colorsuits.com stealling designs

[crabra comander]

opcorn So much easier just to have all these quotes saved in a word document...:lol

I honestly feel like the ones who try to offer their take on it are just shady or ignorant to the one hard fact: My work, my credit, MINE.

http://www.therpf.com/f24/colorsuits-com-stealling-designs-192138/index3.html

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Soooooo, sorry to be a Buzz Kill but it's all part of the game.

I don't know what ****ed up game you're playing. Anyways I never know who's a sock puppet and who's legit.

 

[Pyro]

Zentai-zentai.com has a gallery of custom-ordered suits, and the first two in the gallery are some really good looking costumes that I'm assuming are made from orhadar's or another user's prints. I'm not too sure, but I commented on the Spider-Man one, and it seems like people can still order them. There's also a Man of Steel costume, a Miles Morales costume and a shaded black Spidey costume for sale that look a little too good to be made by these guys. Thought y'all should know.

 

[Gphalen]

"Don't buy from them! They lied about item location - not in US, in Singapore!!" is the one comment from the buyers who are now in remorse from buying a cheap Asian knock off of someone else`s work. Saddly this has been the way things are since go! North America continues to do business with asia knowing they steal peoples property and intellectual rights make very cheap versions and sell them!, As far back as I can remember you have always been able to buy real cheaply made knock offs from asia. Taiwan China Japan Singapore have always been the culprits. Even knowing they are using LED based paints in childrens toys the Governments of North America have yet to impose a trade imbargo stopping any retail shipments out of these locations.

 

[Ray48]

http://www.therpf.com/f24/colorsuits-com-stealling-designs-192138/index3.html

I know exactly what I'm saying. Marvel/Disney charge license fees for the use, manufacture and sale of their products. When you infringe on their copyright, you are in fact STEALING FROM THEM! When the shoe is on the other foot it hurts. You are hurting the stock holders of those companies. I know in an era of ripping "free" tunes, movies etc.. You think it is okay to do that. You have some intangible right to take liberties you technically do not have. I don't care what you do........just don't whine when they do it to you. Yes, I too technically violate copyright when I duplicate a prop...I just don't sell copies of someone elses work (Marvel) and then complain "I was robbed". There is no honor among thieves......point made.

 

[Lunaman]

I know exactly what I'm saying. Marvel/Disney charge license fees for the use, manufacture and sale of their products. When you infringe on their copyright, you are in fact STEALING FROM THEM! When the shoe is on the other foot it hurts. You are hurting the stock holders of those companies. I know in an era of ripping "free" tunes, movies etc.. You think it is okay to do that. You have some intangible right to take liberties you technically do not have. I don't care what you do........just don't whine when they do it to you. Yes, I too technically violate copyright when I duplicate a prop...I just don't sell copies of someone elses work (Marvel) and then complain "I was robbed". There is no honor among thieves......point made.

This has already been discussed, to death; you are welcome to feel that way but it's not the purpose of the thread. We all know that Marvel can put the kibosh on anyone making art using their characters, and we also know that Orhadar is offering a unique piece of art and product that Marvel does not sell, and that Marvel (and Disney, and Warner Brothers, and DC, etc) have a tacit understanding with costumers because of the brand enthusiasm that they display at conventions and events. These things are not cut-and-dried, even though, yes, the rights holders always have the ultimate say.
That doesn't make it any less scummy for people to take Orhadar's hard work, claim it as their own work, reproduce it shoddily, and sell it for their own profit. Please do not try to throw moral relativism hand-waving at me in this context.

Seriously, if you don't understand why the conduct of colorsuits and zentai-zentai is bad for the prop and costume-making community, and much worse than Orhadar making elaborate and beautiful costume patterns, then go to a different thread. You're basically condoning the thought process behind recasters.
How on earth can you be all up in arms about ebay jerks recasting Shawn & Joe's Lawgiver and offering an inferior product for sale in this thread, yet not understand and extend the same feelings to the issue here of people 'recasting' Orhadar's print files and selling an inferior product through colorsuits, ebay, and zentai-zentai.com?
This is LITERALLY the same issue. Yet you didn't get on Shawn & Joe's case for 'stealing' from Reliance Entertainment and IPC Comics by selling their Lawgiver kit. No, you got all riled up about taking down the fraudulent ebay listings and demanding that the recasters "apologize, send [back] the mold, destroy all copies they have for sale, and pull all solicitations" for the product.
Is this difference in opinion because you dress up as Judge Dredd and we dress up as Spider-Man? Get a clue, dude.

