Edge of Tomorrow ( Live Die Repeat) (Post-release)

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

They aren't great shots, but here are our pics of the Edge of Tomorrow suits from Comic Con last year.

http://www.therpf.com/gallery/g964-edge-of-tomorrow.html

 

[Vivek]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

Edge Of The Bechdel Test: Why Counting Box Office Is More Important Than Counting Interactions | Badass Digest

 

[Father]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

I liked the movie. I'm surprised it's not doing better, but I don't think Oblivion killed it in the box office in any way, did it?
I think they did it as good as it could have been done.
The exosuits are ok. They seem realistic to to what could be done today which is cool. They didn't try to do something like the power loader in Aliens or the mech in Matrix or Avatar or the VSs from Lost Planet. I appreciated their clunkiness for this movie. They weren't terribly graceful and not so powerful you can't figure out why we would lose the war. If they were all running around in Iron Man suits it would be too played out.
The story was good... maybe a little dry. Not unlike Oblivion. but it was a fun ride and definitely worth a second viewing.

Edge Of The Bechdel Test: Why Counting Box Office Is More Important Than Counting Interactions | Badass Digest

How about the Cruise test. Is it soon be defunct?

(A) "Does he still seem youthful enough to convincingly pull off the action?"

(B) "Do his religious beliefs in away way permeate into the movie?"

(C) "Does he still have some kind of realistic, every-man quality?"

Yes... he's getting older but in comparison to other farts in the business I'd say he's holding up pretty well. It's not even close to being embarassing like watching Bruce Willis team up with The Rock or Stallone team up with Scharzenegger. He's still got a pretty young look about him.

Never... For all the hate the guy gets for his religious beliefs I can't think of any movies where his views have been the centerpiece of the movie... or even a subversive element.

I think the guy can still pull off short moments of light, realistic humor. As much as I loved Les Grossman, I'd hate to see him make a new career of being a pardoy of himself like some actors. Stick to what you're good at.

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

Man... I have been so excited to see this movie. The premise was interesting (although as always, they show WAY too much of it in the trailers/posters) and the toys looked cool. I was thrilled when early reviews weren't just good but VERY good and I tried to temper my excitement, but at the same time, I WAS excited!

So, what was my overall take? Good. Just good. And maybe that is good enough, but I wanted great. I needed great, and this movie just didn't deliver it. It had all the potential and many moments of greatness but it was brought down by cliches and lame ideas that we have seen a million times before.

The Good

• The Premise. Not overly original, but with enough new and interesting elements that it wasn't boring.
• In some ways, what Starship Troopers would have been if it had not been a satire
• The action on the beach is intense.
• Tom Cruise still has it.
• The jacks are awesome and just the right amount of tech.
• The aliens are interesting and alien enough.
• Rita. BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN! I have a huge pet peeve about how "strong women" are often written but it really doesn't get a whole lot better than this. Why? Because it absolutely doesn't matter than she is a woman! At its core, this is a buddy story and the fact that the buddy is a woman has very little impact on the story. Rita is completely competent and capable without the sadly cliched stereotype of acting like a man! I don't like her as much as Shaw from Prometheus or Anderson from Dredd, but she is right up there as one of my favorite female characters!

The Bad
(Spoilers)

• Bill really does not have much of a story arc. Honestly, the vast majority of the film is out of his control so you can't really give him credit for that and the last 15 or so minutes were the worst part of the film and any arc he has there, well, did he really have much of a choice there either?
• The kiss. Plain and simple; we didn't need it and it took away instead of adding to the film.
• J-Squad. Really? I know Bill started out as a loser, but did we really need the way overused cliche of a reject group? The only thing I can say is that they didn't go into the painful cliched detail for each character and we just glossed over them.
• Humor. Yes, there is ample opportunity for humor in this situation, but I think it went just a bit too far. This is a horrible situation in which someone is not only dying over and over, but having to go through the same actions again and again and again. This is some people's idea of hell... and we are making jokes of it? Again, I don't mind a little humor, but I wish we had have gone darker, earlier. I can't imagine having your brains blown out again and again and again is fun. At the very least, it would be like playing a video game and having someone constantly with their finger on the reset button and hitting it over and over. How long before you would be driven nuts?
• The aftermath scene. I absolutely can't help but believe that this movie was meant to end on a sacrificial note, but then it was run by test audiences and they didn't like it so the crappiest vanilla ending was added on that absolutely destroys the whole arc of the movie and leaves us absolutely empty and with no feeling. What was lost in the end? Nothing at all. There was no sacrifice. There was no arc. At the end, the "hero" is rewarded with not only everything being put back, but him getting back everything that was lost AND the bad guys lose. This isn't the 80's. We can handle more than that and you already somewhat did this to us in Oblivion. Did we have to do it here too?
• The last 15 minutes of the movie. For a movie that has aliens, time travel and reincarnation, it is hard to talk about things being unrealistic, but it seemed that we went from a movie in which people were very fragile when they could die and be reborn to people who were darn near indestructible once they could actually die. Almost all of the final action in Paris was just completely over-the-top and out of sync with the rest of the film. It was jarring.
• How the heck did they fit in that minivan? I mean... come on!!!
• Plotholes. Any time you have a time travel movie you are bound to have them, but man, this movie seemed to have them in spades.

