ANOVOS issues (ANOVOS ONLY discussion)

So if I understand this, we with back orders for products not available, are no longer entitled to our money back if we don't have a refund request in the system, now having to wait until they may or may not complete the product run to get a refund should we wish..... so they keep our money? Is this legal? I don't remember any disclaimer when pre ordering products that said the deposit/sale was final and the money theirs whether or not the product was delivered.
Making this the new policy today back dating to whenever cannot be legal.
 
The Refund Issue - ANOVOS Productions LLC

To quote their own language, I hope this “all sales are final” approach doesn’t backfire. Given their track record of deliveries, they will be hard pressed to take any more preorders when people can no longer request a refund...

Sean

Just saw that and...wow...

You know what Joe/Dana? The original policy should stand. If you want to cite an expected delivery of a six months or ayear from now and you can actually hold to it, that's fine. I'm sorry that using pre-orders to fund the production isn't working under the current system, but you flat out cannot expect people to invest in product that takes years to release.

You have things like the Han holster that took 3+ years to for people to get. Personally, my FO armor is closing in on 3 years. I get that the new policy just went into effect but there are still many others (not me) who've been trying to get refunds for many months now. Maybe that policy should be appended so refunds are possible after missed deadlines or something, i don't know.

I realize you started just doing runs in places like this and that delays aren't uncommon here, but people are kept in the loop on runs in places like this. You guys USED to do an excellent job of this, but abruptly stopped. I know it wasn't your personal choice, but people are substantially more comfortable when they feel they in the loop received updates/explanations. That level of involvement actually garners trust and gets people to commiserate WITH YOU when things get delayed as opposed to get mad about it.

I do understand this:
As an unintended consequence, cancelations of pre-orders caused a gradual shrinkage of overall production budget. Fewer pre-orders led to a number of issues including an increase in raw goods pricing, increase in per unit cost, a deprioritization of product (moving items to the back of manufacturing queue) and—in some extreme cases—the cancellation of items that no longer met the factory’s minimums. This not only elongated the manufacturing time for one project, but also other projects, causing a more systemic issue.

but at the same time, it's not the fault of those wanting a refund either. If i placed an order on, say, Dec, 1, 2017 with an expected delivery at the time of order of September 2018, I SHOULD NOT be expected to just deal with it until December 2020. I can understand a bit of delay, things happen, but not years worth. The quote is dead on that things are simplified when you can count a quantity and budget to work with, but it's not the people's fault when the timeline falls off a cliff. Using the example above, it's difficult for a lot of people to get out 600 dollars (or more depending on item) for 9-10 months. It's quite another to expect them to sit and smile when it goes multiple years. Things happen, people need money, but a zero refund policy screws those people when circumstances arise - family emergency, car/home repairs, etc. If that expensive item was on hand, it could be sold, but they can't do anything with a preorder slot.

I actually wonder/worry about the new policy to be honest. Will enough people be willing to foot the bill under the new policies (all, not just refund) -without any evidence that things will start shipping in a timely fashion - to enable future runs to go through and the reputation to start going back up?

These notices seem to say, we're sorry about how things have been going, but we're changing the rules to make things easier on us/simplify things and you'll just have to trust us that we think it will work.

Best of luck in the process, but it does not leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling, you know?
 
We will continue to honor any existing refund requests made prior to this policy change as business permits
“As business permits?”

It would seem that business should “permit” honoring the very same “Golden Rule policy” they had just finished detailing in their update, in a timely manner. Nothing less.

I think it’s probably unavoidable for them to stop accepting refunds on everything going forward. But the history of chronic delays, along with this new admission that sounds like: “we will do the refunds when we feel like it or have the money handy,” makes the decision to never order anything from them directly ever again quite simple.

Why call it a “Golden Rule” policy if it’s really made of tin?
 
The Refund Issue - ANOVOS Productions LLC

To quote their own language, I hope this “all sales are final” approach doesn’t backfire. Given their track record of deliveries, they will be hard pressed to take any more preorders when people can no longer request a refund...

That's it for me. I have several of their items and like them but since they started adding the extra Shipping and Handling fees, I haven't pulled the trigger on any additional purchases that I was interested in (had several in my cart multiple times but the extra fees deterred me). Now, with the safety net removed, they're not even going to make them into my cart. Disappointed.
 
This seems like a complete misunderstanding of why people are asking for refunds in the first place. I’m sure some just change their minds, but I’m guessing a huge, huge portion of refund requests is due to the problems laid out in their previous updates (delays, delays, delays.)

Fix the delays and there won’t be this issue. Doing this (all sales final) will just make everyone who was already skittish about placing a preorder even more skittish.
 
