ANOVOS issues (ANOVOS ONLY discussion)

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Not entirely true,

The Star Trek Survival jacket is going on what 2 years possibly 3 years from “Pre=Order” to delivery.

The BSG TOS Jacket is going on a year iirc.

One of their reps told a Board member here that AFTER taking the Money UP FRONT for that jacket they had not procured a manufacturer for that jacket.

That in itself speaks to their hap hazard way of running a business.

Just get their money and figure it out along the way is NO WAY to run a business.

I agree -- but that is what I said they do. How was it "not entirely true"?

Inquisitor, you give more responsible updates on behalf of Anovos than they themselves do. But I don't see how it explains fake updates like in my example above. Shoot, I even left out the middle step of "safety testing" in my lengthy post. I can post it here but, to summarize instead, it went from 1.) March: everything done and ready to go - delivery in three weeks! to 2.) undergoing safety testing to 3.) Sept.: they have been sitting with the manufacturer this entire time and nothing has happened.

How many people here feel familiar with months of "safety testing"?

If anyone at Anovos takes any kind of a holiday break it would be offensive. Like seriously, no shame.

I agree with all of that. *sigh* I've said before that explanation is not excusing, and understanding (even limited) isn't forgiveness. I'm furious as hell at everything that's going on. But I'm trying to channel that into something that will get them on-game, rather than seeking to hurt and punish. I wince every time I see someone else post up that they're giving up and seeking a refund, because I know that's going to propagate through and affect who-knows-how-many other things, spurring more delays and refund requests.

Pursuant to both you and Apollo, quoted above you, one of the biggest things I feel they dropped the ball with early on was not being 150% more blatant with letting people know "we show you representative example of costume, you give us money, when we know we have enough interest we begin the R&D process, and at some point months or years down the road we deliver finished product" was the business model they'd been operating under for years. They have never had a Scrooge McDuck Money Vault they can draw on to make a thing before offering it up for sale.

Add in all the difficulties they've run into with the Star Wars license -- known and unknown -- and their typical production lag has been magnified beyond their ability to project. Ironically, I told a couple of the people I knew there back after they got said license to not project shipping dates at first. Not until they'd made a few full soft and hard ensembles to get a sense of the sorts of unanticipated snags they might run into that they hadn't before with their Trek or BSG stuff.

And, I'll be honest... It has never once occurred to me to give up and seek a refund for any of the things I have on order from them. I almost feel like I would rather they had a no-refund policy -- if only to see where things might be by this point if they weren't having to constantly scramble to fund Star Wars products that impatient Star Wars fans keep pulling their money out of. Yes, I am starting to worry I will never get my First Order Stormtrooper kit -- but because of other customers' actions rather than ANOVOS'.

If I end up writing to Chris at Lucasfilm, it'll probably be to say something along the lines of "Hey -- see if you can get Disney to cover their production costs so they can actually make good on their listings in the face of all the refunds they've been having to issue to people who didn't realize ANOVOS has always been a company we had to wait on." I want them to stay in business, I want them to be able to fulfill their commitments to me and others who are hanging in, I want them to be able to learn from what's happened and maybe, just maybe, get better and continue offering things we've never gotten before.

That's not what Anovos admitted to sometime ago. You must have some connection to Anovos to try and spin their bad behavior.

I was speaking as far as I knew. It would not surprise me if they raid a project that is under budget to try to get funds for one that's coming up short, but, in general, the funds raised for a project are only for that project. At least in policy, if not always practice. I can't speak to the latter, as I'm not in the finance meetings.

My connection is as its always been. I have friends who work there and who have worked for them on temporary bases. Star Trek side, BSG side. Star Wars side. Customer-service side. Attitude and trying to make it right go a long way with me. Everyone I know is doing their level best to get stuff moved out the door and make people happy. They themselves are customers as well as employees. It's why I vocally supported Cal as he was trying to get back on top of the avalanche, which he's pretty much accomplished. It's why I haven't gon back to Dan Laws, even though he managed to do the same. Attitude. Everyone I know there will be working through the holidays. Not sure if anyone will take time off, but... *shrug*

 

[Sean Hebein]

I almost feel like I would rather they had a no-refund policy -- if only to see where things might be by this point if they weren't having to constantly scramble to fund Star Wars products that impatient Star Wars fans keep pulling their money out of.

