First sculpt and am in desperate need of advice.

Discussion in 'Sculpture and Makeup Effects' started by MMCD, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    Hi there I'm looking for some advice on adding wrinkles to my gorilla head sculpt.
    My big problem is I carve in my wrinkle lines and then use a brush and water to smooth them out after blending them as best I can with my wooden tools.
    This is where the problem starts I seem to be washing most of the detail away even though I'm using a small soft brush with not a lot of water.

    Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Jessica

    Jessica Well-Known Member

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    pics or it didn't happen.
     
  3. SMOKE

    SMOKE Well-Known Member

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    I would try less water than what your using now. Not sure how much "not a lot" is, but less water seems like the right step forward. Try dampening your brush to the point where you like "is this thing even wet?" and then try to smooth them out. If that does nothing then make it a tiny bit damper.

    Rinse and repeat until it all smooths out..(pun intended)

    What kind of clay are you using btw?
     
  4. AMPETITE

    AMPETITE New Member

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    Try rolling clay "worms" to create hills and valleys for 3D effect . So in between two wrinkle lines add a worm of clay then smooth. Many people have great success with this technique. Jordu Schell states that he picked this up from Rick Baker. It can be quite a look. Try layering them and all sorts of combinations. Good luck
     
  5. Leigh

    Leigh Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Your using an oil based clay right?? I'm no expert but I'm using a technique on Bob that works for me.
    I use cling film! I apply it to the surface pressing very lightly & I use a brush to push it into shapes on the surface. I then carve my line, dot my dot etc & peel the film off.
    I found it frustrating that if you carve a line etc without film, the displaced clay forms a raised area on either side of your cut. With the film in place as you push into the clay you push the film in aswell & the displaced clay doesnt form those raised areas.
    I have found as time has gone by that I dont use the cling film as much as I used to & I've started to just blend stuff in with the tools or use the tools in a way that has the desired effect :)
    I've only been at this for a year & have alot to learn myself yet.
    I also found some usefull vids on youtube :)
    HTH :)
     
  6. Durrett

    Durrett Active Member

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    The quality of my sculpting went up a lot after I started using one of these to sculpt. It's like a brush made of rubber. great for wrinkles and folds.
     
  7. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    I Hope this works, first time responding with Multi quotes...
    If it messes up my apologies...

    Some pic's will be coming soon for you Jessica

    Thanks for the advice SMOKE i'll try less water... Not a lot seemed to explain small amounts well at the time :)
    WED clay

    Thanks AMPETITE if this works for Rick Baker and Jordu i'm trying it!

    Awesome, thanks Leigh. I'm trying this to see what effects i can get!...

    Fantastic! going to order one of them and check out the results thanks Durrett.

    Thanks all of you for all your advice.
    Loads of great techniques and tools to try.

    If anyone else wants to throw ideas into the mix of what works for them when sculpting wrinkles or other fleshy details, please fire away I'm sure loads of noob's like myself will find this useful.
     
  8. Leigh

    Leigh Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I dont know if the cling film method will work with WED clay :confused it might just make a mess of your surface????
    If your on a really tight budget (like me :$) you can make your own rubber tipped tools with some old paint brushes & a pencil eraser :)
     
  9. NexusFX

    NexusFX Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    wed is suuuper soft, and is the majority of why the water is messing you up. wed is really for speed sculpts and throwaway. If you want to really get down and dirty pick up some monster makers clay. Im sure 90% of the guys on here can vouch for its awesomeness.
     
  10. SMOKE

    SMOKE Well-Known Member

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    From what I hear monster makers is awesome stuff. I use nsp chavant medium and couldn't be happier. It's a close cheaper alternative to monster makers.
     
  11. Jessica

    Jessica Well-Known Member

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    I've never worked with the medium you are using. For one of my ape masks I used what they had at the art store at the time, which was Klean Klay but it was super soft. Really hard to work with I found out but it was what I had so I had to make it work. I also didn't realize that it came in different hardnesses. Now I just use this clay to make walls for my 1:6 molding.
     
  12. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    Thanks once again for all the info' I do have some Monster makers clay it came included when I bought one of their mask making kits, but I found it a little tough to use as this is my first time sculpting anything.

    I am going to try out all the various suggestions: the rubber tool, The carved pencil eraser, the Cling Film with the WED and will let you know my results.

    In the meantime here are some cell phone pics of what i have done so far looking forward to starting in on weekend 2.... Come on Friday!

    First time posting images so bear with me if this doesn't work!
     
  13. Leigh

    Leigh Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thats impressive!! to say the least (y)thumbsup:thumbsup
     
  14. Jessica

    Jessica Well-Known Member

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    Oh now I see what you mean! I think one of the tricks I learned to get rid of those little bits of excess clay is to dust baby powder on a soft paint brush and work it off of your sculpt. I'm not sure if this would work with what clay you are using, but when I used Klean Klay it worked for me.
     
  15. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    WOW, thanks Leigh that's high praise indeed I've been following your Bob project and after seeing that I know I still have a ways to to.

    Hi Jessica thanks for the tip... How did you find out that the powder helps to remove the little clay lumps.

    I do have a couple of questions for you...

    Does the powder dry out the sculpt?
    Should I do this as a last step before casting?
     
