BRRogers / Verity Cosplay / 7 Chambers - "MoM of All Heroes"

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Verity Cosplay

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Thanks for all this! Just a couple questions, as part of the trade in with Lewis will that include that blue card you have under development as well as the pcb /switch solution in the control box?

yes. And (Most likely) yes. The FX board is still being worked out but yes we are hoping to wrap it up to be in the box with the hilt.

clamp card is an absolute yes.
 

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Verity Cosplay

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Thanks for all this! Just a couple questions, as part of the trade in with Lewis will that include that blue card you have under development as well as the pcb /switch solution in the control box?

we are trying to hold off on FULL details until we can show off glamour photos of the hilt prototypes, however, some exciting elements are unveiled if you read the post in the google docs form carefully.

I feel comfortable sharing a couple things as it is in the parts manifest.

1.) BOTH idealized and canon setups are included in the kit. We also are including duplicate windvanes, lower emitters and emitter cups so that you can hot swap between the uneven rings and the idealized rings presuming you do a pogo pin setup in the grenade. This will allow potentially CREE and pixel configurations simultaneously. Or two pixel setups or two cree setups.

2.) clamp card that BRRogers has been showing off WILL be included.

3.) we are desperately trying to get the FX circuit board completed so that it can be included in the kit. It originally is intended to be so it is a timing issue, but we are trying.

4.) the kit includes the latest revelations around the static emitter plate and should be the most canon emitter plate of ANY hero hilt.

5.) static, normal vented AND hidden vented pommel caps are ALL included.

6.) the most accurate tri-ring ever made also included.

we are hoping to set a new gold standard on what hilt kits should contain and the amenities they provide.
 
I should have read the parts list at the end, this is fantastic. I would gladly wait a bit longer for that pcb to be ready for mine to be sent.

But this is awesome, thanks for the quick response and the great work you are all doing.
 

BRRogers

Sr Member
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I posted this clarification over at TRA after being asked about the ISYHCANL


“The “ISYHCANL” variant has not been developed for the deliverable kit.

Simply put, we tried. However there just seemed to be no logical way to mechanically fix the rails on in a way that would be as accurate and ‘safe’ to wield as we require for an FX hilt.

However, it will be a very easy thing for people to use the provided card, acquire brass angle, and glue those onto the box top to re-create the look.
We’re looking at also hosting a Isyhcanl ‘ready’ control box insert so that folks can have that option printed if they choose.

So in short, it’s up to the customer to accept their own liability if they choose to do ISYHCANL. We otherwise were unable to satisfactorily produce a duel-able FX version. That conversion will be easily accessible though.”

make sense?

It’ll be a crazy easy mod that y’all can do aftermarket, and we’ll provide some support for (shapeway insert)
 

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PrinceZip

Master Member
I noticed in the parts list that the 'windvane' will be made of copper.
What is the reasoning behind this material choice?
I thought the windvane section of the real hero prop was made of aluminum.

Screen Shot 2020-01-07 at 10.48.26 AM.png
 

teecrooz

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I noticed in the parts list that the 'windvane' will be made of copper.
What is the reasoning behind this material choice?
I thought the windvane section of the real hero prop was made of aluminum.

The FX runs will have copper necks. The static run that is being discussed (for potentially after the FX run) would have a solid aluminum hilt, including the neck.
 

Verity Cosplay

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I noticed in the parts list that the 'windvane' will be made of copper.
What is the reasoning behind this material choice?
I thought the windvane section of the real hero prop was made of aluminum.

View attachment 1244615

as teecrooz mentions, the static will be solid aluminum. For the FX the intention is that end users won't need to "finish" their appearances of their sabers. As such the grenade ring grooves and base are to be black matte anodized and we wanted natural metal finishes to the parts.

that said, we ARE discussing some other alternative windvane materials / options but we are evaluating costs of including additional windvanes given every material addition adds two windvanes to each kit given the hot swappable nature of the front half.

