Disney buying Lucasfilm (new Star Wars movies on tap)
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
If there was no market for new editions of the Star Wars trilogy in different media formats then they wouldn't keep releasing edition after edition. Not to mention that every edition broke sales records, and the title is always at the top of the list of every new media format. When people upgrade to a new media platform, the transition usually coincides with the release of Star Wars on that format.
'Star Wars' breaks Blu-ray sales records | The Digital Home - CNET News
In brief: Star Wars DVD breaks sales record | Film | guardian.co.uk
Star Wars: The saga fans can't stop buying | News.com.au
This isn't just conjecture. And the demand for the theatrical cuts isn't just a corner market. The restoration may cost a lot, but Disney has the capital to do it, and the return would be substantial. Not to mention the fact that with every new release it's the hope that they will include the theatrical cuts. Nearly every article that I read regarding the Bluray release mentioned the fact that it was unfortunate that they weren't included.
I can't say for sure it will happen, but it is a real possibility.
'Star Wars' breaks Blu-ray sales records | The Digital Home - CNET News
In brief: Star Wars DVD breaks sales record | Film | guardian.co.uk
Star Wars: The saga fans can't stop buying | News.com.au
This isn't just conjecture. And the demand for the theatrical cuts isn't just a corner market. The restoration may cost a lot, but Disney has the capital to do it, and the return would be substantial. Not to mention the fact that with every new release it's the hope that they will include the theatrical cuts. Nearly every article that I read regarding the Bluray release mentioned the fact that it was unfortunate that they weren't included.
I can't say for sure it will happen, but it is a real possibility.
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Solo4114
Master Member
For a buck?
You bet.
And as has been mentioned, we've seen double- and triple-dips on multiple formats. All it requires is slight tweaking.
Hell, Lucasfilm itself did the very same thing with the OT by releasing the 2004 DVDs, then a repackaged edition (literally just changed the packaging) in 2005, and then the version with the "bonus disc" LD rips in 2006. That's one format. And I didn't even get started on VHS which (admittedly, due to shifting distro licenses) had some umpteen gajillion releases.
I think you underestimate the market for the OOT, particularly if it's remastered BETTER than the BD. The wildcards here are, in my opinion, the cost to do it, whether there's a way to salvage the SEs alongside it for minimal additional cost, and whether there's some clause or underlying handshake agreement between Lucas and Disney (or Lucas and Kathleen Kennedy) that the SEs are it -- no archival OT ever. I find that....kinda far-fetched, though. And actually, even if there's a handshake agreement between Lucas and Kennedy, if they thought there was enough demand, I could see Disney saying "No. You WILL release these or you WILL find other employment." At the end of the day, even if they're hands-off, Disney calls the shots.
I also agree with the analysis that a re-release timed around the release of the new theatrical film would make perfect sense as part of a larger scale merchandising blitz (video games, new toys, new miscellaneous merch like lunchboxes and backpacks, a new cartoon launching, etc., etc., etc.).
I wonder what kind of distribution restrictions Lucas likely would have forced upon Fox. Certainly he knew one day he would either be dead or no longer in control of LucasFilm. Considering his nature, I think he would have been very through in controlling his creative content.
Timmythekid
Sr Member
I think you've answered the question already. Yes, you could, but it would cost money, and potentially split your market. Though I guess I can see a way to do this, not to bring it up for the thousandth time in this discussion, like the Blade Runner packages however. Final Cut was released alone, in a three disc set, and as the gigantic 5 disc set. Imagine Star Wars as the current version of the movies (with Lucas gone I have to imagine that it will be the form they're in now), and then the ultimate set which includes the restored OT. The problem I think is that any attempt to re-create the SE is going to be a)Expensive and b)Controversial. LFL has had a theatrical run to offset the initial costs, then two subsequent home video releases to offset the costs of the further tweaks. Doing it all at once is bound to be more expensive. Then, do you put it back together as it stood with the BD release? Do you fix the stupidly still unocrrected stuff? Do you retain the 'new' (puke) colour timing? Doyou recreate the crushed blacks and blown highlights? Do you re-animate the ronto, using texture maps and shaders from sometime after Jurrasic freaking Park was on the screens? Do you let that "dodgy, early-gen 2011" CG work stand, or do you replace THAT because George is now uncomfortable about it standing beside the new trilogy's effects work? It's like wrangling cats - as soon as you think you'e got a handle on what it should be it'll get away from you again.
