Hunk a Junk
Sr Member
I didn't know that was an old trick (or even a new one). If it's now canon that the ROTS ship was the "Sundered Heart" and not the Tantive IV, I'm good with that.
Bandai release schedule
- Thread starter TazMan2000
- Start date
I didn't know that was an old trick (or even a new one). If it's now canon that the ROTS ship was the "Sundered Heart" and not the Tantive IV, I'm good with that.
That's well within the range of many things from the 1/1000 yamato kit line so it shouldn't be a problem
Jaitea
Master Member
Well the trick is,....whenever people spot the difference between what a ship is supposed to look like & what the CG artist interpreted,... they make an excuse that it has a refit in the 20 year gap between trilogies
J
- - - Updated - - -
That would be nice
J
Lichtbringer
Master Member
Well, i wouldn´t put to much hope into it.
Regarding the above mentioned "Fans favorite" ..... i suggested the Tantive to a person in contact with Revells higher ranks (not sure how to explain it better without putting my hand into the fire).
The answer was a strange look at me and "You fans are strange. What ship? Now you get 2 of the iconic Stardestroyer, and instead of beeing satisfied the answer is asking for a ship only the diehard fans really know?"
It´s business for them, they look different at it than we fans. And i wouldn´t be surprised if under the line Bandai looks at it the same way.
That made me glad i still have 2 of the 1/350 resin kit Tantives in my stash.
Regarding the above mentioned "Fans favorite" ..... i suggested the Tantive to a person in contact with Revells higher ranks (not sure how to explain it better without putting my hand into the fire).
The answer was a strange look at me and "You fans are strange. What ship? Now you get 2 of the iconic Stardestroyer, and instead of beeing satisfied the answer is asking for a ship only the diehard fans really know?"
It´s business for them, they look different at it than we fans. And i wouldn´t be surprised if under the line Bandai looks at it the same way.
That made me glad i still have 2 of the 1/350 resin kit Tantives in my stash.
Well, i wouldn´t put to much hope into it.
Regarding the above mentioned "Fans favorite" ..... i suggested the Tantive to a person in contact with Revells higher ranks (not sure how to explain it better without putting my hand into the fire).
The answer was a strange look at me and "You fans are strange. What ship? Now you get 2 of the iconic Stardestroyer, and instead of beeing satisfied the answer is asking for a ship only the diehard fans really know?"
It´s business for them, they look different at it than we fans. And i wouldn´t be surprised if under the line Bandai looks at it the same way.
That made me glad i still have 2 of the 1/350 resin kit Tantives in my stash.
Bandai's target audience isn't the same as Revell's. Revell is looking for mass-market, make a quick buck. Bandai is a little more discriminating and knows there main audience is as well
an iconic ship that only "die hards" would want, again using the Yamato kit line as a benchmark...the Domelaze III
"Bandai once said it couldn’t be done; at this scale it would be too big and expensive for the average customer. A prototype existed for display at hobby shows, but that appeared to be the limit. Then came the 53rd All Japan Model Hobby Show in October 2013. Series director Yutaka Izubuchi, apparently wanting to rouse some rabble, polled the audience at a 2199 panel to see how many would buy it – and plenty of hands went up. Bandai’s 2199 model developer called his boss from that very stage to report the news. Fandom had spoken, and the wheels started turning.Nine months later, the baby has been born, and what a baby it is. Nearly 29″ long, it comes in a box big enough to require a handle and slides apart so it can be stored in two pieces. As of now, it is the single largest model kit you can buy from the series, beating the 1/350 Yamato by just over an inch."
Lichtbringer
Master Member
I´m sure there is a slight difference for a japanese company, selling it´s kits in Japan, between something with japanese roots ancored in japanese subculture ..... and something different with a few seconds screen appearance.
