AA Stormtrooper Helmet Question

[jvasilatos]

Too many threads filled with too much legal mumbo jumbo. What I would like a straight answer to, is...

What is the beef people have against AA and why does it seem there is a lynch mob here that hates him for making the helmet available? Is it a quality issue, or is it because it competes with other guys making them "underground"?

I seriously don't get it and see so many threads arguing the legalities where people seem to have it in for him. Why is this if he was responsible (legal interpretations aside) for making them for the ANH production in the first place? What is the real grievance regarding those against him vs. those defending him? Or is it just about arguing the legalities of his claim?

JV

 

[Trallis]

sds threads nowadays are only frequented by the long time sds arguers who have been in it since the beginning. its not surprising that you havent been able to figure out what everyone is talking about, because it ha really gotten down to alot of specifics. I will keep it simple in hopes that this thread wont be more than just an explanation.

Those who are pro SDS say he is:
-the original sculptor of the ANH helmets
-the original maker of the ANH helmets
-has the original molds and makes his current helmets from them
-if he doesnt have the original molds it doesnt matter because he was the original maker and therefore he is only taking from someone else who ripped off his original work

Those who are anti-SDS say he is:
-lying to make sales and has no original molds
-may not be the original sculptor
-has no rights to the helmets just because he was the original maker, because he is ripping off people who worked hard and put alot of money into acquiring and making castings of original screen used helmets
-simply recast a replica helmet and markets it as from the original molds, and is therefore not different from any other recaster which this forum shuns

quality issues: some say they are extremely nice, some say they are very soft and quite innacurate. what is more important is whether they are different from the originals and whether it matters or not if they are accurate(maybe he has updated the original molds, or maybe he doesnt have them, or maybe he tried to disguise an obvious recast by editing it). these things are all debatable.


this could be 1000000 times more detailed because there have been that many points and counterpoints throughout the debates. it is an argument over the ethics of an act, but the problem is, it has not been decided what the act is that is being argued about. there is a court case between LFL and SDS over the rights to the helmets and whether they are indeed from the original molds. Although the debate has really gotten out of hand it is quite serious at the same time. My advice to you is make your own decision. I hope ive given you enough information, and i've tried not to sound biased in the way i explained it.

 

[JRX]

... I don't got all too much of it either, but the way I understood it the core of it all
was the following (correct me if I'm wrong please):

AA said his Stormtrooper Helmets and armor come from Original Stuff but it appears
he lied about that and re-cast another Prop makers helmet and Armor to create
what he is now selling as the real deal ... that's (in very short) how I got it :confused :confused

I do have the Stormtrooper Stunt, Hero and the TIE Fighter Helmet myself, and I do
think they look great, plus they come from the man who made them for the movies,
so I just take them as a great piece of Star Wars memorabilia, and I'm happy with them
that way ... I know they are not perfect though, but a great addition to my collection.

 

[jvasilatos]

Thanks for the clarification guys.

I guess it all comes down to people who have to have something from the original molds or not then.

Personally, I'd love one from the guy who originally supplied them from the original molds or not... it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing since he supplied them for ANH and whether he has the original molds or not, I think he would be considered an expert.

But I understand those who feel he misled them if the molds are indeed not the originals... but molds decay and break down and need replacing, so if he upgraded or created new ones and they look screen accurate, then WTF is the problem.

I have a GF suit and helmet and the helmet is discoloring and I may need to get e replacement sometime in the future and whne that happens I think I'd like an SDS "hero" version with the rounded lenses and it looks like his fits the bill replacement wise.

JV

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Trallis - excellent and unbiased (seriously) appraisal of the situation. It seems we all sit on one side of the fence or the other, but its good if we can at least agree on some things.

JRX - I dont think anyones suggesting he recast another propmakers helmets. Armour yes.

JV - I also agree with your post. I think damage to the moulds could explain some of the differences (ie the back, the undercut)

Cheers

Jez

 

[jvasilatos]

<div class='quotetop'>(BingoBongo275 @ Oct 1 2006, 10:39 AM) [snapback]1329774[/snapback]</div>

Trallis - excellent and unbiased (seriously) appraisal of the situation. It seems we all sit on one side of the fence or the other, but its good if we can at least agree on some things.

JRX - I dont think anyones suggesting he recast another propmakers helmets. Armour yes.

JV - I also agree with your post. I think damage to the moulds could explain some of the differences (ie the back, the undercut)

Cheers

Jez
[/b]

And all plastic is prone to some warpage... to imagine all helmets will look like a specific photo of a screen used helmet when there were so many used in the film is kind of unrealistic.


JV

 

[PantheraGem]

Jvasilatos, thanks for asking the question. Trallis, thank you for the summary. Now that I've driven my Vader ANH helmet collection into the ground, I would like to get a trooper helmet in the near future. I don't even know where to begin. It's nice to get a little background on this controversy. Thanks.

