Body Filler / Bondo / Other Alternatives???

[bounty treasure]

Have had some bad luck with my last couple bondo attempts...

It is a few years (or more) old, so not sure of that's the issue, but not enough of the catalyst seems to be in the mix, and it does not completely harden...

It's close this go around, and could probably sand, but still takes a bit of a finger nail and afraid to proceed with primer/paint, etc...

Working on an R2 that I got before kids, but now they want to be a part of the fun...

A) Is there any way to get the bondo to harden, if the catalyst was a bit shy in the recipe?

B) Are there alternatives to bondo, when it comes to resin pieces, for filling in discrepencies and being able to sand, prime, paint, etc...

A back shelf project that I'd like to get rolling again, and just seeing (since I've been out of the loop for a few years) what is the best product/substance, to fill in/add material to such imperfections and then allow the finishing/detail processes to proceed...

Bueller??? Anyone???

Thanks all!

 

[Slave1]

Have had some bad luck with my last couple bondo attempts...

It is a few years (or more) old, so not sure of that's the issue, but not enough of the catalyst seems to be in the mix, and it does not completely harden...

It's close this go around, and could probably sand, but still takes a bit of a finger nail and afraid to proceed with primer/paint, etc...

Working on an R2 that I got before kids, but now they want to be a part of the fun...

A) Is there any way to get the bondo to harden, if the catalyst was a bit shy in the recipe?

B) Are there alternatives to bondo, when it comes to resin pieces, for filling in discrepencies and being able to sand, prime, paint, etc...

A back shelf project that I'd like to get rolling again, and just seeing (since I've been out of the loop for a few years) what is the best product/substance, to fill in/add material to such imperfections and then allow the finishing/detail processes to proceed...

Bueller??? Anyone???

Thanks all!

I hate Bondo. It sees like whenever I sand it, it takes away material and leaves holes that in turn need to be filled.

Plumbers putty (the 2 part kneedable kind that comes in a tube) is something readily available that is somewhat sculptable, and you can get it at the hardware store. Just about every replica I've ever done has a little bit of this stuff in it. Sets up rock hard.

Aves 2 part "Apoxie Sculpt" is really good stuff. You have more working time than with Plumbers putty, and the Aves stuff is a lot finer, has the texture of wax when it sets up, only a lot harder of course. Great for finer detail work. Its better when you need to blend edges than the Plumbers putty would be.

These are just a couple of things I've used, but there's a lot more out there.

 

[exoray]

The "Bondo" brand stuff you get for cheap at Wal-Mart is just that cheap...

As for mixing it will set as long as you mixed properly even if you under hit it with catalyst, it will just need more time...

If you bump into the 'pro' grade body filers you will have much better results...

If you have a Sherwin Williams Automotive (note different then Sherwin Williams Paint) in your area then visit them as they will sell the pro grade stuff over the counter... It's made by Evercoat, the standard line is called Rage... If you can't find it locally order it online...

 

[micdavis]

Bondo is not intended for fine applications with no residuals.

That's what glazing putty and primer are for.

Remember these items are intended for car body repair, not scale modeling.

There are items meant for such things but frankly they are over priced for what you get because they are finer and are sold in completely different avenues.

 

[hankey01]

I use apoxysculpt for some applications. Its a 2 part clay that takes a few hours to harden. You can soften it by nuking it, and add water to smooth it.

WHen it hardens it is quite hard. Very difficult to sand so best to smooth is with went hands and get it right when you put it on.

I have also made a couple of raptor claws with mine. Stuff won't break!!!!

 

[swgeek]

As stated above "Bondo" brand body filler is crap. Evercoat makes some really good fillers. If you're trying to fill small holes I would go with a glazing putty or CA glue. http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=10

 

[bounty treasure]

Filling some small areas, but also trying to pick up some physical volume/substance in some areas (1/8-1/4" over a bit of a span on the project)

Briefly read the above posts (so sorry if this was covered)... Just had to peel/scrape the bondo off last time, that didn't set [mine's blue, not pink, for what that matters - It worked good on my HIC a while back, but setting me back farther than I was, as I'm actually trying to get this project going again, but have had two failed attempts...]

Just need to add and fill some spots (some sizable) - That will harden, be sandable/dremmelable, and able to take a coat of primer/paint to finish.

Static pieces, and no outdoor exposure, so any "Prop Materials for Dummies" help is appreciated.

