From Hoth to Dagobah and Bespin, and the Sithcret of the Ranch Saber

[TheRealMcFly]

Wow could that be the flat top resin cast that is launched out of R2? Great video. Also featured, the find of the original Graflex-like tube stunt? The shape of the socket and blade attachment seem to match that Star Wars era promo photo of Mark and Carrie.

Great thread. I have always felt that the Ranch saber was the ESB Hero from top to bottom. We can't make out the tiny t track screws close to the clamp but we don't have any reference sharp enough to prove they are not there. It was my understanding the original track material had predrilled holes in the same location. The best evidence that the Ranch configuration is still assembled with the ESB Hero bottom is the orientation of the Graflex stamp on the endcap. While I cannot account for the flip of the Kobold fastener, the "GRAFLEX" part of stamp that is visible still aligns with the cave screen capture. Furthermore, the Kobold fastener remains almost in alignment to the clamp as it sits today, also in the same way as the screen capture.

Forgive me if I have missed recent revelations of new reference but how can it be known that the bottom of the ESB hero has a spelled out New York in the film? Unless I am looking at it wrong it seems that text would be entirely obscured by the Kobold fastener. It looks like the Graflex "G" catching the light just inside the D ring from the Wampa cave view giving away the orientation of the surrounding text. I only have two 3 cell bottoms but there doesn't seem to be any relationship to how that text on the cap aligns to the L notches that secure it to the clamp. Yes, you get a little wiggle room but it seems very unlikely to me that the assembled relic that is left would have found another bottom that matches the cave scene so perfectly.

 

[adiemilio]

We can't make out the tiny t track screws close to the clamp but we don't have any reference sharp enough to prove they are not there.

You can see the little flat screw on my top picture in post #54.

 

[TheRealMcFly]

I just meant in the movie and in production photos.

 

[l33tLX]

Wow could that be the flat top resin cast that is launched out of R2? Great video. Also featured, the find of the original Graflex-like tube stunt? The shape of the socket and blade attachment seem to match that Star Wars era promo photo of Mark and Carrie.

Great thread. I have always felt that the Ranch saber was the ESB Hero from top to bottom. We can't make out the tiny t track screws close to the clamp but we don't have any reference sharp enough to prove they are not there. It was my understanding the original track material had predrilled holes in the same location. The best evidence that the Ranch configuration is still assembled with the ESB Hero bottom is the orientation of the Graflex stamp on the endcap. While I cannot account for the flip of the Kobold fastener, the "GRAFLEX" part of stamp that is visible still aligns with the cave screen capture. Furthermore, the Kobold fastener remains almost in alignment to the clamp as it sits today, also in the same way as the screen capture.

Forgive me if I have missed recent revelations of new reference but how can it be known that the bottom of the ESB hero has a spelled out New York in the film? Unless I am looking at it wrong it seems that text would be entirely obscured by the Kobold fastener. It looks like the Graflex "G" catching the light just inside the D ring from the Wampa cave view giving away the orientation of the surrounding text. I only have two 3 cell bottoms but there doesn't seem to be any relationship to how that text on the cap aligns to the L notches that secure it to the clamp. Yes, you get a little wiggle room but it seems very unlikely to me that the assembled relic that is left would have found another bottom that matches the cave scene so perfectly.

The bottom on the saber at the ranch is for sure different than on screen. It's the New York stamping you speak of that shows the difference,



and the New York bottoms are unique in that the Made by Folmer Graflex words around the rim have more space between them. This means that the small trademark line of text across the middle of the bottom points to the M in Made as opposed to the R in Rochester as it does on all bottoms with patent numbers, meaning doesn't have the New York stamping

examples of the 2 different bottoms in question



and the ranch saber showing the T in Trademark next to the R in Rochester

 

[TheRealMcFly]

I get it, although I could see "NEW" in the screen capture if I squint hard enough, I'm still of the opinion that its not enough to say for certain. I'm a little disappointed, I thought maybe we had been treated to some new reference.

Here is how I perceived the orientation. And yes the comparison capture is an up scaled photograph right off a screen but I think it's a helpful example of how it is easy to see the ring of text differently. To my eye sometimes it looks as though we are getting a look at "ORP."


Regardless of the cap-stamp it would seem the Kobold part on the Ranch saber aligns in the same way as the screen capture. On the bottom it's not exactly centered, but almost touching the lip heading towards the 'control box' side. That grip's fastener is also not quite on the same axis with the Kobold piece in the movie, and it is the same way on the Ranch reference. It mounts a little bit lower and doesn't exactly align with the clamp.

For the sake of discussion, is there anyway to get a better capture? Maybe the new digital release has a few more pixels to offer.

 

[Edraven99]

View attachment 517735

I don't know... I think it's pretty evident from this high res shot that Scott made that it is the word "New" on the stamp.

There are also other incongruities like the reversed clip and the different textured Mylar tape that would seem to indicate that the Hero and the Ranch are two different sabers...

 

[TheRealMcFly]

Textured Mylar or old hot-sandwich paper? No one can account for its current condition/configuration but it is never seen like that during production or in the final film. This doesn't mean it's not made from what we saw on screen.

If the top and clamp are all-original one blurry screenshot isn't enough for me to rule out the bottom. All fasteners land in the same locations and the finish is less polished, just like we see the Hero in all the reference. I'm not against the idea of the "NEW" bottom, I would welcome a confirmation, I just need a better look. The cave view finds our favorite prop covered in snow/water droplets. A little blob here and a scrape there and "101" could start to look like a "W."

Other revelations:
brass stump still present from the beer tab?

