Can you help identify the ROTJ Stormtrooper/Fett Hard Hat Liner?

[GINO]

I'll do you one better.
I'll go form a faceplate and take some pics.
Give me an hour or so.

 

[firebladejedi]

My money is on the Joe / Keith helmet :thumbsup

Has it been an hour yet? Ive seen Matts videos on youtube, pulling plastic takes minutes :lol

 

[GINO]

My money is on the Joe / Keith helmet :thumbsup

It has to be, because you'd never get one from me.

 

[Keith]

I'll do you one better.
I'll go form a faceplate and take some pics.
Give me an hour or so.

Thats not one better though, its showing what the mold produces NOW and not what it produced THEN.

The whole point was to see what sort of parts the original TE molds made in their original state.

Again, this is just years of interest and wondering about the TE ROTJ molds, as you have said, you have no plans to offer any. Any time i ask questions about the TE ROTJ molds, i always end up back to square one and still wondering.

Was the helmet taken apart to be molded?

Keith.

 

[GINO]

The molds haven't been in service since that first helmet was put together. In fact, that was the last time they were ever used.

But to answer your question and looking at my molds, I would say yes, the helmet was taken apart before molding.

.

 

[firebladejedi]

Its been nearly two hours, photos please

 

[Keith]

Just a close up shot of the right tube of the helmet you built ten years ago then?

Keith.

 

[GINO]

I'm not taking any pics of that old pos.

I decided to paint the frown and vocoder before taking pics.
Also trimmed out an ear, but had to tape it in place instead of glueing it down like on the originals.

I'll take a bunch more when I've finished a whole helmet.


.

 

[Keith]

But a close up of the right tube won't show any of your old work, but will show if the shape is correct.
From what i have seen of all the TE versions of ROTJ helmet, this detail was removed for some reason.

The outer eye sockets seem much deeper on the TE molds too. From under the eyes to the face i mean.

Keith.

 

[GINO]

What do you mean my old work? And the shape is correct.
There is no difference in the old faceplate and this new one other than the old one was made out of .100 thick styrene and painted white, with ears bolted on, and horrible hand made decals just to complete the look. It is not something I feel comfortable taking a photo of.
The faceplate mold I have has all the nuances found on the original. Especially the bottom under the tubes where it gets all wonky.
As I said, I plan to take many more photos, especially comparison shots because that truly is the only way to appreciate these nuances.

Also you seem to be operating under the assumption that whatever TE has is what I have which I told you already is not the case.


.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Having seen both sets of molds I believe there were two, or rather some of the ESB helmets were re-used in Jedi as background helmets, see www.starwarshelmets.com for details.

.....Joe

Joe, not wishing to be pedantic but my article in SWH was about whether RotJ style helmets were used in ESB - not the other way round. After investigation including a discussion with John Mollo I was able to reveal that new Stormtrooper vac forming was done for ESB (creating the "Mark 2 " Stormtroopers). However I dont recall ever seeing any evidence to suggest that ANH/ESB helmets were used in RotJ.

Sorry to go OT.

Personaly speaking I'm looking forward to seeing some of the completed RotJ style helmets as am tired of ANH's. Any pics of one of your helmets yet Joe as theyre sounding very interesting?

Cheers

Jez

 

[g05ty]

ok this whole thread is getting a bit OT now as it was intended to try to help Joe find helmet liners :confused
Will try to get hold of the old man, joe and see if he remembers anything about his old hard hat ... havent spoken to him for a while and i doubt he will remember it at all but worth a shot. :unsure

 

[GINO]

Actually I believe that the mark 2 troopers refers to the refurbishing of the ANH suits. That's why only such a short amount of time, and a short amount of material/improvements were necessary.
Not brand new costumes. Replacement parts perhaps, but not entirely brand new costumes.

.

 

[Keith]

I don't believe there is any difference in the face or cap/back parts between the type 1 and type 2 rotj helmets so we'll have to agree to disagree. Different ears, different decals and accressories, and different assembly..

Actually only the left ear is different on the hero ROTJ. The right ear is just a trimmed back ANH ear.

My theory is that they molded two different ANH/ESB helmets, the hero in the US and the background in the UK.
Think about the other differences, like the hard hat liner in the hero and the old UK style star shaped yellow foam in the background.

The ANH/ESB helmet they molded for the hero ROTJ helmet had a missing left ear and the ANH/ESB helmet they molded for the background ROTJ helmet was complete with both ears.

If only one helmet was molded, why would they rebuild a left ear when they had both ears?

As Joe and i have said, we believe there were two different molds. This would explain why the rest of the helmet in both versions looks different and why the molds taken from the insides of both of Joes original ROTJ helmets looked different.

Keith.

 

[GINO]

I don't agree with there being defined hero and background ROTJ helmets.
Just because there are two types doesn't mean that one is hero and one is background.
We've not even identified a type 1 helmet (the kind that is similar to the ESB helmets) on screen. We have to assume that they were put to use in the endor scenes but that still remains unconfirmed.

BTW, I started calling them type 1 and type 2 ROTJ helmets as I was the first in the prop community to make those distinctions. Outside of having any other hard evidence as to what/where/why they were different, calling them type 1 and type 2 seemed to fit best.

I also don't think there were two different face molds. Just a difference in assembly.

As far as why the wonky ear was made? We don't know for sure. We can only come up with theories.


.

 

[Keith]

I don't agree with there being defined hero and background ROTJ helmets.
Just because there are two types doesn't mean that one is hero and one is background..

You know what i mean though, we can all call them different things. I say hero as those endor style helmets are the main version we see up close.

BTW, I started calling them type 1 and type 2 ROTJ helmets as I was the first in the prop community to make those distinctions...

Ok i get it, i pi$$ed you off by informing you about only one ear being different. Chill a bit, these are just bits of plastic at the end of the day. Lets stay friendly.

As far as why the wonky ear was made? We don't know for sure. We can only come up with theories..

Well i have posted my theory. Oh and its ear now is it....just kidding.

Keith.

 

[GINO]

Nope, I was just trying to explain my rationale for the terminology I came up with since none existed at the time.

PS, I do think the type 2 ears are different than the type 1 (from a distinguishability standpoint), just that only one seemed to be sculpted new (and wonky).

 

[Keith]

I do think the type 2 ears are different than the type 1 (from a distinguishability standpoint), just that only one seemed to be sculpted new (and wonky).

Sorry, i've read this a few times, but i don't get what you are saying.
At first i thought you were telling me that only one ear was resculpted, but i must be wrong.

I'm going offline now though, so i'll check back later.

Keith.

 

[GINO]

Yes, only one ear was resculpted. The wonky looking one. The other side, even though it was not a resculpt, still is distinguishable between the type 1 and type 2 helmets.
In other words, you said only one earcap was different between the two helmet types. I am saying that both are different on both types, but only one was a resculpt.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

We do seem to be going a bit OT - sorry for that but....

Actually I believe that the mark 2 troopers refers to the refurbishing of the ANH suits. That's why only such a short amount of time, and a short amount of material/improvements were necessary.
Not brand new costumes. Replacement parts perhaps, but not entirely brand new costumes.

.

Assuming ths is directed at me, you seem to be reiterating my own conclusions based on my own investigaton, reported on my own site :lol

Regarding the two types of helmets linked to RotJ, I think its better they are referred to as RF/Rounded Frown and SF/Square Frown - since its the the most obvious way they can be differentiated.

There has been a lot of discussions recently between a number of us who have handled numerous original RotJ stormtrooper helmets. Bottom line is I dont think anyone will find a photo of a SF on set on RotJ since I dont think they were used for the movie.

Cheers

Jez