  16. Jessica

    Jessica Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure if it dries out the clay you are using. I found out from reading through another forum...fxlab forum..or is it effectslab?...I didn't overpowder either...but it did help to brush off that lose clay. I think it would work out ok for you and I would do it throughout just to keep my work neat. It was very helpful with the super soft Klean Klay I was using though. But again, I am not an expert and it was a useful tip that helped me.

    Here's a link to the other forum: http://www.theeffectslab.com/forums/index.php
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  17. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    Thanks Jessica, I'll check out the link.
     
  18. 88OrBust

    88OrBust Member

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    I would recommend keeping a bag pulled over your sculpture when your not working on it. Some people put a damp cloth over there sculptures, but this just forms mold. Also when working with wed don't use the water so much that your sculpture becomes a mud pie. Let the clay dry out just a little bit before detailing because this is when the best detail can be obtained. Also for dulling detail try using a stipple sponge or scotch brite pad with a plastic bag under it. Also when doing wrinkles this technique works well. It is better illustrated in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr70NCQlh20
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  19. Jessica

    Jessica Well-Known Member

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    Oh...forgot to mention that I ended up using a very soft brush to brush off the clay dregs because at the time, I did not have canned air. A deft touch worked wonders.
     
  20. NexusFX

    NexusFX Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    take some canned air flip it upside down and freeze the little excess clay. then just brush it off. stan winston trick ;)
     
  21. 88OrBust

    88OrBust Member

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    Indeed.
     
  22. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    Awesome!

    Thanks to all of you for this latest round of tips, I'm looking forward to trying all of them out this weekend.

    88OrBust did you purchase the Stan Winston stream that example clip was from. if so what did you think of it?
    I've been looking at buying some of the streaming content but haven't got around to trying any of the lessons out yet.
     
  23. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    So I finished the sculpt this weekend... will post pics soon!

    I found that the baby powder suggestion didn't work so well with WED clay (could possibly be the way i was doing it)

    The cling wrap worked great and so did the worms of clay techniques.

    I never got the chance to try the compressed air upside down but will give that a shot next time.

    Thanks once again for all your help with the sculpt. Now i'm going to be asking for help with moulding. I've never moulded anything before and have never used fiberglass ever.

    So i'm off to do some research as to what to coat the sculpt with so it releases and look for fiberglass 101 online.

    Many thanks again to everyone who helped me with this, its much appreciated.
     
  24. Black Thorn

    Black Thorn New Member

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    Oh very nice indeed. You're certainly on the right road judging by what I'm seeing here. :D

    I myself usually try and steer clear of too much water and as you've found out the old clingfilm trick works quite well depending on what you're trying to do.
     
  25. Jessica

    Jessica Well-Known Member

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    Also the thickness of the plastic film will create different effects. You will have to experiment. Sorry the baby powder did not work well for your medium of choice. I was using Klean Klay as the medium when I did the baby powder trick.
     
  26. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    Seeing as a lot of usefull information has already been shared here regarding adding skin texture to sculpts I thought I'd pass on this "slice of fried gold" that I found on the FXLab..

    TheEffectsLab.com :: View topic - Sculpting Neck Detail -step by step

    This is some awesome information to add to the fantastic info' already shared here.

    I haven't forgotten about posting some finished sculpt pictures I'll try to take care of that this weekend.
     
  27. Jessica

    Jessica Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting that little nugget. Haven't actually tried it yet but it's good in my arsenal. Actually there's tons of very useful information at the effectslab.
     
  28. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    I agree there is a bunch of great info' on the effectslab site unfortunately its kind of spread out so you need to hunt for it.
    Also sometimes what your looking for might not be posted under a heading that makes it easy to find.

    Here are some awful quality images of my finished sculpt...

    I wish i'd had the correct colored eyes...
     
  29. Rosalita

    Rosalita New Member

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    I really like the look! You're inspiring me to get back to doing some sculpting, haven't in a LONG time.
     
  30. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    Awesome Rosalita... post up some pic's when you do!
     
  31. MMCD

    MMCD New Member

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    I'm going to move on to stage 2 with this project... Casting!

    Not sure about the RPF rules here, should i start a new thread or does this one work?

    So any advice on casting would be awesome as this is something else i've never done before.

    Here is what i'd like to achieve...
    Eventually i'd like this to be fully animatronic head... Eyes, Eyelids, Brows, Lips and Jaw.
    I know, Its a big project for someone who has never done any of this type of work before.
    If i'm going to do this i may as well jump in with both feet and try...

    Next stage is:- Mold the head

    I'm going to need a fiberglass under skull eventually.
    So do i go Glass for the face mold?

    I've been reading a ton of info on molding and i'm confused!

    If i go with Silicone then glass i've heard the silicone wont cure because i'm using water based clay WED.

    If i go Ultracal it will way a ton but i don't understand how i'd make a Glass under skull from a plaster mold.

    A gentleman on another site used some sort of spray on wax before glassing the sculpt directly but apparently they don't make that wax anymore.

    I'm totally confused with how to proceed, too much information and it all says something different about how not to do it.
    Any help to clarify what i should do next would be appreciated, the sculpt is sitting in plastic bags with a spray bottle by its side till i can sort out my next step.
     
  32. mrfnydude

    mrfnydude Member

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    Wow nice Ape Detail!
     
  33. Leigh

    Leigh Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That looks Fantastic!! (y)thumbsup:thumbsup :)
     

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