For all my complaining, as I said, I did like the movie. I actually liked it quite a bit, but it just wasn't what I had hoped it would be.

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

I'll be very interested to see how "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes does" and "Guardians of the Galaxy".

I will be appalled if GotG does well.

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

Edge Of The Bechdel Test: Why Counting Box Office Is More Important Than Counting Interactions | Badass Digest

Screw those people, screw their stupid sexist test, and screw their constant hand-wringing that ultimately ties back to their definition of "acceptable." People howl for a woman who isn't simply a victim. This movie gave us that and then some. In this movie, you had an incapable man who is trained and hardened by a woman. The woman then goes on to fight side by side with him, as his equal, if not his better. She does it without any need to preach or act butch or do any of the countless stupid cliches that the more pathetic of Hollywood's writers use when trying to suck up to what they believe to be an empowered woman. We don't need Rita to talk to other women. We need her to be a competent trainer, partner and fighting machine and she is. Outside of Bill and Rita, there weren't enough other characters, men or women, that mattered enough in the movie for any conversations outside of the interaction between the two main characters to make any difference. Again, this was a buddy story and except for (again... Spoiler here) the kiss near the end, which I felt weakened the relationship, it was an awesome story in which gender did not matter at all.

I think the writer of that article is WAY overreaching, especially for a movie that has not been out even a week. If EoT doesn't do well it won't be due to the lack of two girls talking.

 

[wondersquid]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

SPOILERS!!!! SPOILERS!!!!

The aftermath scene. I absolutely can't help but believe that this movie was meant to end on a sacrificial note, but then it was run by test audiences and they didn't like it so the crappiest vanilla ending was added on that absolutely destroys the whole arc of the movie and leaves us absolutely empty and with no feeling. What was lost in the end? Nothing at all. There was no sacrifice. There was no arc. At the end, the "hero" is rewarded with not only everything being put back, but him getting back everything that was lost AND the bad guys lose. This isn't the 80's. We can handle more than that and you already somewhat did this to us in Oblivion. Did we have to do it here too?

I went to what I'm pretty sure was the FIRST screening of this and unless they did some radical tests, the ending is virtually intact. There are some changes, but not much. The Only major thing was the loss of tension at the last fight because originally they went in and Cage tells them to "Not shot an Alpha!" well of course someone does and it resets the day again, but this time, the Mimics KNOW they're coming and when they came in the first time, there was maybe a handful of enemies, but then you see HUNDREDS come in and hide, waiting for them to return, which is what you see on screen now. The problem I had with it, was that you knew the enemy was waiting and prepared, that stacked the odds against the heroes, but now it seems like a repeat of the beach slaughter again.

ART - they actually trimmed a bit from the last scene and made it seem a little LESS happy ending then the original. In the first version, cage comes up to Rita and she says nothing, she just smiles as if she remembers everything they went thru. I half expected a kiss there.

 

[Vivek]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

I think the writer of that article is WAY overreaching, especially for a movie that has not been out even a week. If EoT doesn't do well it won't be due to the lack of two girls talking.

Right, hence for now the box office numbers weren't really pertaining to EOT but to other recently released movies which were more female centric. Edge of Tomorrow despite not passing the Bechdel Test is a good example of a female friendly movie, which doesn't fall in the circles of cliches.

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

SPOILERS!!!! SPOILERS!!!!


I went to what I'm pretty sure was the FIRST screening of this and unless they did some radical tests, the ending is virtually intact. There are some changes, but not much. The Only major thing was the loss of tension at the last fight because originally they went in and Cage tells them to "Not shot an Alpha!" well of course someone does and it resets the day again, but this time, the Mimics KNOW they're coming and when they came in the first time, there was maybe a handful of enemies, but then you see HUNDREDS come in and hide, waiting for them to return, which is what you see on screen now. The problem I had with it, was that you knew the enemy was waiting and prepared, that stacked the odds against the heroes, but now it seems like a repeat of the beach slaughter again.

