Am I REALLY the only one disappointed with TFA?

Yes it was revealed. Vader was Lukes father.

The whole plan, everything Obi wan done for the last 20 years was to prevent Luke from being turned. The glance at Luke before giving in wasnt a special edition feature added later...it was always there. Because it wasn't about dying, it was about making sure Luke saw Vader kill. Ben knew full well that if Vader had shown up on Tattooine a month before and said "luke join me and we can rule the galaxy as father and son", Luke would've been packed and waiting in the shuttle before the sentence was ended. Obi wan saw what he had been looking for for 20 years: a rock solid way to make sure Luke would refuse Vader.
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Great stuff. But it's still a rationalization dreamed up after-the-fact. Good thing Luke didn't see it and go "Ben?!? WTF?!? Is this some kind of Jedi thing, you pick a fight with somebody and then quit swinging in the middle of the fight for the heck of it? Thanks for bailing out now, when we needed all the help we could get! You couldn't have, like, maybe wounded or killed Vader first or something? I guess since you obviously wanted to die I shouldn't hold it against Vader too much for obliging you."

Han wasn't only going out on that catwalk to redeem Kylo. He was trying to redeem himself too. Not to mention Leia & Luke. This evil brat is their mess, all three of them. It was a very human moment and I think it was hurt by the fact that we didn't see Kylo's backstory leading up to it.

We are the audience. We knew TFA needed to have a good villain, and the movie needed a third act, and the younger cast needed to save the day, and Harrison Ford wanted to get out of the Han Solo role. Han Solo didn't know any of that.
 
Jeyl said:
While I wouldn't say that Han's death was a complete failure, I do think the moment qualifies as 'a little bit expected and shallow'. For a moment that was meant to come off as huge and important, it's undermined by it's predictable set up (Bridge with no rails) and the fact that neither Han or Kylo have had any proper set up or adequate history about their relationship. It takes the whole 'father/son' conflict completely for granted and expects the audience to fully comprehend how torn apart Kylo is when we have nothing to go on. We don't know why Kylo chose this path, why he hates his father or why he wants this path so badly that he's willing to kill him for it. Luke trying to bring back Darth Vader (despite my opinion that Vader doesn't deserve redemption) worked because a huge chunk of the movie featured scenes with Luke trying to win him over. There are moments where they fight, there are moments where they just talk, and there are moments where they go into full rage mode.

And as you mentioned, his death really only serves the new characters who aren't bad guys. If Han's death is still going to have any impact on Kylo Ren, it needs to expand on what their relationship was and why he did those things. But if these new movies continue to be paced like TFA, I just don't think that kind of character development will ever happen.
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We actually are given quit a bit regarding how Kylo and Han have come to this bridge and have this encounter. The dialogue between Han and Leia provide a lot of exposition regarding how they lost Kylo and we are also given the meta knowledge that Snoke was a major influence in them loosing their son. We have most of the reasons, we juts don't know the details yet. Act 1 of a 3 Act play has been completed.
 
When I originally saw TFA, I was massively disappinted, in fact it was partly responsible for ruining my Christmas!
However, went to see it again, and absolutely loved it. Total reversal of all my initial moans.
Maybe if any haters give it a second try, they may be pleasantly surprised.
 
The Wook said:
Here's how I would've written it:

Sometime early in the film, I'd have it established in dialogue that the Falcon has been modified over the decades, including the addition of a small 2-man Escape Pod. We wouldn't see it used, just referenced, and it would hardly be noticeable on the ship's exterior design.

Fast forward to the climactic battle of the film. Han and Chewie are attacking the bad guys' base, super-duper weapon, whatever, in the Falcon, alongside the rest of the rebel/resistance fleet. Han's flying the Falcon from the cockpit, and Chewie's in one of the gunners, shooting down TIE Fighters. (How cool would THAT be to see Chewie swiveling around in that chair, taking out TIE after TIE after TIE! Btw, no one would use the gunner earlier in the film.) But even with Han and Chewie kicking butt in the Falcon, the rebels are hopelessly outnumbered, losing badly, and down to just a few ships. The following dialogue ensues:

Commander at Rebel Base: "General Solo, the battle is lost, we only have a few ships remaining, get out of there while you can. Live to fight another day!"
Han Solo: "Commander, we may not have another day. I'm flying her right into the detonation point, it's the only way."
Commander at Rebel Base: "GENERAL SOLO, DON'T BE A FOOL! ABORT MISSION! ABORT MISH..."
Han Solo: [Han flips switch to turn off communication with base, and says in a mumble to himself] "I know what I'm doin'."
Han Solo: [Han flips another switch, and shouts to Chewie] "CHEWIE, MEET ME AT THE ESCAPE POD, WE'RE GETTING OUT OF HERE!"
Chewbacca: [Roars argumentatively as if to say] "WHAT ABOUT THE FALCON?!"
Han Solo: [Flipping other switches and turning dials and pressing buttons] "I'VE SET HER TO FLY INTO THE DETONATION POINT, DON'T ARGUE, MEET ME AT THE ESCAPE POD!"
Chewbacca: [Roars defiantly as if to say] "SHE'LL NEVER MAKE IT!"
Han Solo: [Flips a few more switches as he starts to get up] "SHE'LL MAKE IT! NOW GO!"
Chewbacca: [Pulls headset off and roars as if to reluctantly say] "OKAY, I'M GOING!"

[Han and Chewie are shown running out of their areas, and running through the ship, bouncing off walls, and meeting at the Escape Pod.]

Han Solo: "CHEWIE, HURRY, GET IN!"

[Chewbacca roars in agreement as he steps into the pod. The door slams shut behind him and he spins around, lurching at the door, pushing against it with all his might. Han is on the other side of the door. Chewie roars against the window between their faces, steaming it up momentarily, his teeth clanking against the glass. Han looks at Chewie, pained this will be the last time he'll see his best friend of 50 years. Chewie starts wailing like he did when Han was lowered into carbonite, still trying to muscle the door, pawing at the glass between his face and Han's. Han reaches up placing his right palm on the glass where Chewie's hand is, and then with his other hand, Han slowly reaches to press the button to detach the pod. Chewie, wailing in pain, and the pod, detach from the Falcon. Han runs to the cockpit, resumes manual control of the ship, and flies it acrobatically through a maze of TIEs and stationary guns, into the detonation point, and saves the galaxy.]
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That sort of thing happens in Doctor Who every week

I preferred it the way it was

J
 
Jaitea said:
That sort of thing happens in Doctor Who every week

I preferred it the way it was

J
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Doctor Who?! :wacko Oh good grief. Nobody gives a crap about Doctor Who. We're talking about STAR WARS, and HAN SOLO and CHEWBACCA, and a farewell befitting them, and the MILLENNIUM FALCON!!!

The Wook
 
The Wook said:
Doctor Who?! :wacko Oh good grief. Nobody gives a crap about Doctor Who. We're talking about STAR WARS, and HAN SOLO and CHEWBACCA, and a farewell befitting them and the MILLENNIUM FALCON!!!

The Wook
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What I mean is that the idea is very similar to storylines that I've seen in TV serials,...its very cliched

What we got.....(by Kasdan, Abrams & Arndt,....people who do this for a living).....is original,...artistic & has deep meanings which will echo through the future films

My advice is, stop analysing & imagining what could have been,...the film is here & has been hugely successful,..let go of the anger....relax & think of something else

J
 
Bryancd said:
We actually are given quit a bit regarding how Kylo and Han have come to this bridge and have this encounter. The dialogue between Han and Leia provide a lot of exposition regarding how they lost Kylo and we are also given the meta knowledge that Snoke was a major influence in them loosing their son. We have most of the reasons, we juts don't know the details yet. Act 1 of a 3 Act play has been completed.
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The way the film presents it, it feels more tacked on than natural. Oh, it was Snoke's fault that Ben turned towards the dark side? You'd think that being part of the First Order, the genocidal group of space nazis lead by Snoke would have made that point clear to both of them. And now, after everything that has happened, Leia wants to bring her son back? Umm, we've seen Kylo torture and murder people on screen with no sign of hesitation or regret. From my point of view, having our heroes try and bring him back is just wrong. He's done nothing to earn that kind of development from either either the story's point of view or the audience. He's... a... bad... person... If the movie wanted me to believe there was some good in him, having him only do bad things is not the best way of doing it.

If the movie is telling us that we should accept Ben coming back to the light side, than why stop with just Ben? Why not bring Snoke back? Or Hux? Or all of the First Order? If we're willing to forget and forgive everything that has happened, why not? It would make as much sense.
 
