Can you help identify the ROTJ Stormtrooper/Fett Hard Hat Liner?

[JoeR]

I have been trying to ID/match the hard hat liner for years. I have no idea if it even still exists. This may be a wild goose chase. There were some marking/numbers on the liner in my helmet, not sure if I should mention these or not at this stage.

Can anyone help?

I will offer a fully finished replica ROTJ Stormtrooper Helmet (cast from my original helmet) to the person who can find this, if it even still exists.

Can someone post the interior shot of the fett helmet if it is cool with the owner, that might help.

Joe

 

[g05ty]

that looks to me like a standard fit liner used on many old hard hats around the time of the film im sure my dad had one with the same if not similar liner (dont know the make he came home with it from work),
i think it would be quite hard to find the exact liner today but you could try going to a workwear suppliers and asking them if they have any ideas or ask about on building sites to see if theres any abandoned hats you could look at but i think they are all fully plastic theese days. - maybe even try builders companies or hard hat makers like JSP as some might have old stuff lying around they might let you have the liner from.
Hope this helps.
Rob

 

[terryr]

Yeah, that's the older type with adjustable string for the top of the head. These days it's one size fits all. Old hats are generally throw out. Check flea markets etc.

 

[Keith]

I will offer a fully finished replica ROTJ Stormtrooper Helmet (cast from my original helmet) to the person who can find this, if it even still exists.


Joe

OUCH! I almost hope nobody finds one!

Keith.

 

[Art Andrews]

Here you go. Can't remember who took the photo of the interior of the Jedi, but the awesome interior shot of the ESB came from vadermania.

 

[g05ty]

Just a thought here but have you looked at kayak/canoe hats/helmets as i think sds were manufacturing them at the time they made the stormie buckets, might be a long shot but worth a try.

 

[GINO]

I too have been looking for this for years.
Found some stuff that was pretty close, but not the exact one.
I want them for my ESB Fett helmet as well as the ROTJ trooper helmets I'm about to make.


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[JoeR]

Thanks for the picture. That should help with the search.

@ Gino, your Jedi helmets will be from the Matt/TE molds I take it? This is good as mine have the different Hero/close up style of ear type that were seen on screen.

I have yet to see a helmet like Matt's original Jedi helmet see any screen time yet, although I haven't trawled ROTJ in HD yet.

My replica will look identical to this type of helmet that is seen throughout Jedi:

I also have scans from an original set of decals and the neck trim copied from the cross section of original trim that I have, and the lenses will be cast from my original Jedi helmet too. My helmet should be as close to what was on screen as is possible at this stage.

Anyway, if anyone can source this liner, you will be getting an ultra accurate replica.

Joe

 

[JoeR]

Here are some more pictures.

Firstly my original base helmet, then DM's screen used originals of the RF/close up/Hero style. Then the last two pictures show some close ups of the hard hat liner, the left picture is my original base helmet and the right helmet is the DM screen used helmet.



DM LFL 911 Helmet

DM 2nd Helmet

 

[GINO]

@ Gino, your Jedi helmets will be from the Matt/TE molds I take it? This is good as mine have the different Hero/close up style of ear type that were seen on screen.

I have yet to see a helmet like Matt's original Jedi helmet see any screen time yet, although I haven't trawled ROTJ in HD yet.

Yes, I've had them all this time but since I'm not very big a fan of rotj helmets, I've never bothered investing any time in making them. However I have molds for both ear styles so I'll be able to make both a type 1 and type 2 helmet. And the molds I have (the ones I originally got back in 2000) don't look anything like the current reject helmets Matt makes. I think rotj helmet fans will be amazed, but I'm not really that much of a fan myself.
But I figured that since I have these molds and a new vac form machine, might as well round out the collection.

I also have scans from an original set of decals and the neck trim copied from the cross section of original trim that I have, and the lenses will be cast from my original Jedi helmet too. My helmet should be as close to what was on screen as is possible at this stage.

I have tracings. I think it will be interesting to see whose turn out better.


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[Keith]

Gino, Its not just the ears that are different. The SF and RF (version 1 and version 2) are two different helmets from different molds. Mixing the ears would create a mongrel.

With the number of helmets Joe and i will be offering, i'm sure there will still not be enough to go around even with your run Gino, so this is in no way a competiton based question, its something i've been wondering for years and i'm sure you have seen me post about it over the years, long before Joe got his original helmets, but why did the TE molds come out so poor? Was the helmet not taken apart?

I don't undertand why yours would be better than TE's, did TE mold the helmet twice and give you the good ones and keep the poor set for himself? Have you had to rework the molds at all?
Can you post a few photos of the Jedi helmet you made for yourself Gino? The one on your shelf. I don't think i've ever seen any close ups of it.

Keith.

 

[GINO]

Gino, Its not just the ears that are different. The SF and RF (version 1 and version 2) are two different helmets from different molds. Mixing the ears would create a mongrel.

I don't believe they are from different molds at all. Only the ears.

With the number of helmets Joe and i will be offering, i'm sure there will still not be enough to go around even with your run Gino, so this is in no way a competiton based question, its something i've been wondering for years and i'm sure you have seen me post about it over the years, long before Joe got his original helmets,

I'm not concerned about any competition. I'm not offering mine to people. Maybe a couple of friends but no runs.

but why did the TE molds come out so poor? Was the helmet not taken apart?

