Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

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greeble_gremlin

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Regarding my earlier post about taking measurements.

It has been explained to me that in the course of restoring and developing Jesse's Studio Scale Viper kit; --in many places were the greeble detail was to "soft"(deteriorated) the original styrene kit parts were used to replace these deteriorated areas. Thus providing superior "crisp" details for casting.

However , what this means is there is an inconsistency, albeit very slight,
between the "generational shrinkage" of overall body parts and that of the refurbished details.
This is further compounded by the fact that apparently the the shrinkage of the casting materials used by the ILM/Apogee model makers did not shrink uniformly. Rather; the amount of shrinkage varied according to the mass.
These 2 things would make it impossible to arrive at an accurate calculation/estimate of the distortions.
I apologize if my over-zealousness has mis-lead anyone. I'm afraid there would not be too much to gain, taking such measurements
This is probably not anything "new" to those experienced Studio Scale modelers out there.-I'm still learning
Also, I am not maligning Jess'e kit at all... It is still and excellent Kit and, in my opinion still the best Studio Scale Viper kit available.
 

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Andrew C.

Well-Known Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

There's no apology necessary, you have shared with us your experience and pictures and have helped a great deal - and I think that everything shared in these threads represents our personal views and experiences. It is up to the reader whether he/she wants to agree with another person's post, or not.

Nothing we write is set in stone, my friend! :cool:thumbsup
 

Eagle-1

Well-Known Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

These 2 things would make it impossible to arrive at an accurate calculation/estimate of the distortions.
I would say this though GG. If you go to the trouble and we use the actual kit parts to make our own Viper parts, I can't really imagine it being very far off from the original. Certainly closer than anything else we could hope for.

Rob.
 

Jestefarean

Sr Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Regarding my earlier post about taking measurements.

It has been explained to me that in the course of restoring and developing Jesse's Studio Scale Viper kit; --in many places were the greeble detail was to "soft"(deteriorated) the original styrene kit parts were used to replace these deteriorated areas. Thus providing superior "crisp" details for casting.

However , what this means is there is an inconsistency, albeit very slight,
between the "generational shrinkage" of overall body parts and that of the refurbished details.
This is further compounded by the fact that apparently the the shrinkage of the casting materials used by the ILM/Apogee model makers did not shrink uniformly. Rather; the amount of shrinkage varied according to the mass.
These 2 things would make it impossible to arrive at an accurate calculation/estimate of the distortions.
I apologize if my over-zealousness has mis-lead anyone. I'm afraid there would not be too much to gain, taking such measurements
This is probably not anything "new" to those experienced Studio Scale modelers out there.-I'm still learning
Also, I am not maligning Jess'e kit at all... It is still and excellent Kit and, in my opinion still the best Studio Scale Viper kit available.
This is all correct and accurate. It was discussed on this board (as I recall) years ago when I got the masters. The details were far to soft and long gone and needed to be redone, but at the same time there was no way to do them perfectly with the whole ship being shrunk. In the end, the "best effort" I made was to make castings of the original parts and shrink them myself. That is to say I cast them a couple times over to shrink them some small amount so that in the end they seemed to "fit" It was an inexact science at best, and I wouldn't claim it's perfect. I have, however compared the size difference to some original bits I got from folks from Icons and from other sources (I can't divulge...sorry) and it's close. Not 100%...but reasonably close. If the ship was ever redone to scale it could be perfected fairly easily.

Regarding fixing the thing...well, I'm talking to a couple folks. I have all the kit pieces needed to build her...and the kit pieces for the hero, and the kit pieces for the landing gear version, plus an original Icons casting, and a more direct lineage casting (much closer to the original scale)...but I dont have the time. If some others want to pick up the pieces (literally) and finish a new Viper I'm on board. I do have to be very careful though...a lot of the information I have was shared with me either as a favor, or under the request that I don't post the information. I dont want to break that confidence or betray anyone, so I'm doing my best to help and at the same time not cause any issues. Currently Mike S and some others are chatting about it. If they did it would it be worth their time?
 

imaginager

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Currently Mike S and some others are chatting about it. If they did it would it be worth their time?
YES!

