Dark Knight Rises

benhs1898 said:
Then you clearly miss all of the themes that Nolan has brilliantly highlighted in his films.

I believe in your right to an opinion but I do not think some of you have a very objective way of looking at this.
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You can have all the themes in the world in a work of fiction (be it a film, a novel, an album, a TV show, etc). But it's not themes that make a movie/TV show/comic book/album/video game/etc. work. Assuming the director "exploring themes" is what makes a movie good, then by that logic, everything else in a film is completely pointless and the director shouldn't make movies, he should just film himself explaining the themes he wants to talk about at that moment for 90 minutes instead.

When I watch a movie, I watch it objectively. And at the end, after watching the movie, I come to a conclusion, breaking down everything from story, characters, any possible themes if they turn up, cinematography, sound, shots, and so on, and then judge the overall film as a whole just as much as I did in pieces. And to be honest with my opinion, the last three films of Nolan's haven't been good story and character wise, despite the overabundance in production value that he's had in them and the wide variety of talent he's working with.

I thank you for your respecting my right to an opinion. Have a nice day. :)
 
Christopher Nolan isn't perfect.:lol I, for one, never said he ever was. His casting is horrible at least half the time.....Anne Hathaway, Maggie Gyllinhall (sp?), Katie Holmes, Cillian Murphy (Should have been Adrian Brody!), the guy who played Marconi, Eric Roberts........all bad.

And his Batman movies? Lifted from Tim Burton's films almost as blatantly as "Star Trek Nemesis" was lifted from TWOK:

-The scene where Batman takes the damsel in distress to the Batcave via car chase? And leaves her unconscious? From "Batman".

-The scene where the Joker is standing in the road, goading Batman to "hit me!"? "Batman".

-The scene in TDKR where Bruce and Selina Kyle are dancing together? "Returns".

-The Tumbler seperating into a "pod" as an escape vehicle? "Returns".

There are more scenes, but I can't think of them now. All lifted ideas. It's almost like a remake, and not too very original.

But they're still BETTER than Burton's cartoony films........ and the WORSE Screwmaker films.........which I'm old enough to remember when everyone complained about. "MR Mom as Batman" and such. But younger guys think those are the greatest Batman movies ever, and see Keaton as a god, simply because they grew up with him. I grew up with Adam West, and I can tell you he was horrible.

Nolan takes it more seriously and his films are simply better, but not perfect. For that, they would have to be an actual comic book. From the 80s.;)
 
CB2001 said:
You can have all the themes in the world in a work of fiction (be it a film, a novel, an album, a TV show, etc). But it's not themes that make a movie/TV show/comic book/album/video game/etc. work. Assuming the director "exploring themes" is what makes a movie good, then by that logic, everything else in a film is completely pointless and the director shouldn't make movies, he should just film himself explaining the themes he wants to talk about at that moment for 90 minutes instead.

When I watch a movie, I watch it objectively. And at the end, after watching the movie, I come to a conclusion, breaking down everything from story, characters, any possible themes if they turn up, cinematography, sound, shots, and so on, and then judge the overall film as a whole just as much as I did in pieces. And to be honest with my opinion, the last three films of Nolan's haven't been good story and character wise, despite the overabundance in production value that he's had in them and the wide variety of talent he's working with.

I thank you for your respecting my right to an opinion. Have a nice day. :)
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You misread. I did not say that simply having themes made something good, I said that I believe Nolan successfully explored those themes. NOW you can disagree with me.
 
In the other trailer, when Catwoman whispers in his ear, "You're all going to wonder how you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us." That tells me her character is going to be very interesting.
 
I hope so. From the overall Catwoman appearances in the trailers and screen shots, it does seem like she is working with Batman. Oh, and I did not think it possible, but Tom Hardy's voice and mannerisms in the trailers have succeeded in selling Bane to me and have distracted me from how silly I think his respirator looks.

I am really looking forward to seeing Bane and the carnage he causes in Gotham.
 
benhs1898 said:
Then you clearly miss all of the themes that Nolan has brilliantly highlighted in his films...
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That's ridiculous. How could anyone have possibly missed them?


The dialogue was constantly hammering them into your face throughout the movies.



Rodann said:
...But younger guys think those are the greatest Batman movies ever, and see Keaton as a god, simply because they grew up with him. I grew up with Adam West, and I can tell you he was horrible...
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I'm a fairly young buck and re-runs of the 60's show was my first introduction to Batman. I can even remember where I was when I saw the movie first. Hell, I have a DVD copy of it! I believe Adam West is as much of a valid interpretation of Batman as anything else (That's either the uber-nerd in me or nostalgia talking).

That being said, when I'm craving a Batman-flick fix, I usually reach for the Burton movies or Batman Begins. Two different movie series with vastly different approaches to the character, but both as valid interpretations as the next.
 
CB2001 said:
^--QFT. Seriously, only someone who was sleeping during the film would miss them.
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My main point is that the Tim Burton Batman movies are almost entirely style. Nolan's are the first Batman films to really dig into some of the more complex themes.
 
The Burton Batman films (in my opinion) revolutionized how comic books were made into movies. Perfect? No. Some people will complain that it wasn't enough like the comic and others will complain that it was too much. Why can't a new production just be it's own thing?

The Nolan movies have put their own spin on Batman. I don't think anyone disputes that. If it's not for you then its not for you. At least its something new, and even if you dont like it, at least appreciate that A LOT of other people do. No one movie is going to please everyone. I for one am just grateful when a decent movie gets made nowadays. Period. If it doesn't appeal to you why waste so much of your time analyzing and arguing about it?