I hate the condescending tone you have taken here. ANOVOS told me that they would be shipping within weeks of me giving them $2100. I don't think it is unreasonable that I would be slightly upset that they haven't delivered almost 9 months later.

I want ANOVOS to succeed but their failures are their failures alone. Nobody is responsible for their business but them.

A no-refund policy? Wow, that is some next level ridiculousness. They wouldn't be having refund requests if they would just get better at communication and start sticking to their own, self imposed deadlines.

Coming close to the end of the season for the Kylo ensembles. Surely they know by now if they are going to be shipping or not. Would be nice to see at least some sort of communication coming from them.

 

[Apollo]

Correct me if I am wrong but you said the Star Trek and BSG soft goods rolled out smoothly with no problem and quite frankly they have not by the 2 examples I gave you.

As far as you worrying about not getting your First Order Storm Trooper kit because of other peoples actions and not Anovos, well I can not even begin to fathom your logic on that nor do I care to.

I will say this you have some seriously misguided priorities

I agree -- but that is what I said they do. How was it "not entirely true"?



I agree with all of that. *sigh* I've said before that explanation is not excusing, and understanding (even limited) isn't forgiveness. I'm furious as hell at everything that's going on. But I'm trying to channel that into something that will get them on-game, rather than seeking to hurt and punish. I wince every time I see someone else post up that they're giving up and seeking a refund, because I know that's going to propagate through and affect who-knows-how-many other things, spurring more delays and refund requests.

Pursuant to both you and Apollo, quoted above you, one of the biggest things I feel they dropped the ball with early on was not being 150% more blatant with letting people know "we show you representative example of costume, you give us money, when we know we have enough interest we begin the R&D process, and at some point months or years down the road we deliver finished product" was the business model they'd been operating under for years. They have never had a Scrooge McDuck Money Vault they can draw on to make a thing before offering it up for sale.

Add in all the difficulties they've run into with the Star Wars license -- known and unknown -- and their typical production lag has been magnified beyond their ability to project. Ironically, I told a couple of the people I knew there back after they got said license to not project shipping dates at first. Not until they'd made a few full soft and hard ensembles to get a sense of the sorts of unanticipated snags they might run into that they hadn't before with their Trek or BSG stuff.

And, I'll be honest... It has never once occurred to me to give up and seek a refund for any of the things I have on order from them. I almost feel like I would rather they had a no-refund policy -- if only to see where things might be by this point if they weren't having to constantly scramble to fund Star Wars products that impatient Star Wars fans keep pulling their money out of. Yes, I am starting to worry I will never get my First Order Stormtrooper kit -- but because of other customers' actions rather than ANOVOS'.

If I end up writing to Chris at Lucasfilm, it'll probably be to say something along the lines of "Hey -- see if you can get Disney to cover their production costs so they can actually make good on their listings in the face of all the refunds they've been having to issue to people who didn't realize ANOVOS has always been a company we had to wait on." I want them to stay in business, I want them to be able to fulfill their commitments to me and others who are hanging in, I want them to be able to learn from what's happened and maybe, just maybe, get better and continue offering things we've never gotten before.



I was speaking as far as I knew. It would not surprise me if they raid a project that is under budget to try to get funds for one that's coming up short, but, in general, the funds raised for a project are only for that project. At least in policy, if not always practice. I can't speak to the latter, as I'm not in the finance meetings.

My connection is as its always been. I have friends who work there and who have worked for them on temporary bases. Star Trek side, BSG side. Star Wars side. Customer-service side. Attitude and trying to make it right go a long way with me. Everyone I know is doing their level best to get stuff moved out the door and make people happy. They themselves are customers as well as employees. It's why I vocally supported Cal as he was trying to get back on top of the avalanche, which he's pretty much accomplished. It's why I haven't gon back to Dan Laws, even though he managed to do the same. Attitude. Everyone I know there will be working through the holidays. Not sure if anyone will take time off, but... *shrug*

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Correct me if I am wrong but you said the Star Trek and BSG soft goods rolled out smoothly with no problem and quite frankly they have not by the 2 examples I gave you.