With Blade Runner there were people who passionately loved the theatrical cuts, people who loved the television cuts, people who loved the directors cut. There was an actual demand for all of the versions, particularly given the controversial history of the film. With SW I don't see a huge throng demanding that the SE be available - those people would be equally happy with the original versions, so if you're Disney, why bother?
Solo4114
Master Member
I think you're misunderstanding how licensing usually works. From a legal perspective, at this point, Lucas' wishes are irrelevant unless there's some term in the sales deal between Lucas and Disney (and even then, I'm not sure if it'd hold up in perpetuity). Lucas could put a clause into the Fox distro agreement saying "No releasing the OOT ever unless I say so" (e.g., the 2006 "bonus" discs), and that'd be all well and good, but the agreement is likely with the corporate entity that is LFL. So, the real question is whether LFL -- the corporate entity -- permits the release, assuming such a clause even exists (which I doubt it does).
Thing is, LFL no longer = George Lucas. He has, based on the stories I've read, totally divested himself of any control or interest in LFL. He doesn't own it, he doesn't manage it. It just has his name on it. That's it. Any contract negotiated between LFL and Fox can either be amended (e.g., if it has a clause saying "No release of the OOT EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES"), or the release of the OOT can be waived under the contract, or the release can simply proceed because the contract doesn't expressly prohibit it and merely CONDITIONS it on LFL's approval.
LFL = Disney now, for purposes of ultimate corporate control. Disney owns it 100%. If Disney says "Do XYZ" then LFL does XYZ. If Disney says "let Fox release the OOT" then any contract between LFL and Fox which would prevent that will no longer apply, George's wishes notwithstanding. George has no ability to prevent it anymore, from a legal perspective. He could disavow it, raise a stink about it, etc., but he can't legally stop it anymore like he could when he owned the company.
Kathleen Kennedy may be in charge of LFL and Disney may basically keep a hands-off approach to managing LFL, but if Disney wants LFL to do or not do something, then LFL will accede to Disney's wishes or Kathleen Kennedy will be out of a job, regardless of whatever she may have promised George.
Regardless, my bet is that the way the distro deal works is more that Fox gets a right to distribute whatever LFL produces for the old Star Wars stuff. So, in a practical sense, if Disney/LFL greenlights a remastering of the OOT for blu-ray release, then it goes to whatever remastering house to do that (say, Lowry again), and they remaster it. Then, per the terms of the distro agreement, that material must be given to Fox to put on discs, stick in packaging, and sent to stores. Fox gets its cut, and the rest goes back to Disney/LFL. That's it. That's the deal. Fox doesn't get to decide when it releases stuff because Fox doesn't own the content. Fox just gets a right to profit from distributing it when LFL decides to do another release. So, if Disney/LFL decides to do it, then it's happening.
Right, that's the essence of what I am saying. I agree he no longer has any control over LucasFilm and it's properties. You doubt that kind of agreement exists, I think it very well may and include the Holiday Special, to be honest. Now, could THAT withstand any legal challenges or corporate will set against it? Unclear I suppose. Otherwise agree with the means by which this could take place but still find it unlikely they will, they being Disney, when the vast majority of those purchasing STAR WRAS home media are at this point only vaguely aware theses versions exist. With the exception of Han shooting first, the vast majority of more casual fans i know prefer watching the SE and those have become the popular conscious version of the films. Well, now I suppose that been usurped by the BR release.
tgreco
Sr Member
I'm just wondering... if GL claimed for years that the Originals don't exist, and that the Special Editions were THE version of the OT
wouldn't that mean that Disney can reassemble the OT in their original versions, and I don't know... call them the Archival OT and that is THEIR property...
(think Fantasia, when they restored it and put it back together in it's original form)
Just asking
wouldn't that mean that Disney can reassemble the OT in their original versions, and I don't know... call them the Archival OT and that is THEIR property...
(think Fantasia, when they restored it and put it back together in it's original form)
Just asking
I suppose they could do so if Fox has a pre-existing agreement with LucasFilm to not release the original cut of the films as a means of circumventing that.
Lflank
Well-Known Member
I think this is a point that lots of people seem to be missing in many different areas, whether it's "Disney can't tell the 501st what to do", to "Disney can't stop fan films on YouTube", to "Disney can't do XYZ if Lucas doesn't want to", to "Disney can't do this or that if it upsets the fan base".
Disney owns Star Wars. Period.
It can do whatever the hell it wants to do, and nobody can stop it.
A bit late to the party but a couple of thoughts to share (and yes I read the entire thread up to this point).
My first impression of this was "wow" and in a positive way for the simple reason that Star Wars will continue. And not just for me, for my kids as well. That's a nice thought.
