ANH Vader chest box..think i've found the 'source item'

[Ghost Host]

Qui,
Never had any bad words with you bit this sure seems like you're trying to get something going with me. Why? I'm in the middle of a discussion about the base shape of the original anh chestbox. Unlike some here, I do not claim to know any secret info about how it was made. There are many possibilities, as I see it. The newell post is a good idea to consider. But, as others have pointed out, it may have been sculpted. I only answered someone else's question about any irregularities seen on it.
...And storming in? :confused What thread are you reading? My first agknowlegement of gino was my 3rd post, I believe, and it was laugher about his silly "read this" pic-post. Only after gino tried to blame me and others for his own bad attitude did I stand up for myself. I've really said very little in this thread, overall, but it seems odd to me that you are singling me out.

No disrespect intended here, GH, but what side of the fence are you on? In one breath, you came storming in all Anti-GINO and now you seem tp support his claim that it was NOT a Newell post. I mean it just seems argumentative for argument's sake because it was GINO who said it.

Now that you have pointed out the on-screen surface irregularities, people will say "Oh, I guess it was NOT a Newell after all. Ah well, the search continues."

I respect every single artisan on this board, who acts like they care a bit. You and GINO are artisans who care about the hobby AND the people you deal with. This just seems like a dogpile on the guy for being the first to say "Nope, not a Newell".

I am glad someone pointed to some evidence backing up his initial claim that it was not a found part.

 

[vaderdarth]

Now was that so hard???

Okay, I'm game, Who sculpted it???

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Qui,
Never had any bad words with you bit this sure seems like you're trying to get something going with me. Why? I'm in the middle of a discussion about the base shape of the original anh chestbox. Unlike some here, I do not claim to know any secret info about how it was made. There are many possibilities, as I see it. The newell post is a good idea to consider. But, as others have pointed out, it may have been sculpted. I only answered someone else's question about any irregularities seen on it.
...And storming in? :confused What thread are you reading? My first agknowlegement of gino was my 3rd post, I believe, and it was laugher about his silly "read this" pic-post. Only after gino tried to blame me and others for his own bad attitude did I stand up for myself. I've really said very little in this thread, overall, but it seems odd to me that you are singling me out.

For the sake of keeping the thread on topic...I've sent you a PM.

I doubt we will hear who exactly sculpted the piece, but does it matter at this point? It's easy to acknowledge that the piece was not vac formed, or from the Newell post. I will grant you that my knowledge of prop making is pretty minute, but if it is made of fiberglass, doesn't that eliminate using the post as a vac form mold?

 

[Ghost Host]

Got it and replied to. Thanks.

For the sake of keeping the thread on topic...I've sent you a PM.

 

[HAL9000]

If indeed this was sculpted from scratch then it wouldn't
be too hard to find out who the scuptor was. If you forget Freeborn's guys then there were not many sculptors on ANH at all. Just the Elstree contractor ones (like Muir and Moore).

Maybe John Mollo has an idea?

 

[vaderdarth]

Well, for this to be a hard fast fact...........Gino must know who it was. I'm all ears.

 

[JRX]

... lollol:lol...

 

[yakcam]

... lollol:lol...

:lol


This reminds me of the Vader threads of old, even before I was a member here. I know there's some tension but I just love watching some of the heavy hitters in the Vader world debating this stuff. It's the only way to learn.

Cheers,

Kraig

 

[vaderdarth]

I believe it to be sculpted as I've said already. But for us to just accept it in the world of props, it has to be verified by the guy who did the sculpture if you know what I mean? Otherwise it's just another really attractive theory.

Dave

:lol


This reminds me of the Vader threads of old, even before I was a member here. I know there's some tension but I just love watching some of the heavy hitters in the Vader world debating this stuff. It's the only way to learn.

Cheers,

Kraig

 

[kurtyboy]

I really can't be assed reading through 13 pages of posts,

...but what about the members who own castings from a screen used ANH chest box? Can't they shed some light on this? Such as exact dimensions, the surface texture and perhaps what the back looks like?

 

[vaderdarth]

Unfortunately all the castings that I've seen are solid resin. None have the back in the casting. Again, the surface is moderately smooth with some warpage, and goobers from the poor mould condition. One corner of the mould was torn pretty severely. It's very difficult to tell what was used as a prototype before moulding. No discernible wood grain or anything like that, but if it were finished properly, there wouldn't be. The top corners are all a bit different, in that no two sides have the exact same angles. But both hand shaped wood and hand sculpting could account for that. Crappy mould could account for the rest.

Dave

I really can't be assed reading through 13 pages of posts,

...but what about the members who own castings from a screen used ANH chest box? Can't they shed some light on this? Such as exact dimensions, the surface texture and perhaps what the back looks like?

