Captain America: Civil War (Post-release)

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

but, also wasn't all the serum that was left used to make Cap?

It's been a while since i've seen one... but I was under the impression that it was a limited order type thing.

An early version was used on Johann Schmidt and turned him into the Red Skull. Erskine perfected it, possibly with Howard Stark's help, and used it in conjunction with whatever Vita-Rays are on Steve Rogers. Erskine was killed, but enough samples of Rogers' blood were taken we presume Stark was eventually able to recreate the Serum (or something very like), which HYDRA took, and killed Stark, taking the secret with him. Zola never knew the whole thing, so he couldn't fill in the gaps, and those other five Soviet Super-Soldiers are it. P.S. We are still unclear on what Zola might have done to Bucky, both before Steve rescued him and after he fell from the train.

Anyway, after Howard Stark was killed, Bruce Banner was trying to recreate the Serum for General Ross. I assume he tried gamma radiation because no one surviving knew what Vita-Rays were. We know how that went.

So there's been a lot of Super-Soldier-y stuff done to folks, but yeah -- Steve is the only one exactly like Steve (even if the Soviet ones had the Serum right and the process was perfect, they were nasty people who became uncontrollably horriffic -- pretty much the antitheses to Steve).

--Jonah

 

[TKRalph]

Im confused. How come Vision and War Machine weren't with the team in Lagos?! Vision could have taken care of Crossbones by himself...

Also....Did The Joint Counter Terrorism Center just replace S.H.I.E.L.D. in terms of working with The Avengers and saving the world?!

 

[Father]

yep, as I recall.. but, also wasn't all the serum that was left used to make Cap?
It's been a while since i've seen one... but I was under the impression that it was a limited order type thing.

The super soldier formula is something different groups are always trying to replicate, to various degrees of success. they can never get it perfect though. I'd imagine Howard's 5 samples were his latest test batch.

An early version was used on Johann Schmidt and turned him into the Red Skull. Erskine perfected it, possibly with Howard Stark's help, and used it in conjunction with whatever Vita-Rays are on Steve Rogers. Erskine was killed, but enough samples of Rogers' blood were taken we presume Stark was eventually able to recreate the Serum (or something very like), which HYDRA took, and killed Stark, taking the secret with him. Zola never knew the whole thing, so he couldn't fill in the gaps, and those other five Soviet Super-Soldiers are it. P.S. We are still unclear on what Zola might have done to Bucky, both before Steve rescued him and after he fell from the train.

Anyway, after Howard Stark was killed, Bruce Banner was trying to recreate the Serum for General Ross. I assume he tried gamma radiation because no one surviving knew what Vita-Rays were. We know how that went. --Jonah

That's what threw me too... the serum that Bucky got from Stark after killing him, the mainlined into the Soviet soldiers. It didn't look like they irradiated them like they did with Cap.

Did they ever say when Bucky got his does of super soldier juice, because he's clearly enhanced. Not just his arm.

I'm confused. How come Vision and War Machine weren't with the team in Lagos?! Vision could have taken care of Crossbones by himself...
Also....Did The Joint Counter Terrorism Center just replace S.H.I.E.L.D. in terms of working with The Avengers and saving the world?!

Good question. I wonder if that'll be in some cut scenes. Maybe they were off on another mission.

Did anyone get the impression that Ross orchestrated the whole meeting with the woman from the State Department, and it's all been a ruse for Ross to get Cap so he could try to replicate the Super Soldier serum? Either choice Cap makes, he would control him. As a "UN" Agent, he could put him in a lab for "tests" and get blood samples. As a prisoner.. he could pretty much dissect him if he wanted to. Half of the Avengers aren't even "technically" enhanced. Hawkeye, Widow are regular people with mad skills. They shouldn't even be held to the same registration requirements. Wilson is a dude with a jet/wing pack and Stark, Rhodes, and Lang are just dudes with suits... all equipment that, arguably, anyone could learn to use. Rogers, Vision, and Wanda, and Hulk are truly enhanced or superpowered.

What's cool about the argument for registration is what Cap says. " What if this panel sends us somewhere we don't think we should go? What if there's somewhere we need to go and they don't let us?" As a soldier, he should be kind of used to that. People in the U.S. Armed Forces don't decide where they go fight. They're told to go. And even when they're there they are so micromanaged and mired by politics and rules of engagement that their ability to function as "soldiers" is seriously hindered. As much as I'm on Caps side of the argument, does the fact that the Avengers have special abilities make them above the same rules that the military is held to? As UN agents would the Avengers be leaned on more heavily than regular UN Peacekeeping Forces in order to get results faster? Or used less because the collateral damage tends to be exponentially higher whenever they get involved? Or would they only be called in when the problem involved enhanced adversaries?

 

[third3ye]

Re: Captain America: Civil War

Interview with costume designer:
http://tyrannyofstyle.com/costume-design-captain-america-civil-war

And yes there was a practical suit built for Spidey, so that answers that question.

 

[TJackFx]

Re: Captain America: Civil War

Interview with costume designer:
http://tyrannyofstyle.com/costume-design-captain-america-civil-war

And yes there was a practical suit built for Spidey, so that answers that question.

The head of ILM said that every single shot of spidey's suit in the movie is 100% CGI. Same with Black Panther - they actually reduced the size of his head to make his body appear larger.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/12/11...-man-interview

I know they made suits for the actors to wear, but he makes it sound like they CGI'd over them in the final production so what you see on film may not be the actual suit/fabric the actor was wearing.