Based on BRRogers' color matching research we actually think bronze may be the "best" windvane material to do a natural metal but still color match the closest.

The FX community though is very accustomed to seeing copper for the windvane hence that initial choice, and then there are folks such as yourselves who prefer to paint over aluminum.

one outstanding discussion with the factory is evaluating potentially allowing all three materials into the kit or at a minimum the copper and bronze windvanes.
 

PrinceZip

Master Member
The windvane material decision is very unfortunate to hear.
With all the painstaking research and effort put in for accuracy, choosing a wrong material is rather disappointing.

For those that don't care about accuracy, there are plenty of alternative hilts out there like KR and VV.
Many FX folks will also appreciate the ultimate material accuracy and differentiation from other products.

It's a real shame that aluminum material is only reserved for solid, static hilts.
Many people including AS thinks the real hero may be empty inside.
If this theory is correct, then 'copper fx hilt' and 'alu static solid hilt' would be missing the mark.

That said, I will be joining the run regardless to support you guys.
Just my .02
 

Verity Cosplay

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The windvane material decision is very unfortunate to hear.
With all the painstaking research and effort put in for accuracy, choosing a wrong material is rather disappointing.

For those that don't care about accuracy, there are plenty of alternative hilts out there like KR and VV.
Many FX folks will also appreciate the ultimate material accuracy and differentiation from other products.

It's a real shame that aluminum material is only reserved for solid, static hilts.
Many people including AS thinks the real hero may be empty inside.
If this theory is correct, then 'copper fx hilt' and 'alu static solid hilt' would be missing the mark.

That said, I will be joining the run regardless to support you guys.
Just my .02

our desire is certainly to offer all three materials. Lewis is getting quotes / cost for this. We just can't commit fully to it until costs come back.

we toyed with the idea of allowing people to "choose their material" but then we get into strange configuration numbers affecting production costs for stuff vs a big batch. We should have an answer in a couple of days whether we can include all the desired materials as part of the kit.

the other challenge is that it also will likely mean a bunch of extra parts for folks. (If you stick aluminum on both grenades then you wind up with two extra copper ones and two extra bronze ones). So there is a downside to all the cases.

we ARE however trying to gather costs for these setups and hopefully it can be done. I'll post here once we have a definitive answer.

but trust me, we are absolutely trying to make EVERYONE happy with what we are doing.

:)
 

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PrinceZip

Master Member
It would make the production and planning so much simpler if all of the windvanes are just accurate aluminum ;)
I may be biased, but I think the inclusion of brass and copper windvanes just unnecessarily complicates the run haha

Perhaps, brass and copper windvanes can be optional extra for those who want them?

Also, will the parts (including windvane) be interchangeable between FX and Static hilts?

I think it's great that you guys are looking over different material options and trying to satisfy everyone.
It just shocked and baffled me that wrong materials (Copper and Brass) were given priority over accurate aluminum in your consideration.
 
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BRRogers

Sr Member
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On that sheet the copper is the placeholder material for the windvane.

As Adam said we are pricing up the others.
87ACEAFF-AA2A-43D5-A47F-82ED15874A1D.jpeg

Just to clarify: bronze, not brass.
I’m against brass (personally)
The above photo are some pieces of brass and bronze I had on hand, lightly patina’d.
Bronze is pinker than brass, but not as red as copper... thus my preference.

with the FX the goal is to make something durable and long-lasting for those who will be dueling and handling their saber a lot, hence the use of a solid material will ultimately have more longevity. If people desire a painted neck, obviously the can do so with aluminum but it will be subject to being worn down. In product terms that’s less desirable.
The Static, when produced, will be done so with aluminum. It will likely be solid based on some solid guesswork and more importantly som brilliant minds who’ve determined you can fit the electronics in the control box (and have done so)
I’ll let them come out with it when they will
 

PrinceZip

Master Member
Thank you for the explanation!
Although I still don't agree with the wrong material choices, I see your point.
Fingers crossed alu windvane will be available for FX as well.