Mike just released a newer and, at least to my eye, much more accurate version of the TOS Raider. This is the model I was waiting for. If the Viper got the same treatment, I'd be all over it.

It absolutely needs to happen! :D

Allan
 

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Eagle-1

Well-Known Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Thank you Mr. Jesse, of course every little bit helps. I'm sure most of us here understand about giving your word!

A man named Gary, who owns most of the original filming miniatures has given me permission to post these here for us.





These oughta help a little huh?

Rob.
 
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Clerval

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Those'll be excellent for painting info, but I don't think much new is seen for overall detail or new info. Still, really damn nice of him to allow this to be posted. I don't suppose there's an image of the interiors of the intakes... ???

Please pass thanks along to Gary....

Also, quick question, has anyone come across a series of decent images that detail the attachment point/plug covers on these? I've seen a few and am trying to determine if they are a cool enough detail to reproduce, but the angles are always a bit off to make much out.
 
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Eagle-1

Well-Known Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Yes sir, I'll let him know. I've thanked him already and told him they would certainly be appreciated, but I will let him know.

I think they'll be good for more than just painting though. That's the best picture of the clips, that have been bugging me, around the intakes I've personally seen. It also helps me with my F4 intake theory. I can SEE a thin piece of styrene stuck just between the clips and the intakes.

I can ask him about the intakes and I've thought about asking him for a close-up of the area behind the lasers we've been looking at.

I don't want to be a nuisance though.....:unsure

I hope y'all understand?

Rob.
 

greeble_gremlin

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

I for one, am really happy to see so much interest on this topic.

This thread at one point seemed to have gotten a bit "stale" ...

Now there's so many new posts and a lot of cool information, some new discoveries (for some of us) and some "not so new"...

All in all it's good to see.
 

Eagle-1

Well-Known Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Ok boys,

I've found the T-34/76's.

I've got three different kinds.

The Aurora/ESCI
The ESCI/ERTL
The MATCHBOX

It looks more like the Aurora/ESCI than any of the others to me. I'll get some scans on here ASAP.

While I was at it, I grabbed the F4J too.

I'll scan that and get it on here too.

Rob.
 

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David Moeller

Active Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Well, I think I have finally gone too far...

That I what I thought when I received the Lindberg Blue Devil Destroyer, the box is like four feet long!!!! And Rob, I too got one of the ESCI T34/76, and if you want to reproduce the "soft mushy" details, use the flexible treads. :lol I saw these and started laughing. I compared this kit to the Italeri and the moldings appear to be cleaner. Parts are from the same tooling, but parts from the Italeria have a slight texture on them, not that this would matter much with a blast of primer and paint, but FYI.

As to answer Jesse's question on "would it be worth their time?" I would say that is a difficult question to answer, the short version would be, if it meant selling a lot of kits, probability not. People have been buying yours and others kits for a while and there may not be a huge demand for it. For others, who may have missed out on your earlier release, may be interested. I know that it is frustrating to have a kit available and have money committed elsewhere only to know that the kit will only be available for a limited basis. If the kit was produced to be sold over time, then it may be considered "worth doing." Let me state for the record that this is all my opinion and others may disagree.

I myself was trying to find an original release of your kit, but nobody wanted to give them up! (this speaks well to the value of the kit) so I am doing what I can, and upon finding the actual kit parts, it makes sense to try and produce a version that is close to the original size.

Did anyone else notice in the photos the four round parts on the back view photo below the rear detail plate? These are located right above the "T" track; new parts to be discovered? Anybody have any ideas for what they might be? I recall that there are some small parts like this in one of the rail guns, I'll take a look and report back what I find!

Dave
 

Andrew C.