 

[sp1derman]

This sounds really stupid but has aanyone thought of emailing colorsuits pretending to be marveland claiming they have 24 hours to remove all there marvel merchandise before they hear from their lawyers? Stupid idea I know but is it worth a shot? Also why report to marvel thats its a stolen print why not just report it as they are makin profit from their characters knowoneon here makes asmuch profit of a pattern I can't see marvel waisting there time on people who make 100 or 2 a day off of a pattern they make that in 5 minutes but a company making 800 per sale is more of a threat also this wouldn't happen if marvel made decent cotumes lol

 

[spidyfan]

thas could work just create a new email and send something like

Dear colorsuit

we have been informed by several individuals that you have been stealing there spider-man designs for use in your own products, as these people were in no violation of the copyrighting laws placed no further action was taken. But as your very aware you are, if these designs do not come down within the next 24 we will have no choice but to take this to our lawyers and let them deal with this.

you haved been warned.

marveland


a little crude but you get the picture.

 

[tanman96]

^^^ Lol yes please

 

[TheNickFox]

Ray48, you clearly have no clue how much work goes into these digital patterns. While they are BASED on established designs, there are no shortcuts we can take. We don't just click "download pattern" from Marvel and send it to a printer. I've spent HUNDREDS of hours on a pattern before. It's skilled, technical work and no one has the right to use it without the expressed consent of the creator, which is the person who spent time on it, not Marvel...who does not even have a similar product in the marketplace.

There is a reason I was the first major pattern-maker to break the silence on the techniques behind how to make these patterns; because I knew that I could never make all the patterns that people wanted due to the time involved. So I put the tools out there for creative, enthusiastic folks like Orhador to run wild and make the costume patterns THEY wanted, so long as they were willing to invest the enormous amount of time and effort it takes to make one of these.

Anyone who skips that step by using someone else's pattern without permission steals because they have stolen time from the creator.

-Nick

 

[StaggzCosplay]

This sounds really stupid but has aanyone thought of emailing colorsuits pretending to be marveland claiming they have 24 hours to remove all there marvel merchandise before they hear from their lawyers? Stupid idea I know but is it worth a shot? Also why report to marvel thats its a stolen print why not just report it as they are makin profit from their characters knowoneon here makes asmuch profit of a pattern I can't see marvel waisting there time on people who make 100 or 2 a day off of a pattern they make that in 5 minutes but a company making 800 per sale is more of a threat also this wouldn't happen if marvel made decent cotumes lol

thas could work just create a new email and send something like

Dear colorsuit

we have been informed by several individuals that you have been stealing there spider-man designs for use in your own products, as these people were in no violation of the copyrighting laws placed no further action was taken. But as your very aware you are, if these designs do not come down within the next 24 we will have no choice but to take this to our lawyers and let them deal with this.

you haved been warned.

marveland


a little crude but you get the picture.

^^^ Lol yes please

If you guys really want, I could do that for y'all.... it seems like it would be a good idea.

 

[Wallcrawler248]

Ray48, you clearly have no clue how much work goes into these digital patterns. While they are BASED on established designs, there are no shortcuts we can take. We don't just click "download pattern" from Marvel and send it to a printer. I've spent HUNDREDS of hours on a pattern before. It's skilled, technical work and no one has the right to use it without the expressed consent of the creator, which is the person who spent time on it, not Marvel...who does not even have a similar product in the marketplace.

There is a reason I was the first major pattern-maker to break the silence on the techniques behind how to make these patterns; because I knew that I could never make all the patterns that people wanted due to the time involved. So I put the tools out there for creative, enthusiastic folks like Orhador to run wild and make the costume patterns THEY wanted, so long as they were willing to invest the enormous amount of time and effort it takes to make one of these.

Anyone who skips that step by using someone else's pattern without permission steals because they have stolen time from the creator.

-Nick

I have neither the talent nor time to create these patterns, but I'm glad people like Nick & Orhadar do and continue to do so. That being said I find it very insensitive to downplay the plight of ANYONE who has their creative property expoited, be it Spider-man, Batman, or Judge Dread. I've seen the suit Marvel puts out for the actors on their mascot list and its no where NEAR the quality of most of the suits on these boards. As I understand even if a actor on their list has a better looking suit than what Marvel provides they are prohibited from wearing it....so what's a fanboy to do but make his own. And as we ohhh and ahhh over these creations the good people at Zentai whatever and Colorsuits are scheming to lower the quality and mass produce on the backs of the artists who truly love the characters. I will NEVER visit ANY site that re-casts others works....NUFF SAID.