Ah. I see. I meant smoothly in context of what we knew at the time. First order with them was back in '08 (I think), as part of the run of authentic first-season TOS velour fabric (back when they sold stuff by the yard and custom-tailored, not just standard-sized finished garments). But they still needed to have it custom-woven, and nail down the color and degree of sparkle. So I paid, and then six months later there was a package on my doorstep.

I don't know about the BSG side, so much, but I do remember Dave mentioning there were issues with the field coat last time I talked to him. I didn't really dig, as I've never liked that costume piece, haven't pre-ordered it, and had other things to address. I'll try and get a real update, there.

As for the rest, and what Sean said above you... When something is entirely dependent on customer backing to come to fruition and, after an initial investment, many of those customers remove their backing, it jeopardizes things. No judgment. Straight fact. I know what I'm getting into when I order from ANOVOS. If someone doesn't, I blame both parties. The seller for assuming people know how they operate, and not putting big caveats on each sale page... And the buyer for not researching the seller first, which I always do, and can't understand anyone who doesn't. It's easier than ever, thanks to the internet.

Yes, if ANOVOS had posted big boxes with flashing warning signs saying "This is a new area and license-holder for us. We're figuring things out as we go. No shipping date determinable yet. Costume shown is a proof-of-concept piece only. Final offering will probably differ in minor or major aspects, depending on how accurate an example we were able to get for the photo here. Development will only begin once we reach X pre-orders, and the funds associated with those are considered a non-refundable investment for research and tooling for manufacture. It might be months, it might be years.", they'd probably have gotten fewer pre-orders, but least the ones they got would understand what they were signing on for, and most likely not back out.

ANOVOS pretty much has no margin. So when people cancel their orders and demand refunds, it doesn't just mean they turn a lower profit this quarter. It means something might get delayed or canceled, or hourly staff get furloughed or fired. It has the very strong potential to bounce back and hit those with money still in. When people are told all this -- they're always a little slow, at the best of times; they've run into issues with this property they hadn't anticipated; they're not a big corporation like Hasbro with alternate revenue streams and clout with Chinese factories; lack of interest results in proposed products getting canceled; etc. -- and still cancel/seek a refund, I feel like it does affect me and those who are still waiting, and our chances of ever seeing what we ordered. Look up "run on a bank". Best way to make a company unstable is to convince people it's unstable. So yeah I take it personally, even though I don't work for ANOVOS.

 

[redrdr67]

I understand what Inquisitor Penguin is saying. I also understand the frustration from people that actually have money in the game. But I don't think it's right for people that don't have money in it to post non productive comments. Causing people to cancel(You're not helping). It's very likely things might be going smoother if so much freakin negative posts weren't posted. I'm still extremely grateful that we all are able to get really awesome Star Wars replicas, compared to what was available in the early eighties.
Seriously, this is meant to be a Positive post, again. I just don't have the ability to type as eloquently as IP.

 

[oblagon]

I'm still extremely grateful that we all are able to get really awesome Star Wars replicas,

I assume you're referring to all that SW vaporware Anovos ships out.

 

[darthjones]

I have $3k in with them and I like what Inquisitor wrote. I like what Sean wrote too but the only thing condescending are the Anovos updates (extremely so) and, when I bought the outfit in person I asked if I would have it for Halloween (I bought it in March - 3 years ago this coming March). And I believe it was Dana Gas himself who was all upbeat with, "oh believe me, we know people want them for Halloween! (with laugher and camaraderie)" And I was told that I might miss "one" Halloween.

THAT is condescending.

 

[Psab keel]

Whether you placed an order with them or not doesn't change the fact that people are entitled to their opinions.

Any negative opinions that people have, whether they are invested or not, are not likely to cause people to cancel orders.

I hope Anovos turns thing around. I sincerely do. Not just for the fans, but for themselves.

 

[Pepperbone]

Well, they're taking [2019] pre-orders for Luke's X-Wing helmet. That's nice.
I remember earlier this year when I pre-ordered Luke's X-Wing helmet.
I also remember pre-ordering Merrick's X-Wing helmet back in the Summer of '17.
Pre-ordering is fun!!!
...