ART - they actually trimmed a bit from the last scene and made it seem a little LESS happy ending then the original. In the first version, cage comes up to Rita and she says nothing, she just smiles as if she remembers everything they went thru. I half expected a kiss there.

Ugh... well I am glad they saved us from that, but am even MORE disappointed that there was ANY of that scene at all. I really think they should have ended with the Omega... or shown what happened the next day, WITHOUT any sort of reset.

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

Right, hence for now the box office numbers weren't really pertaining to EOT but to other recently released movies which were more female centric. Edge of Tomorrow despite not passing the Bechdel Test is a good example of a female friendly movie, which doesn't fall in the circles of cliches.

Sorry... sorry. Getting myself all riled up over people (not you) looking for something to be offended about.

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

BTW, seriously, how long is it going to be before VIP Auctions obtains these assets and starts putting them on eBay?

 

[wondersquid]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

I would LOVE that!! I'm trying to do a replica if Cage's suit and man is it tough to find Back reference. (thanks for the shots from Comic con, totally missed this display!!)

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

I have to believe they will end up offering those pieces and you know there must be HUNDREDS of bits and part and pieces.

 

[Vivek]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

Not surprising, but just saw this mentioned on Twitter that the female leads in both Groundhog Day and Edge of Tomorrow are named Rita.

 

[CutThumb]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

Strong and interesting review Art. I’d agree with many of your points. Its curiously educational to see just what people want from a film and just how different expectations can lower or raise the bar of enjoyment.
Unfortunately there was just no way they were going to make this darker or the deaths more intense on the huge budget it had. The fact that the film pitched the styles of deaths to be so bloodlessly , gorelessly entertaining was because if they had been too graphic the vast majority of the audience would have just switched off.
Would you have liked Rita more or less if you saw the actual result of Cage continuously having his brains blown out by her, instead of the humorously trivially practical way she offhandly dispossed of him? I felt she was THE crucial character around which the whole film turned, rather than Cage . Without her bravery,intelliegence and brutal practicalities Bill would have utterly failed to develop. And watching her die the first time had a strong impact on me, as did her subsequent deaths and it was always played painfully straight, never for laughs like Bill. A huge reason why this film worked for me was just how essential Rita was for the entire story of Bill.
The effect of those endless deaths of hers on Cage clearly changed the nature of his character, so you got this satisfactory story arc from a coward with nothing to loose each day staying in the pub ,eventually choosing to die so horribly daily to help move her on.
I would have much more preferred the ending where he had died saving her then she’d killed the omega and had the reset, THEN gone back to change his destiny. That would have been more honest, surprising and interesting, but it was never going to happen in a Cruise centred film.
Personally, if the continual death scenes had been too powerfully portrayed there is no way on earth I would have been “entertained” by the film. I think that original premise of Live. Die. Repeat helped kill the widescale box office appeal of the film anyway. And I saw this happen with Dredd. I thought that was the film of the year and raved about it, but a lot of people and even my sister, who has always liked actioner sci fi films were appalled by the level of violence in it. Too close to “real life” . And it died at the BO because of it. So EOT got the playfully humourous aspect dead right for me.
Therefore I found it much easier to forgive most of the points you’ve raised quite legitimately. They were its main weaknesses, and strangely similar to those in Oblivion ,but then I thought that was a goodish film as well. I was prepared to heap scorn on it, but honestly began to enjoy watching it so much I was carried by the film ,unto the somewhat forgivably predictable end (though I still prefer my Emily Blunt centered version, mainly because she's Emily Blunt and this is by far her best character ever.)
GOTG looks good brainless entertaining predictable fun to me, much like Avengers was , so expect a glowing review of that one, unless they screw it up badly then I'll put it to death quicker than Rita would shoot a rabid racoon. But I'm really ,really hoping Dawn of the Planet of the Apes delivers because the first was such a tremendously great reboot.