Hunk a Junk
Sr Member
A couple things. First, I have no doubt this is Revell's attitude because when it comes to Star Wars they're certified idiots. A comment like this one only proves they have little regard for their customers (hell, a more accurate word is disdain) and Disney should pull it's license. With rare exception, their Star Wars kits are toys. And bad ones. Second, Revell made kits of the Torrent fighter from Clone Wars and the Magna Guard fighter -- whoever this jackhole was, he's blathering out his rump-roast talking about "ships only diehard fans would know." Third, the Tantive is as much a "fan favorite" as the A-Wing, yet we've had those. Arguably, the Tantive got more screen time (a certainty if you factor in RO) and is in many ways more iconic (especially the 11 engine configuration). But we'll see. Bandai seems reluctant to do ships larger than the Falcon, but with their recent moves toward going smaller (like the U-Wing), maybe they'll find a scale that works for them.
Lichtbringer
Master Member
Well, the person you call a jackhole is at least no idiot that thinks such companies exist to please a handfull fanatic geeks. First and foremost it´s a business for them, they don´t exist to please fanatic modelers that glue stuff most people wouldn´t consider doing.
Even most model builders don´t take SF builders for serious, so why should the companies do more than to play safe? It´s a niche market.
Why should Disney pull the license, to please some geeks? The stuff sells good as it is, brings a lot of money in it´s actual market placement.
Overall, when Revell got the SW license, they got the "Toylike-license" - the kits needed to look not to good. Even the painting of the easy kits needed LFL approval, so the masters needed to be sent in before they could be shipped to china for showing the workers how to paint the kits. And if the masters looked to good and not toyish enough, no approval was given.
Even most model builders don´t take SF builders for serious, so why should the companies do more than to play safe? It´s a niche market.
Why should Disney pull the license, to please some geeks? The stuff sells good as it is, brings a lot of money in it´s actual market placement.
Overall, when Revell got the SW license, they got the "Toylike-license" - the kits needed to look not to good. Even the painting of the easy kits needed LFL approval, so the masters needed to be sent in before they could be shipped to china for showing the workers how to paint the kits. And if the masters looked to good and not toyish enough, no approval was given.
Lichtbringer
Master Member
It had to be within the bought license. License was (is?) tiered by quality and region.
If a company has bought the license for easykits with a certain quality, and would produce it´s kits with higher quality, they could affect the sales of another company that paid for the higher tiered quality.
More or less the same as with Anovos having a costume license, and another company having the same items as collector props license.
If a company has bought the license for easykits with a certain quality, and would produce it´s kits with higher quality, they could affect the sales of another company that paid for the higher tiered quality.
More or less the same as with Anovos having a costume license, and another company having the same items as collector props license.
Hunk a Junk
Sr Member
Why'd you have take a personal shot at me? Is this guy a relative? A good friend? If so, you should've said that up front. I didn't attack you. There's no call to get mouthy at me because I'm calling out some business executive who said a stupid thing. And it WAS stupid. They make Star Wars models. By definition ALL their customers are fanatical geeks. I am. YOU are. We ALL are. Geek is their market.
If it's so beneath them to make SF models, and they hold the people who might buy them in such low regard, why the hell do they even bother? If they consider it a niche market, obviously the consumers they're targeting are NICHE consumers! You know, the ones who might want a spaceship other than an X-Wing. You're arguing that they make models for a niche market, so they shouldn't be expected to make niche models. That argument makes no sense.
You also didn't address the fact that Revell has made some far more obscure Star Wars kits than a Blockade Runner, like the Magna Guard fighter, Torrent, and Ahsoka's Jedi fighter that was seen briefly in four TV episodes. If this businessman is claiming they don't do obscure subjects, he's either lying or blowing you off. Probably both.
Because geeks ARE the market! If Revell looks down on and doesn't care about the very consumers that are most likely going to buy the products, they're not doing their jobs.
Then explain the Kylo Ren shuttle model. That one isn't toy-like. Same for some of their TFA X-Wings. Not to mention the Fine Molds repops. If they're only supposed to be making not so good models, aren't those kits violating their "toylike" license?
Lichtbringer
Master Member
It´s no personal shot - one party thinks company decisions should be made by their wishes, the other purely does what they believe will bring money to the company and feed the employees. Do i like most of their decisions .... definately not. But i don´t think i know it better than they do what will serve them better.
They make SF kits, too. But their main range are standard kits like planes, tanks, cars, ships ........ and also those are more centered to the general builders than the high end customers (usually).