 

[teecrooz]

Well, they're taking [2019] pre-orders for Luke's X-Wing helmet. That's nice.
I remember earlier this year when I pre-ordered Luke's X-Wing helmet.
I also remember pre-ordering Merrick's X-Wing helmet back in the Summer of '17.
Pre-ordering is fun!!!
...

I just saw that email also, but your reply had me laughing.

 

[patrickivan]

Ah. I see. I meant smoothly in context of what we knew at the time. First order with them was back in '08 (I think), as part of the run of authentic first-season TOS velour fabric (back when they sold stuff by the yard and custom-tailored, not just standard-sized finished garments). But they still needed to have it custom-woven, and nail down the color and degree of sparkle. So I paid, and then six months later there was a package on my doorstep.

I don't know about the BSG side, so much, but I do remember Dave mentioning there were issues with the field coat last time I talked to him. I didn't really dig, as I've never liked that costume piece, haven't pre-ordered it, and had other things to address. I'll try and get a real update, there.

As for the rest, and what Sean said above you... When something is entirely dependent on customer backing to come to fruition and, after an initial investment, many of those customers remove their backing, it jeopardizes things. No judgment. Straight fact. I know what I'm getting into when I order from ANOVOS. If someone doesn't, I blame both parties. The seller for assuming people know how they operate, and not putting big caveats on each sale page... And the buyer for not researching the seller first, which I always do, and can't understand anyone who doesn't. It's easier than ever, thanks to the internet.

Yes, if ANOVOS had posted big boxes with flashing warning signs saying "This is a new area and license-holder for us. We're figuring things out as we go. No shipping date determinable yet. Costume shown is a proof-of-concept piece only. Final offering will probably differ in minor or major aspects, depending on how accurate an example we were able to get for the photo here. Development will only begin once we reach X pre-orders, and the funds associated with those are considered a non-refundable investment for research and tooling for manufacture. It might be months, it might be years.", they'd probably have gotten fewer pre-orders, but least the ones they got would understand what they were signing on for, and most likely not back out.

ANOVOS pretty much has no margin. So when people cancel their orders and demand refunds, it doesn't just mean they turn a lower profit this quarter. It means something might get delayed or canceled, or hourly staff get furloughed or fired. It has the very strong potential to bounce back and hit those with money still in. When people are told all this -- they're always a little slow, at the best of times; they've run into issues with this property they hadn't anticipated; they're not a big corporation like Hasbro with alternate revenue streams and clout with Chinese factories; lack of interest results in proposed products getting canceled; etc. -- and still cancel/seek a refund, I feel like it does affect me and those who are still waiting, and our chances of ever seeing what we ordered. Look up "run on a bank". Best way to make a company unstable is to convince people it's unstable. So yeah I take it personally, even though I don't work for ANOVOS.

I have no bones in this, but following and reading about ANOVOS for quite some time, I have come to one conclusion. They don't follow through on their promised shipping dates.

Now when you blame the consumer for contributing to this horrible business model, you do nothing but absolve the seller of any responsibility.

I get it if there's an issue with a month or two. But months, plural, to years for some? And you don't expect people to want their money back at that point? And then blame the consumer for affecting Anovos' bottom line because they didn't provide what they contracted with the client to provide? Holy ****, that's an absurd thing to proclaim.

They're running a poor business model, and the only fault the customer has is to keep falling for their nonsense. I would NEVER pre-order anything from them. Ever.

 

[mluder]

Can't wait for my Han Solo Force Awakens jacket that I ordered back in March of 2017 to ship at the end of this week as promised.
It's going to be an awesome Christmas when I get that baby!








You know I'm being sarcastic, right?
That's 21 months if you're counting at home...

Cheers
Steven

 

[Weldon]

I ordered the Luke X-wing helmet early, the day it opened, and there are two days left in their current promised shipping window. I’d like to think that they’ll hit close, at least to thier promise but, based on what I’ve read here and elsewhere, it Sounds like they may have opened a second wave to pay for the first.