Secondly, the first thing that comes into my mind is what that new Episode VII will be like. I'm already excited to see it. Just because it is Sci-Fi and within the SW Universe. But I will only appreciate it if it is grounded in reality. That it has the same raw edge as Star Wars had, a used universe with real props and real locations, and real characters. Make it real. Make the sound effects realistic, not like in the prequels.
It could be amazing. If they really work hard and work toward effects that match or rival or surpass those of, let us say, Avatar or Prometheus, then we are in for a ride. Pass the popcorn!
opcorn
Finally, about Mark and Carrie meeting with George long before this came to light. It is pretty obvious to me what that means. Star Wars has, since it began with the penciled first rough draft, been a story about family. About the Skywalkers. So knowing George, he wouldn't meet with someone unless he wanted their support for involvement and that is clear but I think in addition to that, that Mark and Carrie will be involved as a father and mother to children and that Episode VII will follow the life of those children at some point after Episode VI that matches the natural age of Mark and Carrie. Mark and Carrie probably wouldn't play large parts, but given the clear success movies have had in finding young talented actors it makes sense, and Disney has clear record of this, to find young new talent, and then bring them on through Episodes VII, VIII and IX. I could be wrong, but my gut tells me that's the plan.
And Disney knows full well that it is the fans of Star Wars and their loyalty that drives the merchandising powerhouse. So alienating them by being overzealous with copyright infringement litigation won't be in their best interests, because the backlash could affect their other properties as well.
My first impression of this was "wow" and in a positive way for the simple reason that Star Wars will continue. And not just for me, for my kids as well. That's a nice thought.
Secondly, the first thing that comes into my mind is what that new Episode VII will be like. I'm already excited to see it. Just because it is Sci-Fi and within the SW Universe. But I will only appreciate it if it is grounded in reality. That it has the same raw edge as Star Wars had, a used universe with real props and real locations, and real characters. Make it real. Make the sound effects realistic, not like in the prequels.
It could be amazing. If they really work hard and work toward effects that match or rival or surpass those of, let us say, Avatar or Prometheus, then we are in for a ride. Pass the popcorn!
opcornFinally, about Mark and Carrie meeting with George long before this came to light. It is pretty obvious to me what that means. Star Wars has, since it began with the penciled first rough draft, been a story about family. About the Skywalkers. So knowing George, he wouldn't meet with someone unless he wanted their support for involvement and that is clear but I think in addition to that, that Mark and Carrie will be involved as a father and mother to children and that Episode VII will follow the life of those children at some point after Episode VI that matches the natural age of Mark and Carrie. Mark and Carrie probably wouldn't play large parts, but given the clear success movies have had in finding young talented actors it makes sense, and Disney has clear record of this, to find young new talent, and then bring them on through Episodes VII, VIII and IX. I could be wrong, but my gut tells me that's the plan.
And Disney knows full well that it is the fans of Star Wars and their loyalty that drives the merchandising powerhouse. So alienating them by being overzealous with copyright infringement litigation won't be in their best interests, because the backlash could affect their other properties as well.
Solo4114
Master Member
You guys are missing the point.
First, if it's a distribution contract, it's about who has the right to make and sell the discs to retailers. Think of it this way. Fox is one house that produces DVDs. Paramount is another. They make the DVDs in their fabrication facilities, package them, and then sell them by the crateload to companies like Walmart and Best Buy and Amazon. All the deal would be about is who gets to sell to those retail outlets. "Lucasfilm, Ltd. hereby grants Fox a perpetual, revocable license to manufacture and distribute all home entertainment media pertaining to Star Wars theatrical releases."
There'd be no reason to have a clause in such a document restricting Fox from selling this or that version of the film. Fox isn't making that decision. Fox is just getting the right to burn the discs and wholesale 'em to Walmart. That's why there's no reason to restrict them: there's nothing to restrict.
Think of it this way. Fox doesn't go to LFL and say "Hey, we want to do another release of Star Wars, this time in the old school poster packaging. Sound good?" LFL instead is saying "We've got another release coming up. This one will be in packaging with the following design. Can your plant do that?"
Even if such a clause existed, the parties could simply agree to amend the contract and get rid of it. Since Disney = LFL now, if Disney wants to do a run of the Holiday Special...they can do it and Fox will distribute it.
Now, we can debate the likelihood of Disney doing it, but there's nothing to legally stop from doing so if they want to (them that I could imagine, anyway).
