Building X-Wing 1/24 : Help!!

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Treadwell,

Regarding this pic and your questions on this area:

</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>what are the parts colored blue, yellow and green? -what is the red-colored part missing from Frank's version?</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Dunno. I wouldn't encourage you to spend too much money tracking them down, though! The "X" shaped bit may have originally come from a kit, but it's so non-descript and so easy to make from scratch, why bother searching? This may be counter-intuitive, but the more distinctive and irregular a part, the easier it is to find. Which is good news for us, because they're also the hardest to recreate from scratch. As for the simple shapes, well you might find a half-dozen candidates for the "X" part in the middle of that Me-109 engine block thingy there, but how would you ever know which one is the "right" one? The engine block thingy itself is easy to spot, 'cause it's very distinctive and there's only one kit that has that particular part in it.

As for the wee-tiny greeblies, same deal. Really small, sparsely detailed, you're better off making them yourself. You could knock out masters for those two purpley parts and the one red one in ten minutes, tops.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>is it me, or does the teal-colored Harrier engine part look a bit different in these two photos? A result of the 90s Harrier retooling, perhaps?</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

All those parts look slightly different owing to distortion in the casting of this area. Compare any of those parts. This particular greeblie cluster was really popular at ILM. It shows up all over the place on other models - X-Wing, Y-wing, Death Star trench, etc. What does that say? Well, it says that those aren't original parts you're looking at on the Red 3 hero model, but at least second-generation recasts. And remember, the casting technology that ILM used in 1975 didn't produce near perfectly crisp copies, like Frank's materials do. Back then, shrinkage and distortion, and bubbles were obviously a bigger problem.

For more evidence, just look closely at the other Harrier part on that hero R2 strip, the one that sits behind the Hurricane engine part. Not only is the entire part slighlty deformed, the cylindrical section is partially missing due to a bubble in the casting as well.

HTH,

 

[Treadwell]

Whoops, I guess I won't be able to go back and edit the older versions of the list after all.

Thanks for the move, beaz!

Edit:
Since photopoint went blotto and wrecked the pic links in the uneditable posts above, here's the pic again so future readers can follow along:

 

[EchoLeader]

Beaz, that looks like the same part used on the TIE Bomber wings. It's the shock absorbers that seen in front and and back of the cross member on the wings. At least the parts for the TIE Bomber comes from the Hanomag kit also.

Very interesting.

Rolando

 

[Treadwell]

Nice find, thanks for sharing! Would that detail be unique to Red 2?

Also a belated thanks for the R2 strip comments. I only just now noticed them...every time I scanned the thread and saw that pic I thought it was my own post.

I agree about scratch-building simpler parts. Just doesn't hurt to have the "real" ones when possible (and affordable), is all.

In fact, I could swear Frank once posted that the x-shaped yellow part was a specific tank axle, but damned if I can find the post.

 

[Treadwell]

[edit, complete list removed for the sake of brevity. See below for a summary of all changes made to the list since its first posting.]

 

[Treadwell]

In case any of this warrants discussion, (and to help anyone trying to determine what has been added/changed) here is what has been changed in the list since I first posted it weeks ago. Many clarifications were added by myself based on my own observations, and, of course, many were contributed by you good folks!

Airfix 1/24 AV-8A Hawker Harrier:
retail price is $85, and the parts for the R2 strip are #'s 17 & 18

Airfix 1/24 Hawker Hurricane Mk II:
The Mk1 version seems to be more plentiful currently, and it does have the required part: #12, right behind R2. Also, (I haven't even put this in the list yet), cockpit instrumentation pieces appear in the X cockpit...or, at least in the ICONS version.

Airfix 00 Scale (1/72) Panther
you can easily get it for under $10, and the 00 and 1/72-labeled versions are identical. Comes in bags, blisters and boxes. (rather Grinchian, that)

Frog Armstrong 1/72 Whitmore Whitley MKV:
landing gear parts for the engine are #16 (two per kit); they're in a fragile area of their parts tree--beware kits in banged up boxes or without boxes altogether.

