Larry Young
Master Member
Holy crap that last ep was excellent. That one honestly made it my favorite ongoing show.
Fringe
- Thread starter Larry Young
- Start date
DARTH SABER
Master Member
I agree, Awesome episode.
This is the kind of episode that catapults a show to cult status. Kudos to the writers for taking a chance and making a wacked out episode chock full of weirdness and animation!
The episode felt like a cross between the Matrix and the Wizard of Oz....It even had zombies in it!
My wife and I were on the floor laughing at Broils tripping.
I'm guessing that they did the animation because Leonard Nimoy is "retired". He doesn't act, but he is doing some voiceover work.
Yeah, that was perfection. I knew from the title we were in for a good one.
There was a lot I really liked about this weeks episode. I loved Broils trippin'. I like the whole tripy salute Matrix. I like the animation and the Zombies. And I LOVED that this brings to an end Olivia's bad imitation of Nimoy.
As much as I like the animation, I felt it was a cheat. It all live action, up until Nimoy, then it's animation. Ok, cool so far, I can understand that. Then When Peter leaves him at the bike, It goes live action again, but as soon as a seen calls for him again, it goes cartoon again. He was standing with in view of Peter, when he walked up to the house. They should have either left it animated, Or once the reached Olivia, and the focus shifted to her, it should have gone live action, and staid that way, at that point we should have seen live action Nimoy, and every thing. I know this wasn't a big deal for a lot of folks I know, but I thought it was a kind of plot whole. However I love the ep anyways.
Though I would have loved it if they had managed to get Nimoy in a computer. That would have been cool.
Of course Nimoy has never been the same since McCoy put his brain back in, in the Original series, and in the movies, he died, and was brought back to life. Not to mention all the time traveling. And now he has been put in an alternate dimension, Died again, and was brought back again, this time in a ladies body, and now has been animated. Oh, wait, make that animated again. The poor guy has kind of been put through it, enough, on screen, without being put into a computer...........Um....Again. :lol
As much as I like the animation, I felt it was a cheat. It all live action, up until Nimoy, then it's animation. Ok, cool so far, I can understand that. Then When Peter leaves him at the bike, It goes live action again, but as soon as a seen calls for him again, it goes cartoon again. He was standing with in view of Peter, when he walked up to the house. They should have either left it animated, Or once the reached Olivia, and the focus shifted to her, it should have gone live action, and staid that way, at that point we should have seen live action Nimoy, and every thing. I know this wasn't a big deal for a lot of folks I know, but I thought it was a kind of plot whole. However I love the ep anyways.
Though I would have loved it if they had managed to get Nimoy in a computer. That would have been cool.
Of course Nimoy has never been the same since McCoy put his brain back in, in the Original series, and in the movies, he died, and was brought back to life. Not to mention all the time traveling. And now he has been put in an alternate dimension, Died again, and was brought back again, this time in a ladies body, and now has been animated. Oh, wait, make that animated again. The poor guy has kind of been put through it, enough, on screen, without being put into a computer...........Um....Again. :lol
Best show in a long while! I love everything about that show, I care for the characters, I love the camera work (although at the beginning of this season I thought there were major issues with lighting, making everything look like cheap soap opera), I love the production design, nothing that I can complain about! And I can´t remember any real filler episodes to date!
I do hope that they don´t let it run too long and inevitably past it´s prime :unsure
I do hope that they don´t let it run too long and inevitably past it´s prime :unsure
handler
Well-Known Member
I may have a bit of a different opinion here about the recent episodes, but here's my take. I have been put off from the plot line as of late. Over the last few episodes, I have been growing tired of the bad impression Olivia has been attempting. The show went from weekly suspense/mystery crime stories into some metaphysical body-stealing mind takeover by Bell, which stretched things way too far for me. Personally, I would be fine with them sticking to the deeper storyline of the machine and Peter and the two worlds.