I don't know what molds you are referring to. Hopefully not that lumpy mess TE has been showing.
The original molds I have are not poor at all. The only problem is with the cap/back and that is due to the draft angle not being properly considered. But that has nothing to do with the details, just the area that gets trimmed away. It is something I have to fix before making helmets of a quality that I am comfortable with.

I don't undertand why yours would be better than TE's, did TE mold the helmet twice and give you the good ones and keep the poor set for himself?

I'm sure it was not molded twice. I own the originals. Whatever it is that he is offering now is nothing like what I have. I see all kind of lies and misleading about trooper stuff all over other forums go unchallenged. I would think someone like you know know better when it comes to TE.
And even when he owned the molds back in the 90's, he was never able to get parts off the molds that were worth a damn. A combination of super thick plastic and a horrible vac set up.

Have you had to rework the molds at all?

No. Not in the detail areas. Only the draft of the cap/back which all get trimmed away.

Can you post a few photos of the Jedi helmet you made for yourself Gino? The one on your shelf. I don't think i've ever seen any close ups of it.

You are right and there is a reason for that. To say it's not something I'm proud of would be an understatement. I'd rather post pics of a new completed version. That helmet that you've seen on the shelf was made way back when we first got the molds. It was a test helmet. The very first trooper helmet I ever put together actually. And it is horribly bad.
All this time, I've never made a rotj helmet because I am not really a fan of them. The original molds just sat covered in dust while I focused on reworking the armor mold duplicates into ANH. However I had a change of heart about wanting to have at least one complete rotj helmet and suit for display. Especially since the original rotj molds are unaltered, they would produce much more accurate pieces than any version of reworked ANH armor.


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[JoeR]

Having seen both sets of molds I believe there were two, or rather some of the ESB helmets were re-used in Jedi as background helmets, see www.starwarshelmets.com for details.

My molds are nothing like Matt's, and I have owned one of his original run Jedi helmets. Nothing will prove my point other than pictures.

Joe

 

[GINO]

Well I disagree.
I also disagree about new helmets being formed for ESB and reused in ROTJ.

In my opinion, Matt has never made respectable rotj helmets ever. And his current pieces are nothing like mine because whatever he is using now to make them is not what he says it is.

Pictures speak a thousand words. It will all become clear when I post pics of a finished helmet.

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[Keith]

I'm not sure what you mean, why would you have to rework something that has to be trimmed away? Do you mean the left ear wouldnt turn inwards without this work?

I would love to know how TE molded the Jedi helmet. Was the helmet even taken apart? I've seen all TE's ROTJ helmets old and new and i have seen details missing that have nothing to do with thick ABS or a poor vac machine. Things like the lump on the right tube, turning in ear and the whole slim look of the face.

I understand why you don't want to show poor work of your own, but i'm sure we can look past that if it was ten years ago.
I just want to see things like that lump under the right tube, the face from the front and the turning in left ear due to the angle of the face and cap on that side. That will show how accurate the molds are, even if its trimmed, put together and painted badly.

The rf or hero version molds look a lot differnt than the sf background version molds. The sf version is more like a direct recast of a ANH/ESB helmet and the RF is a rewoked, cleaned up version. So cleaned up that it looks smaller.

Keith.

 

[JoeR]

We will never agree.:lol

My molds are closer to what was on screen and I have neck trim from original, lenses from original and direct scanned decals from an original.

I struggle to see how yours could be more accurate, other than the politician style 'spin'.

As I said in my pm, I would like to see the original ears that your RF/Type 2 ears were cast from.

Pictures will speak for themselves, anyway.

Joe

 

[GINO]

I'm not sure what you mean, why would you have to rework something that has to be trimmed away?

Because it is non existent. Imagine a solid back/cap with no draft angle. You can't form over that with a professional machine. Do you know what I mean by draft? It is the part of the mold that angles away. When the original mold was taken, they did not build this part into the mold. Only the back/cap itself was molded without any thought as to how it would be made vacuum formable.

Do you mean the left ear wouldnt turn inwards without this work?

No, see above.

I would love to know how TE molded the Jedi helmet. Was the helmet even taken apart? I've seen all TE's ROTJ helmets old and new and i have seen details missing that have nothing to do with thick ABS or a poor vac machine. Things like the lump on the right tube, turning in ear and the whole slim look of the face.

I don't know what to tell you. My face mold has all the rotj distinguishing features. I cannot say why matt's stuff never turned out correctly. My best guess is that his pieces were from re-worked molds and not the original one I have. If it was a super early piece, it should look just like mine but extremely soft. I think people think they are looking at one of his early pieces when they are not.

The rf or hero version molds look a lot differnt than the sf background version molds. The sf version is more like a direct recast of a ANH/ESB helmet and the RF is a rewoked, cleaned up version. So cleaned up that it looks smaller.

I don't know what you mean by rf?
I don't believe there is any difference in the face or cap/back parts between the type 1 and type 2 rotj helmets so we'll have to agree to disagree. Different ears, different decals and accressories, and different assembly.


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[GINO]

Pictures will speak for themselves, anyway.

Joe

For sure.

.

 

[Keith]

As you have a helmet made from these molds right there with you, can you not show photos of it?
As i said, we can look past ten year old assembly and painting, but the actual helmet parts will be the same right? We could just confirm that the details are there even if you painted the helmet pink it wouldnt matter.

Keith.

 

[Keith]

And i would love to know how TE molded the Jedi helmet. I'm still wondering if it was taken apart to be molded.

Keith.