I just really want to get these items off my basement shelves complete (there's a 3PO on deck too), but my daughters are of the age now and this would make a great project together.

Not trying to cut any corners - Just want what's best and easiest out there for such a task.

Thanks again all...

As stated above "Bondo" brand body filler is crap. Evercoat makes some really good fillers. If you're trying to fill small holes I would go with a glazing putty or CA glue. http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=10

 

[tim]

I've actually used spackling paste from the hardware store and gotten great results. It's easily formed when wet and readily sanded when dry. It is prone to crumbling, but I've found that not to be a problem after applying primer and topcoat.

 

[exoray]

Briefly read the above posts (so sorry if this was covered)... Just had to peel/scrape the bondo off last time, that didn't set [mine's blue, not pink, for what that matters - It worked good on my HIC a while back, but setting me back farther than I was, as I'm actually trying to get this project going again, but have had two failed attempts...

Well IMO body filler is your best choice, I have to question why you have had two failed attempts...

Is your 'bondo' old? If it is toss it in the trash and spend $20 on a new gallon...

Did you knead (mix) the catalyst before you squished it out of the tube? Same with the 'bondo' did you stir it up?

How are you mixing it, I suspect you are not getting a complete mix?

The 'preferred' way to mix it is on a flat clean surface, with a soft plastic scraper... Basically you fold it into itself over and over again rather then stir... If I was you I would get some new poster board (if you use used stuff you don't know what is on it) and also get yourself some of the plastic bondo spreaders... And then mix it on the poster board with the spreaders folding it into itself until you have a uniform color...

You can also mix in a little bit of polyester fiberglass resin to smooth out the 'bondo' although this will result in a slightly more gummy surface depending on the ratio... If you get a better body filler like Rage it will already be more creamy and smooth...

If you are mixing in a bowl, be carefull not to scrape the sides of the bowl when taking it out, there is a good chance of incomplete mixture on the sides of the bowl, best to stick to the center mass only... Although when mixing try your best to scrape the edges of the bowl to aid in mixing...

 

[micdavis]

There isn't a thing wrong with Bondo brand filler. Evercoat products are just more expensive versions of the same thing and if you're not aiming at car body type smoothness needed for a great paint job, it's a waste of money.

 

[exoray]

There isn't a thing wrong with Bondo brand filler. Evercoat products are just more expensive versions of the same thing and if you're not aiming at car body type smoothness needed for a great paint job, it's a waste of money.

Umm... Nope there is a world of workability difference night and day between the two products, as is the quality... As for a waste of money hardly the low end Evercoat Lite Weight is the same price as Bondo, so there is no waste of money... I personally pay about $3 more ($20) a gallon for Evercoat Z-grip... I'll gladly pay the $3 a gallon difference anyday for what I know from my own experience is a far superior product to work with... I have worked with several brands of body filer and Bondo branded is the absolute worst all around from workability, bonding, finish and sandability, at least get 3Ms more professional lines like Dynatron they are a step up... Evercoat products are pretty much the professional industry standard for a reason, Bondo might have been the first kid to the starting gate but they lost the race...

 

[swgeek]

Couldn't have said it better my self, so I'll just quote it.

Umm... Nope there is a world of workability difference night and day between the two products, as is the quality... As for a waste of money hardly the low end Evercoat Lite Weight is the same price as Bondo, so there is no waste of money... I personally pay about $3 more ($20) a gallon for Evercoat Z-grip... I'll gladly pay the $3 a gallon difference anyday for what I know from my own experience is a far superior product to work with... I have worked with several brands of body filer and Bondo branded is the absolute worst all around from workability, bonding, finish and sandability, at least get 3Ms more professional lines like Dynatron they are a step up... Evercoat products are pretty much the professional industry standard for a reason, Bondo might have been the first kid to the starting gate but they lost the race...

 

[micdavis]

Umm.....yep. But hey, knock yourself out.

 

[exoray]

hey, knock yourself out.

I would, if I forced to use Bondo...

Have you even had any real world experience and comparison of the two products? And I don't mean a little here or there but gallons of use? If so I find it incredibly hard to believe you can't and didn't notice the vast superiority of Evercoat...

 

[hankey01]

I used apoxy sculpt for my threepio seams too.

 

[micdavis]

I would, if I forced to use Bondo...