It just seemed that bringing Bell back into the story was a bit useless and only made for filler shows to stretch the season for some reason. I'm just put off that the whole series went way off mark taking this turn like they did. I'll be happy when they get back on track because I love the show and want to see it focused to a strong finish whenever they do end the show at some point in the future.
It just seemed that bringing Bell back into the story was a bit useless and only made for filler shows to stretch the season for some reason. I'm just put off that the whole series went way off mark taking this turn like they did. I'll be happy when they get back on track because I love the show and want to see it focused to a strong finish whenever they do end the show at some point in the future.
That's what I've been saying for weeks. I liked last weeks episode, for a lot of reasons, but I'm so glad that whole Bell story line is over, and we can get back to the real story at hand, and away from these filler episodes.
They (and other shows) have done this before. Some shows here that folks aren't into their main story line, and they change things up, and usually make things worse. (like Heroes did, over, and over again) Or, they seem to feel that there main story falls short of a full season, so right in the middle of the story, they through in a bunch of, some what, non-sequitur episodes, to fill the gap.
I mean, come on. The rools of physics, the very fabric of space, and time, are falling apart, at least two leavers of the multi verse are collapsing, and you have a giant weapon you don't understand, and your going to go off, and deal with every little nothing case around you, and then have fun with died friend, in the body of one of your new friend? I don't think so. If that has to happen at all, you have teem "B" deal with that. (well, you would form a teem "B" and let them deal with it) Wall you deal with that whole END OF THE WORD, APPOCALYPSE, THING.
I mean Nimoy himself said it best, "The needs of the many, out way the needs of the few, or the one."
I'm just sayin'.
It's such a shame William Bell / Nimoy haven't been used much - and apparently won't be. In the first season especially, Massive Dynamic and William Bell are this big question mark - What are or aren't they involved in? How much of this is by Bell's own design? How did they know of an upcoming war? What is their relationship to ZFT? And I could go on...
It would seem that we'll never see any of this on screen now. Unless they recast William Bell or something. :unsure
It would seem that we'll never see any of this on screen now. Unless they recast William Bell or something. :unsure
Larry Young
Master Member
I think any serious answer to that sort of thing was solved at the end of that season with Olivia ending up in Bell's office in the two towers.
We don't really need Belly himself, because, as shown with the soul magnet files and whatnot, anytime they need Bell for a story reason, they can revisit his office in Massive Dynamic. I don't see much more than one season left unless they really blow the doors off next year and people get in on it; Ken Tucker wrote a pretty good piece on it a couple weeks back before the Season Four order -- but the dream zeppelin/X-shirt guy seems to be his own thing and not tied to Bell specifically.
I love Nimoy, and I was really glad to see him getting work, but really I'm not that sad to see Bell go.
I'm all to familiariar with the kind of relationship that Bell, and Walter have, or had, and I'm not a fan. (having been there far to many times myself.) You have Walter, remembering Bell as his best friend, his partner, and the only person in this world, or any other that truly gets him. He sees Bell as his kind of kindred spirit, that was his at the same time, his equal, and his other half. On the other hand, Bell just sees Walter as a buffoon, a tagalong, and joke. Some sycophantic, trouble some reminder of what a waste his youth was and how far he, himself has come, and what he gladly left behind. He long since moved on, and Walter can't. So wall Bell is (was) alive, all Walter can talk, or think about, is his best friend, and partner, in his mind, his only equal, and yet someone he looks up to. He would have spent what's left of his life, going on, and on, about the great things Bell did, and how great it would be if he was here now. However, with Bell died. it forces Walter to say, "It would be cool if he were hear, but that boat has sailed, and it's time to move on, grow up, and get to work." In stead of always dreaming of that other half to compete him, he can see that all he need, and all he can count on, is himself. I think it open's up the show, to really show some much needed growth in Walter.
By the end of the show, I would like to see Walter, whole, and independent, but still exocentric.