Most modelbuilders who are not into SF know/buy MF, X-Wing, Enterprise - that are also the iconical ships for many kids. I see that all the time in my model-club (I´m the only sf builder), if they build SF, it´s that. In all the years i´ve seen only one exception - one bought the 1/48 Space 1999 Eagle, he´s as old as i am and it´s childhood memories.
They needed to bring out a batch of different ships for clone wars - target was again .... kids. They build, they play, and when broken need a new one.
TFA is a whole new range, it looks like license is now given per object. And Finemolds and Zvezda ..... Revell hadn´t engineerd or produced any of those. Maybe they were just offered to distribute those to enable Disney having a additional piece of the cake (money) from items the original company wasn´t willing to pay the additional fees for other parts of the world.
They make SF kits, too. But their main range are standard kits like planes, tanks, cars, ships ........ and also those are more centered to the general builders than the high end customers (usually).
Most modelbuilders who are not into SF know/buy MF, X-Wing, Enterprise - that are also the iconical ships for many kids. I see that all the time in my model-club (I´m the only sf builder), if they build SF, it´s that. In all the years i´ve seen only one exception - one bought the 1/48 Space 1999 Eagle, he´s as old as i am and it´s childhood memories.
They needed to bring out a batch of different ships for clone wars - target was again .... kids. They build, they play, and when broken need a new one.
TFA is a whole new range, it looks like license is now given per object. And Finemolds and Zvezda ..... Revell hadn´t engineerd or produced any of those. Maybe they were just offered to distribute those to enable Disney having a additional piece of the cake (money) from items the original company wasn´t willing to pay the additional fees for other parts of the world.
That doesn't make sense though, how do you explain the "master series kits" and the "Level 2 kits".
I'm would think the simplified detail is mainly for ease of manufacturing and so they can reduce part count and age requirements.
The things like the oversized side walls on the "1/72" ish Falcon IIRC are simply because they use the same mold/master source that CODE 3 used, which in turn was based on the old MPC source because it actually had the same battery compartment switch (despite electronics being dropped way back in the MPC days) and the same R2 parts.
I actually find their proportions to be pretty good, its just the details that are often simplified.
It isn't just for Star Wars kits either.
Lots of their plane kits are the same way.
It just their business model.
As long as they make money on it, there is really no need to change, especially with the Bluefin deal bringing Bandai kits to the US
It would be nice if they would do more of the master series line though.
Also the Domelaze III had almost as little screen time as the Blockade Runner (possibly less even now with Rogue One and Rebels). It took off, and was blown up almost immediately all in the same episode. Probably less than 5 minutes total screen time. It's just mostly because of who's ship it was that made it so iconic
Dedalus5550
Sr Member
Why does this idea of special licenses related to kit quality keep going around as fact. As far as I know, it comes from one apocryphal story of one model rep saying this. And if I was a rep at a company making these crappy kits, that's what I'd say. Easy to say and you don't need proof--because you're not even allowed to provide it even if it existed. It's hard to imagine lawyers judging whether a kit is good enough or too good or whatever. But the real evidence is the kits and the prices (and I mean the retail prices, not the street prices which can be higher or lower). The prices of Fine Molds and Bandai SW kits is right in line with kits of comparable size, quality, and parts counts of kits that are not hampered by the same license issue. A really high quality kit of, say an airplane, that is on par with a Bandai/FM kit as far as all the important factors go costs right about the same. Really, you can't even find the slightest mark-up even though one there must be some kind of licensing fee. And many will say that Bandai took the level of detail, accuracy, quality, and parts count up from FM, and yet the kits are right about the same exact price. And one would think that another reason the SW stuff would be more is that scifi is such a smaller market than WW2 subjects or modern jets. Add to that regional limits making the market even smaller.
And, if you really want to believe in some sort of license based on quality or whatever, fine--I'll say this. "Revell: We are just fine with the quality, detail, accuracy, and COST of Bandai's SW stuff. So pay whatever that 'other' license is and do the same thing Bandai is doing. And then just look for all the holes in the market, the subjects that haven't been done, etc. Put you're money where your mouth is. Shut us all up. Or just admit that you're better at making crappy kits (what a paradox). Or, since you don't have the "good" license, let Bandai sell all over the world with their 'other' license."
