.

Chaim

exactly what's I've been saying all along. Definitely a FOLMER version, which at least all the one's I had had (had over 20 over the past couple of years) have had a variation of the narrow band knurling.

Read more here:

Graflex Variations: Facts and vs. Replica


Also look at your pic here:

Looks like narrow band knurling here too on the top button. So does that mean the screen used WAS in fact a combo of different buttons on different sabers???

 

[thd9791]

Could have been! I always thought the button on the tube/motorized stunt was a thin-knurled band.

can someone clarify something for me? I always thought Lucas and his crew bought military surplus and junk for the lightsabers among other things, and not rented them from Bapty, why would bapty "get them back"? Did the money come from the prop rental company? Missing something here...

and bs I don't doubt the "ROTJ" Vader was sourced from an esb or anh Graflex that was missing a clamp. Maybe it went towards the Obi Wan.

 

[Edraven99]

Looks like narrow band knurling here too on the top button. So does that mean the screen used WAS in fact a combo of different buttons on different sabers???

Nice! Verrry interesting.... I was going to start asking some questions in my build thread, but now it looks like this thread may answer some of these....

I knew about the Folmer Graflex (though unfortunately it looks like my Kobold clip will cover up both the "Folmer" and the "New York" inscription ) but this is the first time I've heard about the possibility of the narrow band knurling button possibly being used... I wasn't going to use mine but I might have to swap mine out now!

And how's this for minutia... if we now think it was a complete Folmer Graflex that was used, does that mean that the pins on the Luke ESB were straight, which was indicative of those early Graflex's?

I know that for my Master Replicas ANH lightsaber, they used the TSR pins...

 

[scottjua]

IF the upper was indeed a match for the lower. Lol... there's no way we're gonna know until one of us gets that elusive access to the archives' photo banks.

 

[Sym-Cha]

Okay ... the waters are stirring again but before we muddy them let's distinguish between the Hero ESB saber and the stunt saber before we all start altering our red buttons and scavage ebay for a Folmer New York G R A F L E X, with thin knurling on the button, shall we?

Chaim

 

[scottjua]

Lol... yes.

 

[Edraven99]

Okay ... the waters are stirring again but before we muddy them let's distinguish between the Hero ESB saber and the stunt saber before we all start altering our red buttons and scavage ebay for a Folmer New York G R A F L E X, with thin knurling on the button, shall we?

Chaim

Sure... throw reason into this witch hunt... :darnkids

 

[Aison]

Thanks, that explains it. Just a last thought, the Hero does not show top screws in the T track, the ranch does, if the prop guy was told that in the next scene the saber was going to be knocked from Luke's hand and onto the floor, he probably would of thought, 'Ahh, the T track's going to come off' That might explain additional screws. Why the Kobold got turned around and the other mods like the clamp lever and tape, not sure, losing a button is easy to accept due to all the activity on set.

 

[Sym-Cha]

Try find this book for sale online ... it's a nice read and follows the making of ESB written in diary style by Alan Arnold :



Chaim

 

[teecrooz]

Okay ... the waters are stirring again but before we muddy them let's distinguish between the Hero ESB saber and the stunt saber before we all start altering our red buttons and scavage ebay for a Folmer New York G R A F L E X, with thin knurling on the button, shall we?

Chaim

Found one!

 

[Aison]

I have again pondered the Ranch saber, this is my last theory on this, it is simple, screw in the lever, screw on the T track with extra screws, screw on the Kobold D ring assembly, hold on and lets throw the saber mutiple times upon multiple takes hoping it all holds together. Perhaps the prop guy made sure everything was screwed down so it would not break apart and cause him more time to repair it when they shot the scene where Luke's lightsaber gets knocked from his hand. Regardles of takes, it is a good idea to secure the props parts. So maybe it is the Hero modified to take a beating and was left that way?

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

While I know that a lot of people like the ranch saber, I find it too heavy. Therefore I prefer a simple vinegar and oil saber.

 

[OldKen]

I heard that the ep7 Skelligs island saber is like thousand island... But SPICY!!!

Seriously though this thread is fascinating.

I have 1 complete, and 1 top, original parts GRAFLEX... es... LOL.

The bottom of the complete one says MADE BY THE FOLMER GRAFLEX CORP

And upside down in the other direction: ROCHESTER.NY.U.S.A.PAT.NO.2310165

This one had the correct button and straight brass pins...

The other top came with the "holiday special" small band button. And has the pins with notches.

Of course I can't say this is 100% how they were originally purchased...

But the top and bottom were definately used together.

And the extra top and its button were seemingly used together as well.

The natural patina on each is very appearant. And different.

While I know that a lot of people like the ranch saber, I find it too heavy. Therefore I prefer a simple vinegar and oil saber.

 

[thd9791]

Honestly...if the ROTJ Vader saber still has rivets in the D ring, I would think any surviving ESB Hero Graflex would still have the rivets in after all these years. If removing rivets isn't that big of a deal then maybe I'm wrong.

I still feel like the Dagobah saber turned into the SRS somehow. The props in the archives seem to be in nearly the same shape/set up as filming, and the SRS missing the top button speaks volumes to me. That being said, someone "fixed it" recently, I'm talking about the archive photos before this.