Well-Known Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

These oughta help a little huh?
Yes, they do! Absolutely every picture and every angle helps!
I have been unable to get a clear pic of the four small round parts that are missing on the studio scale resin model kits. So far have been able to find only two small fuzzy ones that were so bad I couldn't even tell if they were round. FINALLY a clear view on these.

Thank you for sharing, Rob & Gary! I, for one, am very happy for every single jpeg I haven't seen. :cool:thumbsup

Andrew
 

Eagle-1

Well-Known Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

David,

If you've got the flexible track kit, you may have the Aurora/ESCI. The ESCI/ERTL has those track sections as hard plastic, but they look a little off.

First thing I'm gonna do when I get home today is do some scannin'! I didn't find the dern things till 12:30 AM and had to get up at 3:45, so I just put 'em next to the scanner for first thing this evening. :thumbsup

All in the line of duty, I say!

Andrew, at least one of those, the more rounded one, looks sorta like a search light with the mount still attached. It may even be in one of the T-34 kits. We'll know soon enough.

Yes sir, I've already Thanked Mr. Gary and haven't got up the nerve yet to go ask for the others that were requested. I will though. All he can say is no.

God knows......I've heard that before! :unsure

One thing on the F4J Revell Phantom, even though no one has asked, The newer, cheaper version of the old, expensive kit is identical.

Rob.
 
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Andrew C.

Well-Known Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Did anyone else notice in the photos the four round parts on the back view photo below the rear detail plate?
Dave, looks like you posted while I was still fiddling around with the arrows in photoshop. Yeah, have been brooding over these too, but the pictures sofar have been too dismal to get a good look at them. Here's one that has not been much help:
 

Eagle-1

Well-Known Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

No, that's not good for much as far as detail, but it will certainly help you align all the wings properly! The indent that mine had originally did not line up with that picture exactly, so I have adjusted my wing alignment to match that picture blown up to Viper kit size. I honestly think it looks better too. Could just be me though.

That's the one I used just for that purpose. It also lets you see that there is something tucked away inside those engine cans. I may be just an illusion, as has been stated, but there is something there to me. I've used that to come up with a little something to see inside my engines.

Rob.
 

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greeble_gremlin

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

hey Eagle-1,

Thanks for going to all that trouble.
I'd of never thought there would be so much variation in the details on those tank treads as the Kit releases passed from one company to another.
 
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Andrew C.

Well-Known Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

No, that's not good for much as far as detail, but it will certainly help you align all the wings properly!...
... It also lets you see that there is something tucked away inside those engine cans. I may be just an illusion, as has been stated, but there is something there to me.
Rob.
Yeah, it's good a picture for other reasons.
David,
If you've got the flexible track kit, you may have the Aurora/ESCI. The ESCI/ERTL has those track sections as hard plastic, but they look a little off.
I've noticed that, too. They hard plastic tracks are close - but they're not the right ones, IMO.
First thing I'm gonna do when I get home today is do some scannin'!
Yay! :) Haven't seen those yet and wonder what they look like. :confused

One thing about Jesse's Viper - he sure did a nice job restoring the detail! Have a look:
 

David Moeller

Active Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Andrew, great photo, I agree with you about the quality of the kit.:thumbsup

I was looking through some kits and trying to find that "Y" piece. If you split that part and say it is from two kits, then I have a possible part for the back half, look on the 88mm flack 36/37 on the wheel-well part, there is a cross piece that is flat on the bottom and has the ring around the end. I believe I can see the same seam on the viper part. The shape of it would make it easier to glue and to mold. What do you think? Am I trying to hard? :confused

Dave
 

greeble_gremlin

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

Sounds intriguing...

Can you post a cropped close-up of the sprue tree of the part(s) in question
 

RKW

Sr Member
Re: Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

With regards the "clips" is it not possible that these were actually one piece cut up into smaller pieces? Similar to the ribbed stuff wrapped around the engine cans.
 

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