 

[dascoyne]

Civil War. The film that convinced me to check out Community - starting with the season 2 paintball episode.

 

[maffhewdc]

Civil War. The film that convinced me to check out Community - starting with the season 2 paintball episode.

Watching the show from the first episode makes it all much better. The second half of season 3 and the entirety of season 4 was just terrible

 

[Goldhawk]

So how many people got the reference...
Sorry couldn't resist.
When Bucky and Widow are fighting, after he's been brainwashed again she says "you could recognize me."
Did anyone else get the feeling that she was referring to the fact that he trained her back in Russia in the comics?
Also, any ideas as to why Widow's shock/bite thing didn't work on crossbones? That one has me confused.

 

[astroboy]

I never understood how is bucky could "remember them all",

How he it took so long to remember steve I the winter soldier?

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Jaitea]

I think the crimes he had done weren't suppressed,....but the good man was

J

 

[maffhewdc]

I think during the time when the metal arm was being added to him, they must have erased all the memories of "Bucky Barnes". After that point, it was really just the assassinations or missions that he has memories of. Until you know he encountered Steve and some part of his mind remembered Steve until it all came back

 

[DuneMuadDib]

So how many people got the reference...
Sorry couldn't resist.
When Bucky and Widow are fighting, after he's been brainwashed again she says "you could recognize me."
Did anyone else get the feeling that she was referring to the fact that he trained her back in Russia in the comics?
Also, any ideas as to why Widow's shock/bite thing didn't work on crossbones? That one has me confused.

I get the feeling that she and Winter Soldier had crossed paths back when she was KGB or whatever Widow's seedy backstory is in the MCU. Winter Soldier seems to have been used only as a hitman when thawed out, so I don't see him being used to train her.

 

[dascoyne]

So how many people got the reference...
Sorry couldn't resist.
When Bucky and Widow are fighting, after he's been brainwashed again she says "you could recognize me."
Did anyone else get the feeling that she was referring to the fact that he trained her back in Russia in the comics?
Also, any ideas as to why Widow's shock/bite thing didn't work on crossbones? That one has me confused.

I get the feeling that she and Winter Soldier had crossed paths back when she was KGB or whatever Widow's seedy backstory is in the MCU. Winter Soldier seems to have been used only as a hitman when thawed out, so I don't see him being used to train her.

I think this is where they crossed paths.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

I think this is where they crossed paths.

Exactly what I was thinking of!

 

[Malibu139]

Also, any ideas as to why Widow's shock/bite thing didn't work on crossbones? That one has me confused.

crossbones line of " I don't work that way no more "when she zaps him makes me think he has some sort of enhancements also.
On the second viewing it looks like he walks funny and I swear I heard some mechanical sound effects when he was stalking into the cdc.

 

[dascoyne]

Also, any ideas as to why Widow's shock/bite thing didn't work on crossbones? That one has me confused.

I assumed that, as a guy with extensive burns, his nerve endings are essentially dead and he either feels no pain or his reflexive motor response to noxious stimuli is deadened/absent.

 

[Goldhawk]

I assumed that, as a guy with extensive burns, his nerve endings are essentially dead and he either feels no pain or his reflexive motor response to noxious stimuli is deadened/absent.

Hmmmm. He seemed to expect that it wouldn't work, though, which is why I thought there was some sort of enhancement. Why would a guy like that just figure "Oh, I've been badly burned, hence I should now be immune to shocks"?
And how would he know he "didn't work that way " unless he'd tested it or had some other reason to know for sure.
I can see how those burns might be the cause, I'm just not sold on that explanation yet.

 

[karmajay]

Hmmmm. He seemed to expect that it wouldn't work, though, which is why I thought there was some sort of enhancement. Why would a guy like that just figure "Oh, I've been badly burned, hence I should now be immune to shocks"?
And how would he know he "didn't work that way " unless he'd tested it or had some other reason to know for sure.
I can see how those burns might be the cause, I'm just not sold on that explanation yet.

Well, it seems they had been following him and trying to catch him so i doubt this was hist first mission.

 

[dascoyne]

Hmmmm. He seemed to expect that it wouldn't work, though, which is why I thought there was some sort of enhancement. Why would a guy like that just figure "Oh, I've been badly burned, hence I should now be immune to shocks"?
And how would he know he "didn't work that way " unless he'd tested it or had some other reason to know for sure.
I can see how those burns might be the cause, I'm just not sold on that explanation yet.

Whether he had enhancements or nerve damage, I would expect that he'd have some idea of his capabilities and limitations since his rehabilitation/reconstruction and the other missions that occurred in the months since Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron. In fact, before he's deployed to any mission I would only expect that he'd have at least been briefed (e.g. can't get Tazed). It would make less sense, in either case, if he discovered, for the first time in the field, that he's immune to electrical shocks.

 

[Father]

I get the feeling that she and Winter Soldier had crossed paths back when she was KGB or whatever Widow's seedy backstory is in the MCU. Winter Soldier seems to have been used only as a hitman when thawed out, so I don't see him being used to train her.

She said they had in CA TWS.

Widow - Five years ago, I was escorting a nuclear engineer out of Iran. Somebody shot out my tires near Odessa. We lost control, went straight over a cliff. I pulled us out.
But the Winter Soldier was there. I was covering my engineer so he shot him straight through me. Soviet slug. No rifling. Bye-bye, bikinis.

Cap - Yeah, I bet you look terrible in them now.

Widow - Going after him is a dead end. I know, I've tried.

Cap - Like you said, he's a ghost story. Well, let's find out what the ghost wants.