I'm all to familiariar with the kind of relationship that Bell, and Walter have, or had, and I'm not a fan. (having been there far to many times myself.) You have Walter, remembering Bell as his best friend, his partner, and the only person in this world, or any other that truly gets him. He sees Bell as his kind of kindred spirit, that was his at the same time, his equal, and his other half. On the other hand, Bell just sees Walter as a buffoon, a tagalong, and joke. Some sycophantic, trouble some reminder of what a waste his youth was and how far he, himself has come, and what he gladly left behind. He long since moved on, and Walter can't. So wall Bell is (was) alive, all Walter can talk, or think about, is his best friend, and partner, in his mind, his only equal, and yet someone he looks up to. He would have spent what's left of his life, going on, and on, about the great things Bell did, and how great it would be if he was here now. However, with Bell died. it forces Walter to say, "It would be cool if he were hear, but that boat has sailed, and it's time to move on, grow up, and get to work." In stead of always dreaming of that other half to compete him, he can see that all he need, and all he can count on, is himself. I think it open's up the show, to really show some much needed growth in Walter.
By the end of the show, I would like to see Walter, whole, and independent, but still exocentric.
handler
Well-Known Member
Something else that bothered me about the whole body-takeover thing with Bell on Olivia: the non-emergency attitude and lack of distress amongst the people around her--especially Peter--was very unbelievable (as if the rest of the series is!). If I were Peter and had the love of my life completely overtaken by some spirit, I'd be pissed off, stressed, and have an all-around nasty attitude until my beloved was returned. So, in that respect, the character of Peter was not believable which also was a big turn-off of this silly filler of a storyline.
Well, Peter does tend to have a pretty laid back, dead pan, way of reacting to things in general. But yeah, a little to cool about the whole thing. In season one, if no-one seamed into doing anything to fix the situation fast enogh, he might have gone and found a way of getting it done on his own. Now, he's like "Fix this...... Oh, you guess are going to wait a few days, wall the world falls apart, and my girl might be lost for ever, that's cool."
I don't know, tonights was pretty good, but the sad part is, it felt kind of rushed. Here they had all these weeks of filler eps, and then they rush the conclusion of the main story line? There was a lot of stuff that just felt forced, and crammed in, to one ep, that seems like it should have at least had 2 episodes to tell.
I think who they handle this finally will set the tone for next season, and if the show makes it or not. I mean, they could have it all turn out fine, have a happy ending, and have no real reason to talk about the alternate universe again, and just move one to other wired stuff in the world that has nothing to do with MD. Then again, they could have use loose, or at least really get Fed up, and then next season we have to deal with them in some devastated wasteland, or trying to lay low in the other universe, or something, that I think would loose a lot of fans, and their ratings.
I think there best bet is to bring this story line to a happy, but at least simi permanentt ending, and just move on next season. Come up with something new, and let the show and characters grow in new ways.
handler
Well-Known Member
As Larry says above, I agree that I don't really see more than one season left unless something miraculous in the storyline happens.
At some point, the series will have a finale, one that ends the entire program. The key to have an everlasting good effect and memory is to not be disjointed about the storyline and keep viewers interested enough to be satisfied once the series does end forever. I would much rather have a concise, precision-guided story that is not schizophrenic in the way they tell it, staying on mark, and ending with something definitive. If they can keep the riff-raff fillers out that are useless and needless to the storyline, then I'll be a much happier viewer and will be content when the series does close shop for good.
At some point, the series will have a finale, one that ends the entire program. The key to have an everlasting good effect and memory is to not be disjointed about the storyline and keep viewers interested enough to be satisfied once the series does end forever. I would much rather have a concise, precision-guided story that is not schizophrenic in the way they tell it, staying on mark, and ending with something definitive. If they can keep the riff-raff fillers out that are useless and needless to the storyline, then I'll be a much happier viewer and will be content when the series does close shop for good.
Well here is the thing. There are a lot of shows that have managed to have great stand alone episodes, wall still having a season long story arc. They manage to tell tons of little, but quality stories, wall having and underlying theme. This is not one of those shows. At first they were really good at telling week to week stories, but couldn't work out a very good story arc, for the first season or so. Then The got stuck on the who alternate universe thing, and then they got lost. For weeks, heck, months at a time, they would focus on nothing but the AU, and then would try to through in disjointed throw away episodes. Many of the AU episodes wouldn't stand well on there own.