And, if you really want to believe in some sort of license based on quality or whatever, fine--I'll say this. "Revell: We are just fine with the quality, detail, accuracy, and COST of Bandai's SW stuff. So pay whatever that 'other' license is and do the same thing Bandai is doing. And then just look for all the holes in the market, the subjects that haven't been done, etc. Put you're money where your mouth is. Shut us all up. Or just admit that you're better at making crappy kits (what a paradox). Or, since you don't have the "good" license, let Bandai sell all over the world with their 'other' license."
Lichtbringer
Master Member
It doesn´t matter if it makes sense to you or me, it´s just the way it is.
I learned that when Revell started with those easy kits. I have most of the ships named above as unpainted test shots, and funnily they look better that way than the items in stores after their prepaint - so i asked. There was no need to lie to me.
Nothing is their solely decision - each and every step/detail has to be approved, size, details, paint, and so on. LFL delivers the info to develope kit xyz, based on that they have to work and get the steps approved.
The above is about SW, i never really cared for the other models. But they have never been the top quality, more kits for the average builder. The different "Level" are more based on size and part numbers as a easy sign for the age and building skills of the buyer than based on accuracy and quality. The Master Series is not really Revell, just a re-release of Finemolds. No idea how and why they were offered that opportunity, but nothing of them is Revell other than the name on it.
I learned that when Revell started with those easy kits. I have most of the ships named above as unpainted test shots, and funnily they look better that way than the items in stores after their prepaint - so i asked. There was no need to lie to me.
Nothing is their solely decision - each and every step/detail has to be approved, size, details, paint, and so on. LFL delivers the info to develope kit xyz, based on that they have to work and get the steps approved.
The above is about SW, i never really cared for the other models. But they have never been the top quality, more kits for the average builder. The different "Level" are more based on size and part numbers as a easy sign for the age and building skills of the buyer than based on accuracy and quality. The Master Series is not really Revell, just a re-release of Finemolds. No idea how and why they were offered that opportunity, but nothing of them is Revell other than the name on it.
Lichtbringer
Master Member
Deadalus, you might think different if you painted the sprues for the paint master for China, had it sent for approval, and got it back with the order "to good, make a new simplified one and send it for approval again".
Dedalus5550
Sr Member
Like I said. Pay the higher fee and bring us models that are of higher quality and affordable--as others have done. And, boy, if people are cutting tooling and spending money to redo CAD drawings and such, it sounds like one of those "penny wise and pound foolish" things. Save on a license and spend more on redoing. If they can't afford to do it right, how can they afford to do it over and over again. The bottom line (and since we're talking about money, it is the economics textbook definition of bottom line) is they should be able do this. There is no evidence that whatever Bandai pays is making it hard to make good affordable models.
The reason was probably more of a cost factor that a "we have to make it look crappier because of our license" factor. It may have used too much paint, may have required extra steps etc.. all which impact the margin for profit
And as said, even if it is a license issue, then why not pay for the better license and produce Banddai quality kits. Many Bandai kits are as cheap or in some cases even cheaper than the Revell kits using a "cheaper" license
Like the Revell Y-wing. The MSRP is somewhere between $26 to $30. I can get the Bandai one shipped for free, on Amazon, from a third paty Japanese seller right now for $33 and it has probably 100s of intricate pieces with amazing detail vs the Revell one that has probably less than 10 pieces and all of the body detail molded in and simplified for molding purposes.
Just look. Bandai on left, Revell on the right
You can see Revell did a decent job of getting it looking right proportion wise, they just blew it by simplifying all the details to make it a low part count snap model
I hate to sound like I am bashing Revell, because I do like that they have taken a chance on some of the more obscure subjects and that they produce some larger size kits, but those comments about the die hards is kind of insulting from them
I say this. Revell's kits are generally a vast improvement over most of the old MPC/AMT/ERTL kits, but they just cannot compete with Bandai kits for nearly the same prices