 

[Dedsilence]

I know exactly what I'm saying. Marvel/Disney charge license fees for the use, manufacture and sale of their products. When you infringe on their copyright, you are in fact STEALING FROM THEM! When the shoe is on the other foot it hurts. You are hurting the stock holders of those companies. I know in an era of ripping "free" tunes, movies etc.. You think it is okay to do that. You have some intangible right to take liberties you technically do not have. I don't care what you do........just don't whine when they do it to you. Yes, I too technically violate copyright when I duplicate a prop...I just don't sell copies of someone else’s work (Marvel) and then complain "I was robbed". There is no honor among thieves......point made.

I think everyone is in agreement that Marvel owns the intellectual property. This thread is addressing the issue of skills/work being stolen and passed off as someone else.
I believe prop/replica commissions are along the same lines as artists, such as tattoo artists. Artists take liberties to tattoo or draw copyrighted materials because people are paying for their skills and services, not the material or content. I think it’s ridiculous that you think that no one shouldn’t complain or try to take action when there is fraud, plagiarism or thief from a product or service just because someone does not own the exclusive rights.

 

[Wes R]

Ray48 sure seems to be supporting them ripping off the work of members on here using the usual excuse used by recasters.

 

[pengbuzz]

I know exactly what I'm saying. Marvel/Disney charge license fees for the use, manufacture and sale of their products. When you infringe on their copyright, you are in fact STEALING FROM THEM! When the shoe is on the other foot it hurts. You are hurting the stock holders of those companies. I know in an era of ripping "free" tunes, movies etc.. You think it is okay to do that. You have some intangible right to take liberties you technically do not have. I don't care what you do........just don't whine when they do it to you. Yes, I too technically violate copyright when I duplicate a prop...I just don't sell copies of someone elses work (Marvel) and then complain "I was robbed". There is no honor among thieves......point made.

Unbelieveable... *rolleyes*

I know you most likely won't listen, but here goes anyways:


The complaint is not the character of Spiderman having been stolen from Orhadar (which we all agree isn't his nor ours but Marvel/Disney's), but that the work he put into creating a digital file of the suit that the character wears. Orhadar is not claiming to have created the character nor the design for the suit; he worked to create a replica of it, and the work he built was taken by Colorsuits without his permission.


What was stolen from him was not the suit concept nor the character, but time and effort he used to create the digital file of it, as TheNickFox has already said.


To that end: to defend Colorsuits or any other recaster (model, costume or otherwise) by saying "you stole it from Marvel/DC/Disney/whomever" is to deny the effort put into designing, making masters, digital work, concepts, materials and research. The propmnakers and GK'ers here are NOT stealing the ideas for their own, but rather working on them and bringing them to life to be enjoyed and celebrated. Recasters, on the other hand, take others' work for themselves and seek to make a fast buck on it using shoddy materials, poor workmanship and deceitful advertisement practices, along with shady business practices and outright theft, lying and trickery.


THAT is the difference.


So with that said, Ray48: if you are going to defend recasters as simply "doing what we do", you're utterly wrong. Recasters do NOT do the initial work to create or recreate a piece: they simply take what someone else made, make a mold of it, and sell it repeatedly. They don't do any initial work to research, refine, check materials or anything else. They simply make a profit off of someone else's labor. That is why they STINK, that is why we hate them, and that is why neither I, nor anyone else will EVER knowingly buy from one....


...and I SURELY as all blazes will NOT try to excuse them like you have.


(To Art and the mod team: my apologies, but many here work diligently and with great love to create props. I consider myself in excellent company, and am honored to be here with these folks. I stand for and with my fellow members here.)

 

[Ray48]