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Unfortunately all the castings that I've seen are solid resin. None have the back in the casting. Again, the surface is moderately smooth with some warpage, and goobers from the poor mould condition. One corner of the mould was torn pretty severely. It's very difficult to tell what was used as a prototype before moulding. No discernible wood grain or anything like that, but if it were finished properly, there wouldn't be. The top corners are all a bit different, in that no two sides have the exact same angles. But both hand shaped wood and hand sculpting could account for that. Crappy mould could account for the rest.

Dave

You seem to be pushing the wood thing, so I am going to ask you. Can a wood mold account for the odd dimensions, or does that seem more in line with shrinking/hardening clay? Would it be easier to just pour a few chest boxes than to carve each and every one out of wood? The screen used boxes seem to lack the smoothness of ABS and, again this is my naivete here, but if you have a board, both sides are pretty well flat and smooth, right? So, wouldn't waves, the kind of which are seen on-screen a bit too far fetched from a finished piece of wood like a Newell post?

 

[ob1al]

I thought we had already established that the box was sculpted in clay then cast in fiberglass?

What remains is identifying the sculptor.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

You seem to be pushing the wood thing, so I am going to ask you. Can a wood mold account for the odd dimensions, or does that seem more in line with shrinking/hardening clay? Would it be easier to just pour a few chest boxes than to carve each and every one out of wood? The screen used boxes seem to lack the smoothness of ABS and, again this is my naivete here, but if you have a board, both sides are pretty well flat and smooth, right? So, wouldn't waves, the kind of which are seen on-screen a bit too far fetched from a finished piece of wood like a Newell post?

If you have seen the wrinkle work and odd shapes of some of the vac-formed recasts on eBay and even some of the fiberglass work... it can be pretty weird looking, if you know what the source was.

However... since we seem to be going with the clay sculpt and fiberglassing theory as to how they were made, there is really no point to press this issue.

And not all clays shrink when baked or hardens, iirc... depends on the clay. But shrinking clay could account for many of the odd shapes and measurements described regarding the screen used box.

 

[vaderdarth]

Honestly we haven't established anything without proof if you know what I mean? The claim of it being a clay sculpt is still a theory until proven conclusively.

I'm not pushing anything, I'm just saying wood and a clay sculpt could show the same irregularities. Especially if the wood is hand sanded and shaped. I know this because I've made about 20 wood chestboxes at this point. You are hand sanding and shaping on a belt sander and yes, you can end up with short sides and long sides and anything in between. Do you understand???

I still believe it to be from a clay sculpt as I've said earlier, but remember the motorcycle grip for the old ben saber???? We believed that for years until the proof walked in. So don't take my comments as anything except speculation. When I make a claim and call it fact, you'll know it.

For what it's worth, clay doesn't have to be hardened before it's moulded. In fact, if you are using plasticine.........it never shrinks. The wet clay is simply formed on a base and a mould is poured over it. The shrinkage will occur during the casting or possibly re-casting of it.

Dave

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Yes, I understand about the short and long sides, but why make an oddly measured out piece to begin with? Your sanding with a belt sander thing also does not cover the surface irregularities, only those seen on the sides.

 

[vaderdarth]

Yes, but you hand sand with plain pieces of sandpaper on the face............that can make higher and lower areas across the face if you know what I mean? You can't do it all on the belt sander sometimes. I do the heavy major sanding on the belt, but the rest is done with wet/dry sandpaper in my hands......especially after the sealer and bondo has been applied to give a smoother surface. That sort of thing Qui.

 

[defstartrooper]

I've not made anything with wood for years but i do know that if you are working with hand tools unless you are a really skilled experienced person it is next to impossible to get anything perfectly regular.
Hand sawing,hand planing,hand sanding its all damn hard.
I'm not saying they did use a wood blank but if they did then to me the irregularities are easy to understand.
Hell if they had used wood i doubt they would be overly worried if one side was 1/8th of an inch shorter or whatever as long as it looked ok on screen

 

[ArtisanProps]

Wow this Thread has had a lot going on just spent 20 min reading all of it (slow Reader:unsure) Now i remember way back about 3 years ago reading on the internet someone talking about the original and forgive my memory i was always more interested in the ESB info but, I Think they said that a picture frame was used or they made a picture frame out of wood and then filled the center with Plaster or something similiar untill it was leveled off and then cast it in fiberglass.. Now this might be why the shape is uneven, the shape whouldn't remain square unless there was something to give it stability like backing so untill it was filled it really could have shifted around and it also might explain why the surface is so uneven like some pictures of have seen before.. Now this is just something i read a while ago.. I have no Proof just thought i found it crazy that a Plaster filled picture frame could be what was used but, then again picture frames do have nice beveled edges.. Has anyone ever read this anywhere i'm kind of curious now as i tried checking the internet using Keywords to hopefully find the original post.. I didn't have any luck.. Sorry for the late post i know this thread has seen a lot of action.............

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

I'm with GINO on this one.

Clay, then mold, then fiberglass sounds like the rest of the hard parts on the costume to me.