I'm curious what the 'solid guesswork' is behind your decision to make the Static version fully solid :unsure:
 

Spyhunter2k

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
On that sheet the copper is the placeholder material for the windvane.

As Adam said we are pricing up the others.
View attachment 1244656
Just to clarify: bronze, not brass.
I’m against brass (personally)
The above photo are some pieces of brass and bronze I had on hand, lightly patina’d.
Bronze is pinker than brass, but not as red as copper... thus my preference.

with the FX the goal is to make something durable and long-lasting for those who will be dueling and handling their saber a lot, hence the use of a solid material will ultimately have more longevity. If people desire a painted neck, obviously the can do so with aluminum but it will be subject to being worn down. In product terms that’s less desirable.
The Static, when produced, will be done so with aluminum. It will likely be solid based on some solid guesswork and more importantly som brilliant minds who’ve determined you can fit the electronics in the control box (and have done so)
I’ll let them come out with it when they will

Yes, but when you look at the saber as it appeared in 1983 on screen and on set, as opposed to pics taken in questionable lighting once the saber was in the archives?


Here's a pic of the aged-brass/antique-gold they used on set:

1578579308869.png



As seen on screen, where the neck, rails, AND traces were gold:
1578579452917.png



Even the hero in good lighting appears much more gold than copper (though it does have a tish more red than the brass seen on screen, which is why some prefer the ever-so-slightly-redder antique gold color to aged brass):

1578579233345.png


Here's aged brass:
1578579530491.png


Now SOME types of silicone bronze do have almost the same appearance as antique-gold/aged-brass, but as you can see in the ISYHCANLS scene, the neck, rails, and traces actually all match, and the rails are only available in brass. You can do a wash on a circuit card with gold traces, and age a brass neck and rails to match. Voila.

Using an inaccurate detail such as copper, even as an option, because it's been used in so many innacurate replicas before, only serves to group yours with theirs, when this deserves to stand alone in all of its awesomeness.
 

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BRRogers

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Right, we have limitless photos of this prop on display in the "MoM thread" linked at the top. In every sort of lighting... that's what is guiding this.

And remember, the focus of this FX project is to deliver the lightsaber as seen on display; beginning with the Magic of Myth Exhibit.

It's true that brass ages up quite well... Dann and others have done a great job of this. However it will always have a very yellow tone regardless of polishing or aging. Copper will always have a very red tone regardless of polishing or aging. Again I'll reference the image i posted above of two shop samples with natural patina. (The Whisky Rubbed Brass sample posted above is a chemical patina mix you can purchase to achieve that specific effect... as someone who's worked in an ornamental metalwork shop that color is not the normal tone that brass takes on naturally)

As such, we accept the fact that,
the original is aluminum, painted.
In the ISYHCANL scene the rails are very yellowy, even so with color correction. So they may well be brass. But I'd argue that the lighting and color correction in the ISYHCANL is NOT representative. Just look how washed out vader's chestbox is. Or how the clamp card is stark blue.

Here is a color correction, matching chestboxes IRL. AND removing some of the green post production from the lightsaber.
this resembles something different.
colorcorrectedISYCANL.jpg

Yall feel free to take a stab at it too... I don't want to be the only one making proofs.

There are just certain ways that lighting creates tricks. ESPECIALLY film lighting setups, much less bad post-production color correction. Interior lighting, exterior lighting, reflections, etc etc etc.

If people desire to add brass rails to create a ISYHCANL look they are welcome to do so as I mentioned. That will be very easy to do.


But this is why we've selected copper for the FX rails, and are discussing our options for the windvane.