The thing is, I was always taut, if your going to tell, or write a series of stories, each story needs to be able to stand on it's own, so if the reader/viewer drops in mid stream they can fallow what is going on, and still have a chance of enjoying it. It's fin, in fact encouraged to have and underlying, unifying story arc, but it shouldn't be all consuming. However, once you commit to a path, you have to stick with it. As I sad this show started out telling weekly stand alone stories, with and underlying story arc, that worked quite well, now it's a show that is about an alternate universe, and there is really no rume for the side stories about nothing right now. They need to bring this story to an end. SOON. Then get back on track, with a next season being great stand alone episodes, the unifying story arc, as a subtext that runs evenly under it all, for the full length of the season. (EVENLY. )
My girlfriend hasn't really seen any more then one, maybe two episodes. (though I keep begging here to give it a chance, since she is a nerd.) The problem is, most shows I watch, or have watched, she could just set down, and watch a random episode with me, and g et what is going on, and have fun watching it. However, with the last couple of season of fringe she can't do that. Sure there are those episodes that she can watch wit hme, from the last season or two, but there are a lot of them, that feel like you just set down for 5 minutes of a movie, half way through. The one episode she did watch with me, she kept saying "What? Why did that happen." "Why would the y do that." "Who is that guy" "why do you like Walter so much?" "Hold on, now there in an alternate univers" "No, now there in Ours universe?" No, wais, is this our universe, or the othe one?" And i have to say, it's all very, very, simple, if you just set down, and watch all 3 seasons, or at least the last 2, so you have some idea what is going on. You shouldn't have to make someone go back and watch a whole series from the start, just so they have some idea what is going on, in one episode. They have no chance of hucking new watchers that way.
They need to wrap up this story, and move on, but I do think someone has to die. it's one of only a few ways, to both help wrap up this story, and give a feeling of loss, and give you something to carry over to the next season without dominating the next season. It should be someone who's loss will truly be felt, but not kill the show, or make us not want to watch. it should be someone that could be replaced easily, but who we would still miss. And it should be someone we wouldn't see coming. Like Nina, or Broils, or Astrid. I would prefer that it's not one of those cruel, pointless deaths we see in most modern stories, but rather a more traditional heroes tall. One of those deals, where the little guy, the thus far unsong hero, steps up in the moment of need, has there moment in the spot light, and then dies in a glorious, sacrofice, that is not completely out of character, but yet makes us remember them more fondly then we would have if they had just died needlessly.
Oh, well, none of us are writers for the show, and they will do, what they will do, and these next few episodes are in the can, so we will see what happens.
The thing is, I was always taut, if your going to tell, or write a series of stories, each story needs to be able to stand on it's own, so if the reader/viewer drops in mid stream they can fallow what is going on, and still have a chance of enjoying it. It's fin, in fact encouraged to have and underlying, unifying story arc, but it shouldn't be all consuming. However, once you commit to a path, you have to stick with it. As I sad this show started out telling weekly stand alone stories, with and underlying story arc, that worked quite well, now it's a show that is about an alternate universe, and there is really no rume for the side stories about nothing right now. They need to bring this story to an end. SOON. Then get back on track, with a next season being great stand alone episodes, the unifying story arc, as a subtext that runs evenly under it all, for the full length of the season. (EVENLY. )
My girlfriend hasn't really seen any more then one, maybe two episodes. (though I keep begging here to give it a chance, since she is a nerd.) The problem is, most shows I watch, or have watched, she could just set down, and watch a random episode with me, and g et what is going on, and have fun watching it. However, with the last couple of season of fringe she can't do that. Sure there are those episodes that she can watch wit hme, from the last season or two, but there are a lot of them, that feel like you just set down for 5 minutes of a movie, half way through. The one episode she did watch with me, she kept saying "What? Why did that happen." "Why would the y do that." "Who is that guy" "why do you like Walter so much?" "Hold on, now there in an alternate univers" "No, now there in Ours universe?" No, wais, is this our universe, or the othe one?" And i have to say, it's all very, very, simple, if you just set down, and watch all 3 seasons, or at least the last 2, so you have some idea what is going on.