That's what I was thinking as well over in the other thread about Ep.VII. Now, if they really want to go for it, bring in Spielberg to direct and he in turn could likely convince Harrison Ford to put the vest back on.
opcornThat's what I was thinking as well over in the other thread about Ep.VII. Now, if they really want to go for it, bring in Spielberg to direct and he in turn could likely convince Harrison Ford to put the vest back on.
Oops I didn't get to that thread yet, hehe. Great minds think alike. :lol But yes it is a very compelling idea and would make sense in light of how the first six movies transpired. Plus it makes it easy to find new actors and fit them into roles that are not meager imitations of characters that have already had their day...but rather entirely new characters (at least from a movie point of view...I'm not so familiar with the Expanded Universe).
With Kathleen Kennedy and the return of Howard Rothman to LucasFilm, the idea that they would be amenable to releasing content which has been essentially disowned by George Lucas also seems highly unlikely. There's simply not enough money to be made from this rabbit hole, IMO.
Also worth considering, since as you point out Disney is 100% owner, do they adopt their style of content management or LucasFilm's? One is VERY selective and controlling of what and when films are released for home media, the other is like a drunken sailor on shore leave. But I have always contended that LucasFilm was so aggressive about new releases as it was the only way to fund new projects. They had to go back to the well over and over. Now, they have all new content coming so the cash flow need is alleviated.
Also worth considering, since as you point out Disney is 100% owner, do they adopt their style of content management or LucasFilm's? One is VERY selective and controlling of what and when films are released for home media, the other is like a drunken sailor on shore leave. But I have always contended that LucasFilm was so aggressive about new releases as it was the only way to fund new projects. They had to go back to the well over and over. Now, they have all new content coming so the cash flow need is alleviated.
Timmythekid
Sr Member
"the idea that they would be amenable to releasing content which has been essentially disowned by George Lucas also seems highly unlikely"
You're still thinking BD, Bryan. Even if one were to say that demand is satiated for BD, we're already seeing the rumblings of the next home video format. It'll take years, don't think I'm saying we'll see this happen in the next 18 months, but eventually Disney is faced with a new format, the greatest IP home video has ever seen, and what LFL is calling a master would be equivallent to releasing a DVD resolution product as a prestige-title BD today. The simply fact is that in the next few years Disney NEEDS to do a new scan of Star Wars, and the sooner the better. The o-negs are falling apart and the longer they wait the more intensive the restoration is going to need to be. There's no way around it. The SE doesn't exist in any way that will be meaningful above 1080p. The SE elements don't even exist in a format meaningful above 1080p. The raw scan of the trilogy doesn't exist in a format above 1080p. Disney's got a choice - forgo historically gauranteed profits from the most demanded home video IP of all time (as you seem to think they will), or bite the bullet and restore the films. No other options here. Knowing corporations as I do, I know where I'd put my money.
You're still thinking BD, Bryan. Even if one were to say that demand is satiated for BD, we're already seeing the rumblings of the next home video format. It'll take years, don't think I'm saying we'll see this happen in the next 18 months, but eventually Disney is faced with a new format, the greatest IP home video has ever seen, and what LFL is calling a master would be equivallent to releasing a DVD resolution product as a prestige-title BD today. The simply fact is that in the next few years Disney NEEDS to do a new scan of Star Wars, and the sooner the better. The o-negs are falling apart and the longer they wait the more intensive the restoration is going to need to be. There's no way around it. The SE doesn't exist in any way that will be meaningful above 1080p. The SE elements don't even exist in a format meaningful above 1080p. The raw scan of the trilogy doesn't exist in a format above 1080p. Disney's got a choice - forgo historically gauranteed profits from the most demanded home video IP of all time (as you seem to think they will), or bite the bullet and restore the films. No other options here. Knowing corporations as I do, I know where I'd put my money.
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Betcher wrong
We'll see.
When I say the wrath of Lucas, i am exaggerating the point. But LucasFilm will likely, considering the new management, be very defensive of what they perceive as his wishes for the company. This OT release is, let's face it, niche. Why would Kathleen Kennedy and Howard Rothman even want to go down this road? And Disney is less likely to try and be so cavalier and aggressive with DVD releases when they have brand new content they have 100% control over.And I would buy it, at least the first movie, as that's what I saw in theaters when I was 9. It's the most familiar to me.
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niennumb1
Master Member
Disney makes special niche collections all the time that come at a premium. It's possible they would offer it, but maybe as a limited edition and for a higher cost. I think they are hip to knowing there's a lot of people who would buy it. Disney is definitely not blind to these sorts of things.