So if I understand this, we with back orders for products not available, are no longer entitled to our money back if we don't have a refund request in the system, now having to wait until they may or may not complete the product run to get a refund should we wish..... so they keep our money? Is this legal? I don't remember any disclaimer when pre ordering products that said the deposit/sale was final and the money theirs whether or not the product was delivered.
Making this the new policy today back dating to whenever cannot be legal.

Since you preordered before the 2019 date then you can still request a refund.

I agree with the unintended consequence blurb BUT it does not really apply t the problems they have. I have 9 items on order. If I had received 7 of those items throughout the last couple years I 100% would be fine with the other 2 pre-orders having issues and extended time lines. When you stop shipping a majority of items for a few years people get worried about their money and start requesting a refund.
 
Since you preordered before the 2019 date then you can still request a refund.

I agree with the unintended consequence blurb BUT it does not really apply t the problems they have. I have 9 items on order. If I had received 7 of those items throughout the last couple years I 100% would be fine with the other 2 pre-orders having issues and extended time lines. When you stop shipping a majority of items for a few years people get worried about their money and start requesting a refund.

I hope you are right, but the way I read it is all sales are "final 11Apr19".... followed by the statement if a refund is in process they will consider it. that sounds to me like if you haven't asked for one by now, it is too late to put one in since all sales are final.... I hope I am wrong.

I agree with you that is I had some percentage of back orders filled I, and I think just about everyone else, would be ok with this new policy and their path forward.
 
Well... The other shoe just dropped.
So now they will take your money in advance, give you no concrete timeline for delivery of the product, and after waiting 2 years and still receiving nothing you can not get your money back. You basically are buying a promise for something you may never see. This is asinine! ANOVOS - fund your productions with your money and not ours. This model of making only enough product to fulfill customer orders is inconceivable. As I've said before on this thread, what happens if someone needs to exchange something because it doesn't fit or is defective? You have no surplus inventory so they (as I had to do for my Han Gun Belt) have to wait as much as a year for another production run. That's a middle finger to your customer.

Furthermore - say goodbye to ANOVOS ever having anything "in-stock" with the exception of small items - pins, patches, posters. They clearly do not have the capital to order real product, helmets, blaster kits, costumes, etc from their manufacturers. That's not a good sign. With everything being essentially bespoke coupled with the new no-refund policy I would expect the company to fold by the end of this year.

Prove me wrong.
Steve
 
Since you preordered before the 2019 date then you can still request a refund.


That's not what they state though: "We will continue to honor any existing refund requests made prior to this policy change". Note that they state you had to make a refund request (not simply place an order) before the change!

I can't see this going over well with the current outrage. Folks (including me) will be wary of ordering new items until they've restored enough faith by delivering a lot of late items. When/if they manage to start clearing the backlog, it might level out. I hope they can pull through it- especially if they are now essentially holding a few thousand of my dollars hostage indefinitely.

In the beginning they were extremely generous with refunds and exchanges- in some cases paying for return shipping (even when they had done no wrong) and sending out a new copy BEFORE the old one was returned! My big question regarding refunds would be if the final product doesn't live up to the accuracy/quality or details ("might change" disclaimers notwithstanding).

And of course, the legality of it all if they actually intend to refuse refunds for orders placed before the 11th. It's their option to change the policy going forward- but if this effectively means everyone with currently outstanding orders are going to be refused refunds, I foresee major trouble- any hope of damage control during Celebration might go out the window. I really hope it's just sloppily worded on their part. Can they even do that legally?

Another thing that's interesting was " the majority of our items are produced to meet a minimum order quantity" which pretty much means that every product with a pre-order is essentially a kickstarter.
 


That's not what they state though: "We will continue to honor any existing refund requests made prior to this policy change". Note that they state you had to make a refund request (not simply place an order) before the change!

I can't see this going over well with the current outrage. Folks (including me) will be wary of ordering new items until they've restored enough faith by delivering a lot of late items. When/if they manage to start clearing the backlog, it might level out. I hope they can pull through it- especially if they are now essentially holding a few thousand of my dollars hostage indefinitely.

In the beginning they were extremely generous with refunds and exchanges- in some cases paying for return shipping (even when they had done no wrong) and sending out a new copy BEFORE the old one was returned! My big question regarding refunds would be if the final product doesn't live up to the accuracy/quality or details ("might change" disclaimers notwithstanding).

And of course, the legality of it all if they actually intend to refuse refunds for orders placed before the 11th. It's their option to change the policy going forward- but if this effectively means everyone with currently outstanding orders are going to be refused refunds, I foresee major trouble- any hope of damage control during Celebration might go out the window. I really hope it's just sloppily worded on their part. Can they even do that legally?

Another thing that's interesting was " the majority of our items are produced to meet a minimum order quantity" which pretty much means that every product with a pre-order is essentially a kickstarter.


This is exactly how I read the statement. A refund request has to be in the system for them to consider it. if not you are out of luck.
 