 

[Halliwax]

View attachment 517735

I don't know... I think it's pretty evident from this high res shot that Scott made that it is the word "New" on the stamp.

There are also other incongruities like the reversed clip and the different textured Mylar tape that would seem to indicate that the Hero and the Ranch are two different sabers...

i defiantly see "NEW" some one ever outlined it in red in one thread. i am hoping roman's graflexs will have this logo on the bottom

 

[3 CELL PO]

Hello. I wanted to share this idea for perhaps seeing clearer. On the Empire blu ray -attempt capture from the menu screen, when the cave scene shows. It appears higher quality to me but my screen is not big screen. I saw the "EW space then next character" type in my look for assembly in film. Peace movie lightsaber connaisseurs.

 

[Sym-Cha]

Thanks 3 CELL PO for sharing and welcome aboard ... can someone try what was suggested from the Empire Blu-Ray? Or do we already have said picture framed?

Chaim

 

[Halliwax]

Thanks 3 CELL PO for sharing and welcome aboard ... can someone try what was suggested from the Empire Blu-Ray? Or do we already have said picture framed?

Chaim

i won't have bluray player access until this weekend, I'm going to check it out for sure then, i don't think i can rip that info off the dvd... i can take a ghetto cell phone picture of it though

 

[3 CELL PO]

I illustrate my take on it, all be it basic , with use of the Folmer owner's photo share (in kind). Camera angles -YELLOW(pre Luke rolling eyes), RED(pre force pull). An awesome movie moment!

 

[3 CELL PO]

...such that in a clear view 'ER NEW YORK...' could be read outside of the ESB addition.

 

[mugatu]

Textured Mylar or old hot-sandwich paper? No one can account for its current condition/configuration but it is never seen like that during production or in the final film. This doesn't mean it's not made from what we saw on screen.

If the top and clamp are all-original one blurry screenshot isn't enough for me to rule out the bottom. All fasteners land in the same locations and the finish is less polished, just like we see the Hero in all the reference. I'm not against the idea of the "NEW" bottom, I would welcome a confirmation, I just need a better look. The cave view finds our favorite prop covered in snow/water droplets. A little blob here and a scrape there and "101" could start to look like a "W."

Other revelations:
brass stump still present from the beer tab?

I try to be a fair guy when trying to judge these things for myself. If something is inconclusive, I'll willingly and dutifully say so. Is this screen cap from the Wampa Cave scene crystal clear, razor sharp? No. But it is pretty darn clear. To me. Plus, in conjunction with the alternatives, what else that is stamped on any original variation of Graflex could those markings represent besides the NEW? I'll agree it is subjective in the end, ultimately.

On my Luke ESB, I removed the machined pin that holds the beer tab on. Years of a swinging beer tab have worn a small circle into the finish where the beer tab pin goes. It'd be tough to remove just the tab and leave the pin. Not saying plenty here couldn't do it. I just doubt my own skills on that.

- - - Updated - - -

I illustrate my take on it, all be it basic , with use of the Folmer owner's photo share (in kind). Camera angles -YELLOW(pre Luke rolling eyes), RED(pre force pull). An awesome movie moment!View attachment 522841

This reference is going to be helpful. Thanks.

 

[TheRealMcFly]

Red Button detail

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/raul_winchester/Dibujo_1.png

It looks like the brass plug is still there in this image posted earlier from the video. I've only removed three in my time and they each came off clean. The two I still have remain snug after knocking around all these years now. An interesting possibility.

Like I said, I get it. It does look like it could be NEW YORK but it would still be nice to see it more clearly. Sometimes to my eye it looks more like an EW when we are looking at it, up-side down. Flip it over and the W is more of a blob and the E could be the 6 of the patent number. Not much clarity on the N either, you would expect to see more, and it could just be the vertical hash of the 1 from the patent number.

Always a treat to discuss these details as they relate to the pedigree. I would actually prefer the NEW YORK alignment with the Kobold part, it covers more of the text on the bottom cap and makes for a 'cleaner' replica. I just personally couldn't say for certain either way at this time.

Theories are great but I would never say for sure, and it is easy for misinformation to spread. For example, the holes of the ROTJ Vader hilt appear sort of like the Hero ESB bottom, but they actually do not align at all. The geometry of the holes near the D ring as they relate to the smaller screw near the clamp is not consistent. When displayed horizontally clamp-facing the smaller screw is 'below' on the ESB hero and 'above' on the ROTJ Vader. If that is a NEW YORK bottom in the movie it couldn't have gone to Vader.

 

[thd9791]

My favorite part of that scene are the messed up grips on the other side of the saber. :lol

 

[Aison]

I thought this thread died, just caught up, awesome!!!! Thanks 133tLX for your contribution, and to everyone else. I also believe that El Rancho is the ANH and ESB saber that has gone through a series of mods. But no one has commented on my theory that the prop guy was told the saber was going to be tossed around and this was the reason why the kobold was turned around and screwed, the T racks were screwed, hell even the lever was screwed, mmm lots of screwing suggests this thing is going to get tossed around and needs to hold together for a few takes so not to interupt filming with repairs.

Again thanks everyone for your posts and opinions, and pics. Loved the catch up!

 

[Aison]

I recently watched ESB in my home theater, and when Luke was in Dagobah and is told to go into the cave, he pulls out his lightsaber, it seems to have a longer blade in appearance, but I at once recognised it from I33tLX's post about his theory on the bladed stunt version which is the picture that has 188 on it. The T tracks also appear to have been ground down to be flatter, any way I am sure that I recognised that saber at that point in the movie. Will have to grab some screen shots.
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