Hasegawa 1/700 Waterline Series USN Ticonderoga A/C Carrier:
elevator part for the R2 strip is #43

Holgate and Reynolds HO scale brick:
#1014, currently available via Walthers catalogue at your train hobby shop for $5/sheet

Monogram 1/32 8Rad Panzerspahwagen
part for the rear is #91 or #92 (pick one)

Monogram 1/32 Sherman M4A1 "Screamin' Mimi"
cat#4200, tow hooks for engine detail are part #23, four per kit

Revell 1/32 F-4J Phantom II
the 4E definitely does not work..unless there's a removable-engine version I don't know about. Turkey feathers are different, too.

Tamiya 1/35 German Hanomag Sd.Kfz. 251/1 Armored Half-track:
rod-like part used in trailing edge wing recesses (at least on Red 2)

Tamiya 1/35 Matilda
road wheel, part #14 (sixteen per kit), cut in half and placed on either side of R2 strip

heat sinks are available at www.alliedelec.com. search for Allied stock# 619-0040

 

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</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Would that detail be unique to Red 2?</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Nope. Looks like the pyro model patterns used the same part. The Red 3 hero obviously had a different part here, but I don't know about the other heroes just yet.

 

[Treadwell]

We talkin' the same place on the model as the 8rad part C-9 cylindrical doodads in other models? If so, which other models?

 

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Yes, the 8Rad canister and the Hanomag shaft are interchangeable. The hero Red 2 has the Hanomag part, hero Red 3 has the 8Rad part, and I THINK the hero Red 5 had the 8Rad part, but I'm not sure.

 

[kitbasher]

Just to add my two cents: The Monogram Screamin Mimi kit was NOT used on the X-wing... u-shaped hooks like that are common to many, many armor kits and the ones in the Mimi kit aren't the right ones. Save your money. Also, the Tamiya Matilda does NOT have the correct part(s) for the R2 strip. I know that Frank used the small roller wheels for his casting, but regrettably these are not accurate. The Matilda is still worth getting if you are building a Y-wing, of course. Finally, this is just informational, the Ticonderoga kit was not out in 1975, so technically the elevator part it not from that kit. However, the Saratoga and Lexington are sister ships of the Ticonderoga (if memory serves here), and those kits were indeed out at the time. So you can actually use either one of those as a donor kit for the elevator part. The Ticonderoga kit currently available MAY be from the same mold with some additional kit-specific parts, but if you want the correct "vintage" part, get one of the older kits.

 

[Treadwell]

Hmm...not quite exact I agree, but it's pretty close. All the other tow hooks I've come across have had a much deeper "U" shape. (Granted, it's not like I've seen every kit there is, or even close to it...)

On the other hand, Mimi parts don't show up on other ILM models (TMK), so that alone would suggest another kit supplied them. But I think the Mimi would certainly do in a pinch, if one was inclined to seek it out for such a minor part donation.

Or maybe they're just teeny weeny headphones.

 

[Treadwell]

Early posts in this thread referred to differences between the Airfix Saturn V and the Revell/Monogram. I could never glean just what those differences were, until I had the parts themselves (well, the old kit and Frank's castings of both).

So, in the interest of finally documenting the info, here 'tis:

Keep in mind that the parts were not resting on the scanner in exactly the same way, so some stuff that looks like it might be in a different position isn't.

However, I forgot to put arrows by those two lower box details, but you can see those were moved, too.

I think there might be stage 1 differences, too, but I'll tackle that in the Y thread (eventually).

 

[JamesDavis]

Treadwell,

I have the Smithsonian re-issue of the Saturn V and the parts look just like the originals you posted. The cast pieces you have must be from the Monogram kit.

I also sent you some info concerning some Phantom engine discrepencies.