 

[Gytheran]

AA 100% lied about exactly what he was selling. It started as "molds in perfect shape" to "molds needed very minor cleanup" to "molds have been slightly modified".

Despite what some people will say, in vacuforming, certain details will NEVER change. They may be softer or sharper from pull to pull, but the geometric shape NEVER changes. If you notice(if you ever get to see a straight on shot), the left rear trapezoid is not straight like it should be. None of the screen used helmets we've seen exhibit the feature as the SDS does. Only one helmet we've seen looks that way and that was the Christie's helmet with the corrugated(and round) rear tube.
Another feature is the rear tube. The SDS is round, whereas the screen used originals are not. Again, the only helmet we've seen with a round rear tube was the prototype.

Another issue is AA, with his highly questionable reputation, has failed to support ANY of the claims surrounding his helmet. He outright refuses to show images of his "original mo(u)lds". This, with the details matched to the prototype helmet suggests he has simply taken the Christie's prototype helmet, recast it, and is passing it off as from the "original mo(u)lds".

So what does that mean? He has potentially scammed hundreds(if not a thousands) of people, making a killing with an illegitimate product.

And this is just the helmet...

Then you have the armor, which AA recast parts of other people's suits to make money.

He has also been caught lying under oath, was caught recasting MR's training remote stand and selling it with his helmets and continues to snub his nose as general business ethics in order to "make a buck".

 

[Emeldahay]

YAWN.

 

[DARKSIDE72]

These are all the reasons I based my negative opinion of AA on. Also for myself when the real comparison pictures rolled in and pointed out the glaring problems I was like WTF? I'm not buying that...

The bottom line again is AA flew right into the LFL radar on purpose, ignored the C&D has been shady from the beginning and deserves what he has coming to him. All AA ever was to the production of SW was a hired hand to vacuum form. No other worker for the production of any of the films has attempted to glean any wares from SW. And for good reason, they don't have the rights to do so as they were PAID to do a job for a film production. Some however find this really difficult to come to terms with. Either because they had their hand directly in the cookie jar or because they refuse the believe the $800 they shelled out is in fact not what the claim to original origin as they were misled to believe.
The squealing and speculation on the subject is endless.





<div class='quotetop'>(Gytheran @ Oct 1 2006, 08:32 AM) [snapback]1329815[/snapback]</div>

AA 100% lied about exactly what he was selling. It started as "molds in perfect shape" to "molds needed very minor cleanup" to "molds have been slightly modified".

Despite what some people will say, in vacuforming, certain details will NEVER change. They may be softer or sharper from pull to pull, but the geometric shape NEVER changes. If you notice(if you ever get to see a straight on shot), the left rear trapezoid is not straight like it should be. None of the screen used helmets we've seen exhibit the feature as the SDS does. Only one helmet we've seen looks that way and that was the Christie's helmet with the corrugated(and round) rear tube.
Another feature is the rear tube. The SDS is round, whereas the screen used originals are not. Again, the only helmet we've seen with a round rear tube was the prototype.

Another issue is AA, with his highly questionable reputation, has failed to support ANY of the claims surrounding his helmet. He outright refuses to show images of his "original mo(u)lds". This, with the details matched to the prototype helmet suggests he has simply taken the Christie's prototype helmet, recast it, and is passing it off as from the "original mo(u)lds".

So what does that mean? He has potentially scammed hundreds(if not a thousands) of people, making a killing with an illegitimate product.

And this is just the helmet...

Then you have the armor, which AA recast parts of other people's suits to make money.

He has also been caught lying under oath, was caught recasting MR's training remote stand and selling it with his helmets and continues to snub his nose as general business ethics in order to "make a buck".
[/b]

 

[TK765]

<div class='quotetop'>(jvasilatos @ Oct 1 2006, 09:34 AM) [snapback]1329759[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for the clarification guys.

I guess it all comes down to people who have to have something from the original molds or not then.

Personally, I'd love one from the guy who originally supplied them from the original molds or not... it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing since he supplied them for ANH and whether he has the original molds or not, I think he would be considered an expert.
[/b]

He didn't know what he was doing and needed help from TE, Gino and I think even Jez and a few others to figure out what to do. Hes' no expert on trooper stuff since he somehow forgot everything after working on one of the biggest movies in history. If it wasn't for Fan assistance the helmets would look even worse than they do now.

<div class='quotetop'>(jvasilatos @ Oct 1 2006, 09:34 AM) [snapback]1329759[/snapback]</div>

But I understand those who feel he misled them if the molds are indeed not the originals... but molds decay and break down and need replacing, so if he upgraded or created new ones and they look screen accurate, then WTF is the problem.
[/b]

They don't look screen accurate, this has been covered ad nauseum. Besides thats not how he sold them originally, they were mint molds supposedly. Many sent money in advance to get low # helmets on the very few pics provided, with almost none showing the back and also no good side views. It wasn't untill they started showing up did people realize they had been taken. Many tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but the evidence finally pointed to him recasting left over after production scrap parts that had been altered for some reason.