In every photo the rails are the reddest 'metal', redder than the windvane, and in every photo the windvane has a red tone ( more than brass.)
Screen Shot 2020-01-09 at 10.24.09 AM.png



The idea is this. by the time they got to the MoM they rails were turned into something coppery looking. And the actual windvane is antique gold paint on aluminum.

-As a premium FX lightsaber build, people like and want copper because it matches itself. It's a high demand feature expected and thus worth including. This is a great "idealized" option.
-As an accurate build the aluminium would be included, for people to paint as they desire. This is the most "cannon" option.
-As a natural color match, bronze is a dead ringer, as it is equally yellow and red, and matches the antique gold paint tone well without having to purchase any caustic patinas. This is my preference and no-one (i know of) has done this option yet.

Thus we're looking at Copper, Bronze, and Aluminum.
The rails are copper for the FX build,
People can buy their own Brass L stock and age it as they desire for the ISYHCANL. And plastruct sells the grey rails necessary to make a canon control box.


By providing ALL those options, I believe it shows we care about everyone and want everyone to be pleased with this product. I think this DOES set us apart from the rest because we are going way above and beyond the norm.


*Edit* Realizing the cadence of this post may sound snippy.
It's not! I love you guys, just want to answer thoroughly. I'm really late to work but I wanted to get this out there.
 
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Spyhunter2k

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
And remember, the focus of this FX project is to deliver the lightsaber as seen on display; beginning with the Magic of Myth Exhibit.

Right, I know this is the saber you're trying to replicate, but I've never been able to understand folks that want to replicate the state of a prop as it existed/exists years after filming, as opposed to how the prop appeared on screen during filming and was indelibly inscribed within our collective consciousness. For one thing, trying to replicate it as it appears after filming is always a moving target, as the condition of a prop continually deteriorates over time. That tri-ring wasn't always so rusty, for example. What amount of rust would you replicate? Troopertrent mentioned that the V2 evidently experienced a few additional missing paint chips from the recent video with Hamill and B. Alinger. I would never try to update my V2 to match ongoing changes to the surviving prop. As best we can tell from actual screen caps, the V3 had a paint job somewhere in-between that of the Hero and V2, likely very similar to the Wired resin saber that surfaced a while back:

1578595218015.png



(Btw, the spray paint used on the neck is most definitely an aged brass or antique gold, likely on top of a black undercoat. No trace of a reddish/copper color.) But that doesn't stop folks from replicating the horrible copper paint and chrome tape job later applied to the V3.

Sorry, don't mean to rant in regards to my confusion at some folks wanting to replicate the later state of props vs. as-seen-on-screen. I just don't get it.

Here is a color correction, matching chestboxes IRL. AND removing some of the green post production from the lightsaber.
this resembles something different.
View attachment 1245367
Yall feel free to take a stab at it too... I don't want to be the only one making proofs.

This "correction" does seem to improve the accuracy of SOME colors in that shot, but it throws others off. Look at the highlights on the grenade section, and how overhead lighting now looks way pink with your adjustment, which makes me think the adjustment introduced too much red.

Also, consider that the the pic below is already 99% color corrected (feel free to apply the same correction to it as you did to the image above to verify):

View attachment 1245361

So if BOTH of the above images are supposedly "color corrected", how can the colors be so different? One "correction" must be off, and this goes to show that color correction is not always as simple as auto-correcting colors in an online program.

-As a premium FX lightsaber build, people like and want copper because it matches itself. It's a high demand feature expected and thus worth including. This is a great "idealized" option.

To me personally, "idealized" would be offering an FX version with the neck/rails/card traces in real metal, but with the colors seen on screen: brass neck, brass rails, gold circuit card traces. Oh my, just thinking about it... Note that brass can be aged/patinated in such a way as to add a bit of redness to look more like silicon bronze or 24K gold, while copper cannot be aged to remove the red to arrive at the accurate on-screen color (that I know of).

I do sincerely appreciate you guys considering multiple options.
 