The choice the creators made, patricide, is profoundly more disturbing then some remake of Armageddon. Kylo killed his father because he believed it would extinguish the pull of the Light but he fails. After Han's death Kylo doesn't become invincible and one with the Dark. He is still struggling. While Rey discovers the Force, both light and dark, and clearly touches both. Good stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Jeyl said:
The way the film presents it, it feels more tacked on than natural. Oh, it was Snoke's fault that Ben turned towards the dark side? You'd think that being part of the First Order, the genocidal group of space nazis lead by Snoke would have made that point clear to both of them. And now, after everything that has happened, Leia wants to bring her son back? Umm, we've seen Kylo torture and murder people on screen with no sign of hesitation or regret. From my point of view, having our heroes try and bring him back is just wrong. He's done nothing to earn that kind of development from either either the story's point of view or the audience. He's... a... bad... person... If the movie wanted me to believe there was some good in him, having him only do bad things is not the best way of doing it.

If the movie is telling us that we should accept Ben coming back to the light side, than why stop with just Ben? Why not bring Snoke back? Or Hux? Or all of the First Order? If we're willing to forget and forgive everything that has happened, why not? It would make as much sense.
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The movie isn't suggesting that at all by the end, your personal experience watching it not withstanding. Just because you feel it was tacked on doesn't mean it was.
 
Jaitea said:
What I mean is that the idea is very similar to storylines that I've seen in TV serials,...its very cliched

What we got.....(by Kasdan, Abrams & Arndt,....people who do this for a living).....is original,...artistic & has deep meanings which will echo through the future films
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You call TFA "original"?! The protagonist is a parent-less teen from a bleak desert planet, who has the Force but doesn't know it, finds a droid who was given secret information vital to the good guys by one of the good guy agents, meets an old man mentor who tells the teen about the Force, goes on an adventure with him to save the galaxy, and watches him die from a red lightsaber wielded by a darkside-of-the-Force-using intimate relation of his who's wearing a black cape and black mask and speaks with a modulated voice box.

You're right, Jaitea...Kasdan, Abrams, and Arndt really came up with something original for us. They must have, afterall, they get paid to do this for a living--unimpeachable evidence, if I ever heard any, that they always produce creative, imaginative and original story-telling.

The Wook
 
You're not reading my post right...or not understanding what I mean,....the death of a huge character killed by a close member of his own family is something that we have never experienced before in these films....the way it was portrayed, lit & shot is a million miles deeper than having Han go out in a cliched 'Blaze of Glory'

J
 
Bryancd said:
Of course but overall positive reaction to the film would indicate my position is the more accurate read of how the story was presented. So there's that..

Sometimes opinions can be wrong.
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Too often these last two decades, the opinions of the masses are wrong. TFA being the most recent misguided opinion of the masses.

The Wook
 
Jaitea said:
You're not reading my post right...or not understanding what I mean,....the death of a huge character killed by a close member of his own family is something that we have never experienced before in these films....the way it was portrayed, lit & shot is a million miles deeper than having Han go out in a cliched 'Blaze of Glory'

J
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I felt nothing when Han died. Most people I know, who are bonafide Star Wars fans (just as you are, I'm sure), felt nothing. Never have I been asked to mourn a more empty, emotionless death.

The Wook
 
Jaitea said:
....the way it was portrayed, lit & shot is a million miles deeper than having Han go out in a cliched 'Blaze of Glory'
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Exactly this.

The lighting alone during the scene was so compelling. For many who hadn't noticed, I implore you to go back and observe the scene. Don't just watch it, sit there and observe.

Kylo's face is beautifully lit in the beginning, half blue, and half red. They're showing the duality of the light and dark side in him. As we proceed further into the scene, the red starts to take over. It's showing you the internal battle he is facing... Tension is building. Finally, the red takes over, signifying the dark side has won.

It was an absolutely beautiful moment. Every single theater I was in (I saw it three times) the crowd fell deathly silent during the scene, and uttered a completely shocked gasp when Han was killed. You can say you've seen it coming all you want, Hell even I knew it was coming , but it was STILL a very powerful, beautiful scene.

It's absolutely not something I'd have expected. Sure the masses may want a dumbed down blaze of glory so they get their fill of 'SPLOSIONS!!!11!! Well, go watch a Michael Bay "movie."
 
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