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

Unfortunately there was just no way they were going to make this darker or the deaths more intense on the huge budget it had. The fact that the film pitched the styles of deaths to be so bloodlessly , gorelessly entertaining was because if they had been too graphic the vast majority of the audience would have just switched off.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, I am glad that much of the violence was goreless and bloodless. I think that many films rely too heavily on the shock-value of overt gore instead of just telling a great story. I would not have wanted to see Bill squished by a truck or brains everywhere.... actually, maybe near the end of the training montage... just to let you know, every single time, this ends badly and painfully... but, no I wouldn't have been in favor of showing the death scene again and again.

Would you have liked Rita more or less if you saw the actual result of Cage continuously having his brains blown out by her, instead of the humorously trivially practical way she offhandly dispossed of him? I felt she was THE crucial character around which the whole film turned, rather than Cage . Without her bravery,intelliegence and brutal practicalities Bill would have utterly failed to develop. And watching her die the first time had a strong impact on me, as did her subsequent deaths and it was always played painfully straight, never for laughs like Bill. A huge reason why this film worked for me was just how essential Rita was for the entire story of Bill.

I agree that Rita was pivotal but I wish there had been a bit more emphasis placed on the fact that she had to kill him every day and that every day he had to know that the day was going to end with her killing him and in a way her MAKING him relive this again and again. There is a horror there and a madness there that I think the film touched on but should have delved into more deeply. This had to be very mentally fatiguing for Bill and to some degree for Rita as well.

The effect of those endless deaths of hers on Cage clearly changed the nature of his character, so you got this satisfactory story arc from a coward with nothing to loose each day staying in the pub ,eventually choosing to die so horribly daily to help move her on.

For me, that was where the movie got the most interesting because you saw the stress and burden Bill was carrying from having to relive this moment again and again and while you are progressing, it is probably ok, but once you hit a roadblock like he did at the farm and just trying again and again and again with no difference... that has to be absolute hell.

I would have much more preferred the ending where he had died saving her then she’d killed the omega and had the reset, THEN gone back to change his destiny. That would have been more honest, surprising and interesting, but it was never going to happen in a Cruise centred film.

I really feel they both should have died to save the world.

Personally, if the continual death scenes had been too powerfully portrayed there is no way on earth I would have been “entertained” by the film. I think that original premise of Live. Die. Repeat helped kill the widescale box office appeal of the film anyway. And I saw this happen with Dredd. I thought that was the film of the year and raved about it, but a lot of people and even my sister, who has always liked actioner sci fi films were appalled by the level of violence in it. Too close to “real life” . And it died at the BO because of it. So EOT got the playfully humourous aspect dead right for me.
Therefore I found it much easier to forgive most of the points you’ve raised quite legitimately. They were its main weaknesses, and strangely similar to those in Oblivion ,but then I thought that was a goodish film as well. I was prepared to heap scorn on it, but honestly began to enjoy watching it so much I was carried by the film ,unto the somewhat forgivably predictable end (though I still prefer my Emily Blunt centered version, mainly because she's Emily Blunt and this is by far her best character ever.)

I guess I was just disappointed because there was so much potential for more and it was never realized. I can't argue with you though. Movies are made to make money and the story I would want told probably wouldn't do that very well because it would leave people with a lingering sense of unease instead of entertaining them.

GOTG looks good brainless entertaining predictable fun to me, much like Avengers was , so expect a glowing review of that one, unless they screw it up badly then I'll put it to death quicker than Rita would shoot a rabid racoon. But I'm really ,really hoping Dawn of the Planet of the Apes delivers because the first was such a tremendously great reboot.

Agreed on Rise. I have always disliked the apes movies because they seem so hokey, but Rise really made it an interesting story! Can't wait to see Dawn!

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

People howl for a woman who isn't simply a victim. This movie gave us that and then some.

Well, she was a victim of being forced to bear the time travel ability and slowly watch those closest to her die again and again to the point that she can remember every single detail of

In this movie, you had an incapable man who is trained and hardened by a woman. The woman then goes on to fight side by side with him, as his equal, if not his better. She does it without any need to preach or act butch or do any of the countless stupid cliches that the more pathetic of Hollywood's writers use when trying to suck up to what they believe to be an empowered woman. We don't need Rita to talk to other women. We need her to be a competent trainer, partner and fighting machine and she is.

That's the real trick though. As films like Gravity have shown, you don't need to have pass the bechdel test to show that you've got awesome characters who are female. I think the bigger issue with Rita isn't that she fails the bechdel test, but she fails the "Mako Mori" test as well. Here's the deal.

a) at least one female character
b) who gets her own narrative arc
c) that is not about supporting a man’s story.