You obviously jumped to an end conclusion without paying any attention to the main theme. I understand the work that went into his costume. I understand that he has a right to feel deprived of his efforts and hard work. I simply feel that is is disingenuous to overlook that others, working for Marvel and now Disney, also have hard work and time invested in creating and merchandising their product (Spiderman) and all the whining and commiserating about this "theft" doesn't change the law or the legal copyright that unlicensed purveyors violate by making these contraband suits. I'm not judging him for making them and selling them (if you want a real education on this....try sending Disney a letter telling them you are making and selling anything based on their copyrights...see how long it takes for their attorneys to answer you.) I'm simply pointing out that it is not consistent to overlook that the product being made is contraband from it's inception. As I said, if you think I'm wrong, contact Disney and see what their response is. U.S. Customs and the F.B.I. spend untold resources interdicting counterfeit, knock off products made abroad to aid the legitimate manufacturers in prosecution. That said this forum is small potatoes, but it does not mean it carries any special immunity from copyright laws. If you are selling an item or prop that you originated ( NOT LIKE SPIDERMAN, Marvel originated that character and has the SOLE right to reproduce it in any form.) you then have a right to expect that no one will infringe that right. Pirating or recasting has always gone with the territory of unlicensed prop making and always will. Privately, as the RPF does here, there are actions against known "sock puppets" that can be taken. In a public legal forum you are on thin ice since you are also breaking laws designed to protect the originator of the prop and you would be viewed as just another criminal. Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but such is life in the "bootleg prop" world. Attempting to bash my comments changes nothing. It is what it Is By the way, I'm not defending recasters or anyone else. I've never recasted anyone's work and never would. I just think you are kidding yourself to think that, if you sell something you don't have a license to make, and it is well done, it won't eventually be pirated. It is the cycle of life in the prop world. It is also why I don't make a business of doing reproduction props for sale. Yeah, it sucks to have your work taken in such a sleazy way. The business world is rife with those examples. There are plenty of companies that originate their product and still have it pirated. They have legal recourse. Pity, but when you use others copyrights to enrich yourself, by my logic, there is little recourse for what is to be expected. You are right, Pengbuzz, the recasters didn't do the original work, they capitalized on it.....as did the member who capitalized on the years of work done to pave the way by Marvel. Did he design the suit? Did he conceptualize the character of Spiderman? Did he spend millions marketing the character and making popular movies? By what right did he create an underground business selling someone elses property? Never mind the answer to these , hopefully thought provoking, but rhetorical questions. I already know the answers. And no, I'm not in anyone's corner here. I despise recasters like the cockroaches they are. I'm just a realist, they will never go away as long as they are fed. Your sweet costume files and money are their food. No,they are not worried about your hard work any more than you lose sleep violating copyright laws. I'm done wasting time on this.

 

[Ray48]

I think everyone is in agreement that Marvel owns the intellectual property. This thread is addressing the issue of skills/work being stolen and passed off as someone else.
I believe prop/replica commissions are along the same lines as artists, such as tattoo artists. Artists take liberties to tattoo or draw copyrighted materials because people are paying for their skills and services, not the material or content. I think it’s ridiculous that you think that no one shouldn’t complain or try to take action when there is fraud, plagiarism or thief from a product or service just because someone does not own the exclusive rights.

He can take whatever action he likes. As long as he remembers he did the "stealing" first. The phrase "does not own the exclusive rights" implys that he somehow has some or a share of the rights. He , in fact, has NO rights to the characters likeness. So, it is really the same thing, unless you think the law exempts certain individuals. No, he can fight for whatever he wants....and, I'm sure that if Disney's lawyers ever found out, they would be writing letters to both parties. I've known them to do it for less. By the way, Disney is a much bigger company than Marvel and I've known them to be far more vigorous in defending their copyrights......expect the unexpected. I don't make reproduction movie props for anyone but myself. I don't sell them to anyone else. They don't usually spend time tracking down costume wearers at conventions, but, in theory, they could. Look, I'm no goody two shoes, but it seems to me, if you are producing a good product, costume or prop, you kind of have to see this coming. There will always be unscrupulous entities who don't care how much work you put into something as long as they can make it cheaper at your expense. I buy props from forum members and MAKE NO JUDGEMENT ABOUT THEIR LACK OF LICENSE. That is their issue as far as I'm concerned. I also won't ever buy a known recast item. I just think a little perspective is in order when "stop thief" is hollared.

 

[Ray48]

Ray48 sure seems to be supporting them ripping off the work of members on here using the usual excuse used by recasters.

It is almost funny how so many deep thinkers can read things into your comments that are so far from accurate.

 

[DeathFromADesk]

My 2 cents, because I have nothing better to do...

I think part of the issue is that you had a very strong opinion concerning recasting and stealing others work in one thread (As Lunaman pointed out)

How on earth can you be all up in arms about ebay jerks recasting Shawn & Joe's Lawgiver and offering an inferior product for sale in this thread, yet not understand and extend the same feelings to the issue here of people 'recasting' Orhadar's print files and selling an inferior product through colorsuits, ebay, and zentai-zentai.com?
This is LITERALLY the same issue. Yet you didn't get on Shawn & Joe's case for 'stealing' from Reliance Entertainment and IPC Comics by selling their Lawgiver kit. No, you got all riled up about taking down the fraudulent ebay listings and demanding that the recasters "apologize, send [back] the mold, destroy all copies they have for sale, and pull all solicitations" for the product.

And have, what appears to be, a different opinion on this thread...

You think it is okay to do that. You have some intangible right to take liberties you technically do not have. I don't care what you do........just don't whine when they do it to you.

There is no honor among thieves......point made.

From my short time on these forums I get that there are some differences of opinion on recasting and property rights and what have you. I do think that these guys have a right to be upset. It looks like you do too....

Somtimes.

 

[Mektar]

I'm done wasting time on this.

clearly not

 

[Wes R]

I'm done wasting time on this.

It wasn't a total waste of time, a lot of folks know who not to sell anything to now.