You shouldn't have to make someone go back and watch a whole series from the start, just so they have some idea what is going on, in one episode. They have no chance of hucking new watchers that way.They need to wrap up this story, and move on, but I do think someone has to die. it's one of only a few ways, to both help wrap up this story, and give a feeling of loss, and give you something to carry over to the next season without dominating the next season. It should be someone who's loss will truly be felt, but not kill the show, or make us not want to watch. it should be someone that could be replaced easily, but who we would still miss. And it should be someone we wouldn't see coming. Like Nina, or Broils, or Astrid. I would prefer that it's not one of those cruel, pointless deaths we see in most modern stories, but rather a more traditional heroes tall. One of those deals, where the little guy, the thus far unsong hero, steps up in the moment of need, has there moment in the spot light, and then dies in a glorious, sacrofice, that is not completely out of character, but yet makes us remember them more fondly then we would have if they had just died needlessly.
Oh, well, none of us are writers for the show, and they will do, what they will do, and these next few episodes are in the can, so we will see what happens.
Larry Young
Master Member
They're not making this show for people like your girlfriend; they're making it for people like me who screamed in delight the first time they showed the 1985 credits or who reacted similarly when we realized that amber was the stuff bleeding over on that bus IN THE PILOT.
Consumers of entertainment need to start appreciating what they get instead of bellyaching about what they're not. Reminds me of people I know in San Francisco from NYC who constantly complain that SF isn't like "the City." Yeah? Go back, then.
Consumers of entertainment need to start appreciating what they get instead of bellyaching about what they're not. Reminds me of people I know in San Francisco from NYC who constantly complain that SF isn't like "the City." Yeah? Go back, then.
Not for my girlfriend? Hm. Let's see, she is a HUGE sci-fi nerd, she loves science, and sci-fi. She loved the X-files. She is a child of the 80's and would have loved ever last bit of that episodes 80's-esk aspects.
Oh, yeah, and quantum physics is one of her very favorite topics. So she loves anything to do with multiple universes.
Kind of seems to me this would have been the perfect show for her.
You don't think a person should be able to enjoy a show, if they just ketch a random episode? You don't want the show to ketch the random viewer, and make them fans too, so your show can stay on the air? Ok.
I get your point, but were just talking here. it's not like anyone is really listening to us anyway's. Heck, they listened to the fans when it came to "Heroes", and over, and over, again, they changed the show to try to fit the fans, and it killed that show.
That said, Folk have the right to talk, and if they don't like something they have a right to say that too. Yeah, if you move from NC to SF, you shouldn't spend all your time saying you hate SF, or else you should just leave, and find a place you do like, but at the same time, if you are in SF, and you hate it there, you shouldn't spend all your time saying "G I love this place, and everything about it".
You like the show, as is. I get it. I would like to see some changes. Both ideas can exist without having to move to an alternate universe. :lol
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Larry Young
Master Member
If your girlfriend is a huge SF geek, what's wrong with getting the DVDs and watching 'em all straight through?
handler
Well-Known Member
I'd like to see them wrap up this season with the destruction of the alternate universe and call it a day. After doing that, they can focus on a fresh look with new cases for next season.
I'd be okay with Astrid biting the dust. She's Walter's puppet and doesn't contribute much to the story, so let her go out in a blaze of amber glory or saving Peter from the machine and jumping in herself just as it activates, thus completing the alternate universe's destruction.
How's that?
I'd be okay with Astrid biting the dust. She's Walter's puppet and doesn't contribute much to the story, so let her go out in a blaze of amber glory or saving Peter from the machine and jumping in herself just as it activates, thus completing the alternate universe's destruction.
How's that?
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