This line is pathetic:

For example, when a product had production issues and became delayed (as discussed in our earlier letter), we would push out the delivery date. This change caused some customers to cancel their orders, and in some ways, resulted in a buying habit of waiting until an item was in-stock prior to making a purchase. However, this “wait and see” behavior frequently backfired on the customer since the majority of our items are produced to meet a minimum order quantity, leaving little—if any—inventory available after pre-orders were fulfilled.

Backfired on the customer?! How dense can you be?! Yeah, of course they're going to f'n cancel when you constantly delay an item for years and provide zero explanation as to why.

Back in October, I received an email that one part of the costume I ordered was ready to ship and that I should update my address if needed.... then silence. Nothing. No update.... You people told me it was about to ship, and then you disappeared.

It took me searching through the website months later to find a random paragraph somewhere that stated this part of the costume would now be shipping when every other part was ready to ship. I had to search for the answer myself.

It's been two years since I ordered this Krennic costume. I didn't request a refund yet thinking that by the time the refund would be processed, the outfit would already be shipping. But now I'm more worried than ever that I'm never going to see it. And now if I have to wait another year or more for it, I can't even get a refund because now you decide to change the original terms of the preorder by making it final??!!

Gawd.....
 
I'm a little frustrated... I'd been advocating since early in the Star Wars product issues that ANOVOS modify what had been their usual business practice for the wider audience they were reaching with the new license. I'm recommending to them (again), and will restate here, what I think is the right way forward for them vis-à-vis purchases.

• I did and do like their tiered pre-order system to gauge interest while gearing up for R&D. I think something like that should be available still -- but that buying in is non-refundable. The return on your investment is the finished piece however many years later, and for less than retail. The non-refundability and probable dev time should be in big letters in several places before the buyer can commit.

• Then they should have the regular online retail sort of thing once they're getting stock: not listed until in-hand, sorted, packaged, and ready to go out; and then replacements, returns, and refunds per normal.

That way, those of us who understand the long lead time before they have something ready to go (and longer for a lot of the Star Wars stuff than anything they'd run into before with Trek or BSG) can pay and wait -- with varying degrees of patience/anticipation, and people who want the assurance of an in-stock item they don't have to wait for can get something more promptly, even if they have to pay more once it's actually in-stock. Even if they only do a couple of shipping days per week, that's do-able. I mean, there are still going to be Amazon-impatient types who start raising a fuss if the thing they ordered isn't on their doorstep within 48 hours of clicking "buy", no matter the advisories and such they clicked past without reading*, but putting those two things in place, parallel, should minimize that.

[*Have a friend who did Mass Effect armor who made it clear in the listing that he didn't commence until the order had been placed. They weren't just sitting around on-hand. He didn't have room for that. He had a very clear "will ship within two weeks of purchase" and always made that. But, of course, he had that one buyer who got pissy and demanded a refund when they hadn't received a shipping notice three days after ordering.]
 
The Refund Issue - ANOVOS Productions LLC

To quote their own language, I hope this “all sales are final” approach doesn’t backfire. Given their track record of deliveries, they will be hard pressed to take any more preorders when people can no longer request a refund...

Sean
That right there's a very Mobius strip situation.

It'd be nice if they actually did stick with the refund policy in the first place, instead of making customers go through their bank/credit card to file a claim after waiting months without receiving a refund.
 
I don’t think what they’ve written is actually that vague- what it says is that they’ll honor “existing refund requests made prior to this policy change,” (putting aside the absurd addition of “as business permits” for the moment.)

Both “existing” and “made prior to” are pointing to the same thing: requests that were made before today, but have not been fulfilled yet. Nothing even mentions “existing orders,” or “new refund requests on existing orders.”

I don’t see this going over well. Nor should it. Holding out hope that it’s just extremely poor wording choice, but the whole sentence structure would be wrong then.
 
I'm not even going to touch this one but for this:

I very much resent that they flat out state their current refund situation to be the result of SHARED blame between Anovos and its customers.

It is all their fault because of using reckless delivery "estimates" to manage the egregious wait times. You have to be very very naive to think that this would work.


News, Joe and Dana - when a company totally fails to deliver - ANY COMPANY - people stop going there!!!!
 
This is really disappointing to read:
"However, this “wait and see” behavior frequently backfired on the customer since the majority of our items are produced to meet a minimum order quantity, leaving little—if any—inventory available after pre-orders were fulfilled."

Meaning, it is your fault, as the customer who paid the money - but we didn't hold our end of the bargain due to the afomentioned problems - essentially hold you responsible for the outcome of the product line since you took your money back after years of waiting for them....

Man this is not cool.
 
With these last three announcements, their business isn't going to end well. Three nails in a coffin pretty much nails it shut...

...of course, Anovos will announce a pre-order for the ESB Boba Fett helmet, and 75% of the RPF members will be on the waiting list. :lol:
 

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