Have you even had any real world experience and comparison of the two products? And I don't mean a little here or there but gallons of use? If so I find it incredibly hard to believe you can't and didn't notice the vast superiority of Evercoat...

If I said 38 years worth, and experience with 100's of materials from milspec, resins & epoxies to vaccu-bagged kevlar lay-ups for military applications to Lost in Space Robots and clown noses. Would it really matter? Would it change your mind?

Perhaps you should let people just voice their opinions and stop trying to be Mr. Right ALL the time.

 

[exoray]

Perhaps you should let people just voice their opinions and stop trying to be Mr. Right ALL the time.

Look in the mirror... A lot has happened in advances in body filler in the last decade, and contrary to what you said the better formulas can't be called a waste of money because as you implied they produce a better finish for contrary to what you said the same price...

 

[Firefoxm31]

I also found that mixing(folding) on a metal plate( palette) allows the mix to last longer for application to the object...
Will

 

[GKvfx]

Both "Bondo" and the Evercoat "Rage" product are essentially the same thing. It's a two part system in which the catalyst (hardener) is mixed in to a base (putty) and the stuff hardens. These products have a wide latitude - the amount of hardener used will affect the time it takes to harden. Most people mix it according to the color of the hardener. A light shade (generally) takes longer to cure than a dark shade. Temperature, I've experienced, also plays a role. Point is, you don't need to get a scale out and get the ratios to within .01% or anything like that. Mix a lot of hardener, and it will set up darn quick (especially on a hot day). Use too little, and yeah, it may remain soft for a while. I've also been taught to stir up the gray stuff in the can before spooning out a glop to mix with the hardener. Sometimes the oils settle if it's been in a partially used can for a while.

I've found that the Evercoat Rage product is slightly finer grained than the Bondo. But it wasn't a big difference. Both were good for filling in large holes or gaps or dents or stuff like that. You can do a certain amount of feathering with either, but the sanded surface may look a little porous. I'm not talking about big bubbles, but tiny little ones. A thick filler primer (spray) will generally seal them up. If you are concerned about paint buildup on the surrounding surface detail, you may have to use another type of putty on top of the Bondo-type product.

Glazing putties (Bondo make a version, Squadron makes their own stuff, etc) are simple air-cure products. Once applied, they start to harden. That's it. The thinner you apply them, the quicker they dry. You cannot glop the stuff on thick and expect it to dry solidly in a short amount of time. The stuff shrinks a bit as it cures. Filling holes/seams may require a couple of applications. These putties feather better and have a finer grain than the Bondo-type stuff. You may need to prime the surface, but you won't use as much paint.

Two part putties like the plumber's putty or Milliput, or Tamiya two part epoxy putty is similar to the Bondo-like stuff in that it needs a catalyst to harden. But the two parts are like a soft clay that are kneaded together instead of a thinner putty that is stirred. The mix is 50/50, which is done by cutting equal lengths of this clay like strip. You will have a longer working time than the Bondo-like putty, and after it is mixed, it will be denser - like a thick clay. You can't trowel/spread it around like Bondo/Rage, but you can sculpt it. It will hold it's shape whereas Bondo has a tendency to level out because it's a lot thinner. Even though there is a chemical reaction taking place to harden the material, the cure time can vary depending on the product. Some will set up quickly (few hours), others take overnight. Shrinkage is minimal with this material. The grain of the material when sanded can vary, depending on the product. Milliput made some stuff that had a fine grain that was used for repairing porcelain.

I have not used the Apoxie-Sculpt product that was mentioned, so I'm not going to comment about it - but I have heard good things about it.

I've used other products to fill gaps/holes - resin, superglue/kicker, J-B Weld - it all depends on the materials and what you are doing with them after they harden.

I used spackle when I first got into model making and found that, for wood models was OK, but for anything plastic, it didn't have the "bite" to keep it secured to the material. Any flex and it would break off.

Hope this helps,

Gene

 

[bounty treasure]

bondo is not intended for fine applications with no residuals.

That's what glazing putty and primer are for.

Remember these items are intended for car body repair, not scale modeling.

There are items meant for such things but frankly they are over priced for what you get because they are finer and are sold in completely different avenues.

where would i find glazing putty?

And it sounds like bondo (or the likes) is available at wal-mart?

Got mine at an automotive store, but will check at wal-mart next time, if that's the case (in the automotive section i'm guessing)?