Good on the first two, but completely bombs on the last one. Rita may be tough and better than Tom Cruise's character in a lot of ways, but her entire role is solely for Cage's development and not hers. In fact, Rita reminded me a lot of Wyldstyle from the Lego movie. Both enter the film as super tough characters who want to end this huge threat. Both believe they have this power to do what's right, but in the end it all falls on some guy who starts out as the least qualified person to do it. Despite both characters having the ability to do the same thing that the main hero does, the story is written to the point where all they do is stay behind while the main hero does all the work and both Wyldstyle and Rita wind up as a reward in the end.

I'll give it to you that the film didn't reduce Rita to a mere victim Art, but "and than some"? No. "And than some" would have had Rita taking up Cage's role in the end.

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

a) at least one female character
b) who gets her own narrative arc
c) that is not about supporting a man’s story.

If people were truly as gender unbiased as they claim to want the rest of the world to be, these things wouldn't matter to them and they wouldn't care so much about what piping the characters had and instead would be focused on the fact that the story is about a fellow human being. Demanding that there be X many of X type of people whether based on race, sex, religion or whatever, is in itself discriminatory and shows that those demanding it aren't as above it all as they like to claim.

As I said before, the great thing about Rita is that you don't care that she is a woman, nor does it matter that Bill is a man. They are simply two people in need of one another to set things straight. For a moment, let us switch Rita and Bill's genders. Would the story be stronger? No. Would we care more? No. Would it fill a modern social agenda? I don't think so because then the people who are screaming about a woman supporting a man would be whining about the fact that it took a man to support a woman in order for her to achieve her goals. Victims and whiners will find something to be a victim about no matter what. I stand by the fact that Rita is a fantastic character and despite the horridly insensitive story of her supporting a man (how dare she!), I really liked how she was written!

Rita may be tough and better than Tom Cruise's character in a lot of ways, but her entire role is solely for Cage's development and not hers. In fact, Rita reminded me a lot of Wyldstyle from the Lego movie. Both enter the film as super tough characters who want to end this huge threat. Both believe they have this power to do what's right, but in the end it all falls on some guy who starts out as the least qualified person to do it. Despite both characters having the ability to do the same thing that the main hero does, the story is written to the point where all they do is stay behind while the main hero does all the work and both Wyldstyle and Rita wind up as a reward in the end.

I'll give it to you that the film didn't reduce Rita to a mere victim Art, but "and than some"? No. "And than some" would have had Rita taking up Cage's role in the end.

Ummm... that was impossible for most of the movie. She had lost the ability so what other role could she play... and again, if the gender's were reversed, aside from appealing to a modern ideal of feminism, what difference would it have made in the story? None. Bill could have easily been a woman and Rita could have been the man supporting her and the story would have played out the same. If Bill had taken on the Alpha, while Rita took out the Omega, would it have made the movie better? No. Why? Because they had a single goal. She wasn't supporting his goal but their mutual goal.

I also disagree that Rita's role was solely for Cage's development. Rita WAS the hero for a long time (prior to the movie) and is even shown again and again in propaganda posters as the hero. She was the time traveler for a while until it was taken from her. At that point, there was only one role she could serve... wait for it to happen someone else (and since there were female troops as well as male, it could have been a female troop that killed an Alpha and became the next traveler... would you have complained if Rita had partnered with another female? Beyond that, Rita's role was not to develop Cage but to stand as a partner with him. She brought him up to her level and then together they took one painful step after another, together as they got closer and closer to their goal, which was not rehabilitating Cage but saving the world. This is where I see this as a buddy movie, not much different than Die Hard or Lethal Weapon. One character could not do it own their own without the other. Rita wasn't helping Cage achieve his goal and potential. They were helping one another achieve a greater goal that they shared. I think you might be confusing this with something like "The Legend of Bagger Vance" or are you just still angry about Prometheus?

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

One character could not do it own their own without the other.

Well, except that one time in the film where it depicts Rita as the reason why the dam mission wasn't working. It's not until Cage decides to not involve her that he actually gets stuff done. Yep. They're on equal footing, but she's the one who can't figure things out even when it's spelled out to her.

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow (Post-release)

Well, except that one time in the film where it depicts Rita as the reason why the dam mission wasn't working. It's not until Cage decides to not involve her that he actually gets stuff done. Yep. They're on equal footing, but she's the one who can't figure things out even when it's spelled out to her.

Did we watch the same film?

Rita wasn't the reason the mission wasn't working. Bill's lack of willingness to allow her to die permanently was the issue. That was a shortcoming on his part, not hers.