 

[Treadwell]

Wow, strange. The change must've been very recent, because Frank assuredly did not use the Monogram.

In fact, one of my Saturns was still shrinkwrapped, and although it had the older box art, there was a 1994 promotional sticker on the shrinkwrap. Naturally I was concerned it wouldn't match the 70s version but it does (based on the other castings of Frank's that are not pictured above, and ILM model photos).

So the retooling must've taken place sometime AFTER the switch to Smithsonian repackaging.

 

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The parts on the left that Frank cast are indeed from the old Monogram 1/144 Saturn V. ILM used both the Airfix & Monogram kits almost interchangably, as the parts were nearly identical. I have several of both and can confirm that the pyro models used the Monogram part. Haven't checked the hero models yet, but it's my understanding that some of them used the Monogram parts as well.

You can still buy the old Monogram kit, only now it's Revell/Monogram.

HTH,

 

[Treadwell]

Oh!

I defer.
I will edit the post and picture above.

 

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</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>So just to clarify, then, you guys have (or have seen) the actual Revell/Monogram parts? </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
I have several of both the Monogram and Airfix Saturn Vs. In fact, I have an original vintage issue of each kit sitting right here beside me. The parts that are marked 24 & 25 are in fact parts 24 and 25 from the Monogram Saturn V kit. No ifs, no ands, and no buts!

 

[Flintlock]

Beaz, I know you say "no if's and's or but's", 'however'

the first one I bought was the Monogram Saturn V and they looked a little off. When they reissued the Airfix for Smithsonian Models, I got that kit and they looked like the exact ones. I always thought the Monogram was a new kit. There is also a Revell Saturn V but I believe that it is the EXACT same model as the Monogram. And again, the Smithsonian rocket is the exact same one as the old and newly re-released Airfix kit. Is there something I am missing?

P.S. I have 2 Monogram Saturn V's, 2 Airfix Saturn V's

 

[Treadwell]

Well he wasn't saying that the Revell/Monogram is identical to Airfix, he was just correcting my false assertion that the differences I posted about above were between different Airfix releases.

Both he and Frank have said that Monogram parts show up in ILM X-Wings as well, but I haven't found any yet. Reds 2 and 3 both have Aifix parts, for example...but I've only just started looking at my source material with this in mind.

 

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Guys,

The Monogram kit is from the late sixties, just like the Airfix kit. The instructions in my first edition Monogram kit are copyrighted 1968. The current Revell/Monogram kit is the same as the old Monogram kit. Revell and Monogram merged several years ago. The Smithsonian kit is just a repackaged Airfix kit. Both the Monogram/Revell kit and the Airfix/Smithsonian kit were around when the miniatures from ANH were being built, and I believe both were used in making at least some of the models.

Check this out:

This is a pic of the Monogram Saturn V parts that Bill George used on his Maxi-Brute conversion. See that engine bell part on the left? The one with the two forks? In all the pictures I've seen of the hero models, I've noticed subtle differences in the smaller engine bells from engine to engine. I believe it's because sometimes the Airfix bells were used, and sometimes perhaps the Monograms bells were used.

For example, look on page 112 of the SWC. First look at the big pic of Red 1. Look at the top half of the lower righthand engine and note the shape of the small engine bell. Airfix. Now, look at the pic on the bottom of Red 5. This time look at the lower half of the upper righthand engine. Look at the shape of the small engine bell in there. See a difference? I'll have to see if I can find some time to dredge up better pictures, but that's the general idea.

Also there's the fact that Bill George himself used the Monogram kit in his Maxi-Brute conversion. He wasn't around ILM for ANH, but he does presumably have access to the models that still exist from that era, as well as some of his co-workers who built them. Of course, it's also entirely possible that he simply chose the wrong Saturn kit.

In any event, unless I can find a clear reason to use the Monogram parts, I'll most likely stick with those from the Airfix kit, which are obviously more predominant on the hero models.

HTH,