Kind of have to wonder who would order from a second wave when the first wave hasn’t even shipped yet? Maybe that’s why they opened the second just before the deadline for the first? Seems it would be better if they got a batch done, then could sell based on the “oohs” and “ah’s” of many happy prior customers.

 

[darthjones]

Since we have always been fair to Anovos - and I believe that everything in this thread is fair - they say "anticipated" shipping date HOWEVER: Twice now my product has said this: 1. Delivery in Spring (which I see as certainty/ promise) and now 2. Delivery in Fall (same). At the time I was like "whew, finally!" given their more certain tone.

I consider it a broken word, yes.

They otherwise always point to the "anticipated" and "subject to change" instead of getting a clue: But there is no way to miscalculate that poorly.

 

[Pepperbone]

Can't wait for my Han Solo Force Awakens jacket that I ordered back in March of 2017 to ship at the end of this week as promised.
It's going to be an awesome Christmas when I get that baby!

Steven, please share photos of your Christmas Solo Jacket extravaganza with the rest of us on Friday!!
I will also share photos of all those helmets arriving!! 2 more days!!
Gah! The "anticipation" is killing me!!!!!

 

[Sean Hebein]

I'll share pics of me in my Kylo gear! *sans helmet because that was postponed to Winter 2018*

 

[Weldon]

I don’t mind the “anticipated” and “subject to change” language, in principal. I understand that these things are not 100% predictable. However, they should have dramatically better predicted targets, such that missed targets do not happen, repeatedly for the same product/wave, as a matter of routine, which seems to be the case. They should also be able to do a much better job of keeping customers informed. For instance, the window deadline is 12/21, a couple days away, and they should certainly know by now if they are going to hit it or miss it, and by about how much (probably have known for some time), yet they have still not updated the shipping calendar or provided any notice to customers (that I’m aware of).

In contrast, I recently received my gen 2 graflex from the graflex shop. Seems like I ordered it forever ago and it took much longer than expected. But, I got emails and other updates regularly during various stages of production and completion - more than expected, but very welcome and reassuring. Other vendors I’ve dealt with, Todd’s Costumes being one other recent example, have been similarly exceptional as well. Anovo’s not only drops the ball, in this regard, they seem to have never had the ball to begin with.

 

[Sean Hebein]

I agree Weldon, they absolutely know what the status of this season's product and they probably have known for a while.

To quote Reggie from Anovos (September 4, 2018):

• The production of these items has been completed this season. We are awaiting notification from our manufacturer as to when these ensembles will be loaded upon a ship to be delivered to us, a journey that may take several weeks. As it is unlikely that these items will arrive to our Fulfillment Center prior to the end of the Summer season due to this transit time, this ensemble is currently on track to ship Fall 2018. Once I have a firm date that shipping to customers will begin, I will notify you in a separate update.

Over 90 days for a ship to go from China to Los Angeles..... I don't think so. You can look up container shipment times from Maersk and their transit times are about 12 days from Shanghai to LA. At my work we ship product via container ship and the longest I have seen it go is about 20 days.

Something is up, probably another delay. I hope I am wrong. Their lack of communication is maddening!

 

[darthjones]

There is a scenario too where Disney does not let Anovos post official progress reports because those reports might contain accounts of difficulty with a manufacturer. And reports of difficulty could vilify an entity such that libel might come into play, however unjustly. Also, obstacles at Disney or LFL would reflect badly perhaps on image or branding or whatever.

But here is my point - and maybe I'm reaching - but this leaves Anovos with the only choice, legally, of being actively unfair to its customers. Deliberately unfair by legal paralysis.

And so great damage is done to the image of Anovos.

SO - if Anovos has a license and can demonstrate that Disney policy itself has damaged their company, they can perhaps sue Disney or anyone preventing them from communicating or shipping product. And at this point, talking to us would jeopardize their case.

Still, the customer is held hostage by both sides.

Me, I will never buy anything from Anovos again unless it is sitting in front of me on a table for sale.

And I'd say a good dozen people I know have decided against major purchases at Anovos after speaking with me about my experience.

 

[Apollo]

There are quite a few things I would like to order from them, but I am certainly not going to finance their foolishness