I don't think I've ever been more excited about a movie coming out. I'll be lucky if another lives up to this excitement again in my lifetime.
 
Anne Hathaway as Catwoman is what I am most looking forward to in this movie. I don't care for Christian Bale at all, in any movie since Equilibrium. The Nolan Batman movies are great because of the supporting cast.

I was only mildly interested in this movie until I heard her say "You're all going to wonder how you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us."

I hear she does an insane amount of fighting, and I've seen her driving the batpod.

Add to that Michael Caine, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman and I dont see how it could not be great.
 
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I was only mildly interested in this movie until I heard her say "You're all going to wonder how you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us."

I was actually torqued off by that line and prepared to hate Selina Kyle . That sounded like something a Social Justicar or a Silver Ponytail or an OWS arsehole would say. Was very prepaired to dislike the character but subsequent footage portrays her more as an ally or possible love interest so
I'm holding off on the HaterAde for now.
 
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Burton's movies are entirely style? Have You watched Batman Returns? More emotional depth between Selina And Bruce in 2 scenes of that movie than anything Nolan has presented to us yet. And mind you I like the Nolan movies, but all the talk about them being closer to the comics and how Batman is move like his comic counterpart is bologna. Bale bats doesn't kill?? Tell it to his brothers in the league of shadows he blew up. Yeah, the Burton films are flawed, and the Nolan films are more "gritty" and "realistic", you know what that means to me? It means 90% of Batman's rogues gallery (which really makes Batman who he is, as a hero is nothing without strong villains) can not exist in this film world. This is why Ra's is not immortal and why we'll never see penquin and riddler, and that's to say nothing of Posion ivy or ManBat. And what about Black Mask? I have no problem with Bane, but to me Black Mask would have fit into this world better. For Everything Nolan has gotten right, he has gotten just as much wrong, and like I said I like Nolan's Bat Films, and I like Burton's as well, I am just sick of all the Nolan hero worship, cause honestly, until someone puts batman on screen, without all the BS armor (he's a friggin ninja for ****** sake) and without all the BS (joker killed Bruce's parents?)No one is gonna get it right
 
*sigh*... and who decides what is "right"? Perhaps you'd like to see a Batman movie made identical page for page to the comics all the way back from the 1930's, and see how good of a movie that makes. Who cares if there's no place for so and so in Nolan's movies? Batman exists in so many mediums, save those characters for the places they fit in and don't look silly. Nolan didn't need to make a universe where super powers exist. He put his own spin on it and it worked for it's purpose.
 
I would like to see a T.V. Series done in the same way as the Adam West version. For now, the Aquabats will have to suffice.
 
And yet Nolan is Producing and helped to write Man of Steel, the hero who originated Super Powers. Yeah I actually would love to see someone do Batman exactly how he is in the comics, I mean it seems to work for Marvel. Spiderman got to the screen pretty much unscathed, Ditto Captain America, Iron Man, Thor...should I go on... I mean you are talking about a movie based on...wait for it....A COMIC BOOK. I don't mind a realistic take, but lets not forget just where this came from. A man dressed as a Bat fighting crime...the very idea by nature is fantastic, and so to make it believeable, let's cover him in heavy ass armor that he can't move in (goes for Burton's films as well). You say just keep the unbelieveable villians in the mediums they fit in.. and how is that is fair to the fans of Batman that are not just the fans that come around every couple years Warner Brothers decides to make another mint off the people who don't spend years supporting the character by buying all the **** they crank out? Don't they deserve to see the characters they love on the big screen as well? Nolan is not the GOD of Batman. And even though I have no problems with the movies he has made, DESPITE their flaws, I am glad this is his last. That is meant as no disrespect to Bale, Ledger, Freeman (who I had the pleasure of meeting after Batman Begins, and is an awesome person) Caine, or any of the talent that brought this to life. But lets not over glorify what Nolan did. Sure, he did breath new life into a franchise that was dead, and I respect him for that, but for people to say that he made the definitive film version of batman, is just short sighted and arrogant. I think we have yet to see the definitive version of the Dark Knight in film.
 
And Hecubus, I am not attacking you personally, You have every right to like and be excited by RISES, I am as well, and I am also thankful that we are getting good films about my favorite character, I just don't think they are the be all, end all, of Batman in film. IMO.
 
What Selina and Bruce have is not depth. It's very easy to write just write emotion or love. It appears that this relationship between Batman and Catwoman will be a little more complex. Maybe not, we don't know yet.

Basically your other point is that Nolan's films are not that great because he hasn't and won't use every other villain. That just doesn't make sense.

When you say you want Batman exactly how he is in "the comics" which ones are you talking about? Are you talking about Detective Comics? Miller's take? Loeb and Sale's take? There is no one Batman so that is not a point. In fact, Nolan's films take heavily from several specific stories. Are they exact? No. Should they be? Absolutely not.

Really there can be no definitive film adaptation of a character that has been re-imagined so many times throughout comic history. Just like the comics the films are open to endless interpretations.
 
and yet in every iteration, every interpretation of the comics, no matter who is writing them, ALL of Batman's rogues gallery Do exist. And yes, no matter who is writing him, there is only ONE Batman, and in every generation, every incarnation, in every comic, All of the rogues are there, in the order they were created, of coures.
 
I'd love to see Miller's Dark Knight of the mid-eighties. I even lliked the continuation of a few years ago. The scene where Bat's gets a giant woody when Hawkman's kid crashes through the window to introduce Lex's face to the teeth on his mace will always be a highlight.
 
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