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BRRogers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Right, I know this is the saber you're trying to replicate, but I've never been able to understand folks that want to replicate the state of a prop as it existed/exists years after filming, as opposed to how the prop appeared on screen during filming and was indelibly inscribed within our collective consciousness. For one thing, trying to replicate it as it appears after filming is always a moving target, as the condition of a prop continually deteriorates over time. That tri-ring wasn't always so rusty, for example. What amount of rust would you replicate? Troopertrent mentioned that the V2 evidently experienced a few additional missing paint chips from the recent video with Hamill and B. Alinger. I would never try to update my V2 to match ongoing changes to the surviving prop. As best we can tell from actual screen caps, the V3 had a paint job somewhere in-between that of the Hero and V2, likely very similar to the Wired resin saber that surfaced a while back:

View attachment 1245420


(Btw, the spray paint used on the neck is most definitely an aged brass or antique gold, likely on top of a black undercoat. No trace of a reddish/copper color.) But that doesn't stop folks from replicating the horrible copper paint and chrome tape job later applied to the V3.

Sorry, don't mean to rant in regards to my confusion at some folks wanting to replicate the later state of props vs. as-seen-on-screen. I just don't get it.



This "correction" does seem to improve the accuracy of SOME colors in that shot, but it throws others off. Look at the highlights on the grenade section, and how overhead lighting now looks way pink with your adjustment, which makes me think the adjustment introduced too much red.

Also, consider that the the pic below is already 99% color corrected (feel free to apply the same correction to it as you did to the image above to verify):

View attachment 1245361

So if BOTH of the above images are supposedly "color corrected", how can the colors be so different? One "correction" must be off, and this goes to show that color correction is not always as simple as auto-correcting colors in an online program.



To me personally, "idealized" would be offering an FX version with the neck/rails/card traces in real metal, but with the colors seen on screen: brass neck, brass rails, gold circuit card traces. Oh my, just thinking about it... Note that brass can be aged/patinated in such a way as to add a bit of redness to look more like silicon bronze or 24K gold, while copper cannot be aged to remove the red to arrive at the accurate on-screen color (that I know of).

I do sincerely appreciate you guys considering multiple options.
Like I said, I just tried correcting it to match up with the Vader chest box. I adjusted it manually in photoshop not with an online auto filter. Automatic results didnt work well because the color information is garbage.

if there’s still red or magenta it’s possible I just need to reduce it or it may even be partially a warm room lighting. I think there’s a photo somewhere with the standing holding the saber?
That might be the best thing to color match to unless it’s black and white. I can’t recall.

Point is I never said it was a perfect correction, and I invite anyone else better at photo retouching to try it again.
but it does showcase not to trust the ISYHCANL scene lighting.

As far as on-screen vs. post-screen prop I’d say it’s definitely my preference: to have a version of the prop as it exists *today*.

It is a valid desire and one that many share.
The cave hero is the version of Luke’s that I had emblazoned in MY memory because of the archives book I poured over when I was young, and the toys that were made based off of it.
For the FEW seconds of screen time it (the isyhcanl) received it appeared to be the same object to young eyes.
So luckily, If the on screen representation is your flavor that’s something you’d still be able to accomplish. You can have your cake and eat it too!

The other issue is the bottom line.
Several hundred people who are looking at this and saying “wow that looks good” may not have the skills or desire to “fiddle” with a boxed product, especially laboring over finding the right chemical mixture to make brass look like BRONZE. Or ‘antique gold’ paint.

that’s why the options are in there.
and like I said, if it comes with copper and you hate it then don’t use it? I’m sure there will be people who would take it off your hands or swap
 

BRRogers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
13A48597-D744-4C63-A13A-1361C1CA7226.jpeg

I didn’t edit the photos posted earlier, just raw pixels... if that helps see the natural coloration of these metals compared to the reference, including the Yuma.

im about to go buy a can of the ace gold to add to this mix for comparison
 

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