It was asked if he would refund the money of helmets sent back to him, his response...

No, it was too late.

<div class='quotetop'>(jvasilatos @ Oct 1 2006, 09:34 AM) [snapback]1329759[/snapback]</div>

I have a GF suit and helmet and the helmet is discoloring and I may need to get e replacement sometime in the future and whne that happens I think I'd like an SDS "hero" version with the rounded lenses and it looks like his fits the bill replacement wise.

JV
[/b]

Unfortunately the AA stuff is the same yellow color of a discolored GF plastic, so no luck there.

 

[Jumpin Jax]

<div class='quotetop'>(BingoBongo275 @ Oct 1 2006, 03:39 AM) [snapback]1329774[/snapback]</div>

JRX - I dont think anyones suggesting he recast another propmakers helmets. Armour yes.[/b]

I am. The TIE helmets are suspect, apparently AA had access to yet another fan-made, oh correction TE armor suit: TIE armor and chest box. AA copied the stormtrooper, don't even tell me he suddenly became too decent to recast the TIE as well.
<div class='quotetop'></div>

JV - I also agree with your post. I think damage to the moulds could explain some of the differences (ie the back, the undercut)[/b]

No. He doesn't have the molds. I'll keep saying it because it is true.
JJ

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

<div class='quotetop'>(Jumpin Jax @ Oct 2 2006, 09:58 PM) [snapback]1330696[/snapback]</div>

I am. The TIE helmets are suspect, apparently AA had access to yet another fan-made, oh correction TE armor suit: TIE armor and chest box. AA copied the stormtrooper, don't even tell me he suddenly became too decent to recast the TIE as well.
JJ
[/b]

Huh?

AA has only made the TIE helmet. He's not produced a Chest box. Or are you saying you know in advance that he's recast someone else's work.

Wow you guys are good, you even know of wrong doing before it happens. :rolleyes

Cheers

Jez

 

[DARKSIDE72]

ignored a C and D
was served a lawsuit
was found in default
lied about emailing people in the US
lied about advertising in the US
lied about the molds
lied about his role in the original production
recast MR's stand
recast armour

Why would we expect him to do further wrong doings? :angel

 

[Gytheran]

Hell, half of his ST helmet is recast or scratch built...

The only thing stopping AA from joining the RPF is the fact he'd be banned for recasting and scamming...

 

[Jumpin Jax]

<div class='quotetop'>(BingoBongo275 @ Oct 2 2006, 03:12 PM) [snapback]1330703[/snapback]</div>

Wow you guys are good, you even know of wrong doing before it happens. :rolleyes

Cheers

Jez
[/b]

What can I say? It's getting predictable
Cheers,
JJ

 

[Lord Abaddon]

JV - Trallis did an excellent job of summation for the entire thing. Both sides are definitely entrenched in their feelings are there is some rampant passion, but what Trallis outlined is the unbiased facts of the two sides and their argument.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[Jumpin Jax]

<div class='quotetop'>(Lord Abaddon @ Oct 2 2006, 07:28 PM) [snapback]1330848[/snapback]</div>

JV - Trallis did an excellent job of summation for the entire thing. Both sides are definitely entrenched in their feelings are there is some rampant passion, but what Trallis outlined is the unbiased facts of the two sides and their argument.

Good luck in your decision.
[/b]

:rolleyes

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

<div class='quotetop'>(Jumpin Jax @ Oct 2 2006, 10:38 PM) [snapback]1330722[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(BingoBongo275 @ Oct 2 2006, 03:12 PM) [snapback]1330703[/snapback]

Wow you guys are good, you even know of wrong doing before it happens. :rolleyes

Cheers

Jez
[/b]

What can I say? It's getting predictable
Cheers,
JJ
[/b][/quote]

Seriously JJ, you're suggesting AA has recast TE's chestbox and yet no-ones even seen AA's chest box. Dont you think you're jumping the gun a bit?

Cant you see the other side of the argument where everything AA does is seen as wrong, irrespective of the facts?

Cheers

Jez

 

[Jumpin Jax]

<div class='quotetop'>(BingoBongo275 @ Oct 2 2006, 11:48 PM) [snapback]1330923[/snapback]</div>

Seriously JJ, you're suggesting AA has recast TE's chestbox and yet no-ones even seen AA's chest box. Dont you think you're jumping the gun a bit?<div class='quotetop'>

Fine, show me the AA chestbox.
[/b]

Cant you see the other side of the argument where everything AA does is seen as wrong, irrespective of the facts?
[/b][/quote]
He is wrong because of the facts. They condemn him completely. He stated outright to customers that he didn't even build the helmet in their hands, nor paint them after stating that these were to be entirely his handiwork. The lies pile up, and truth only seems to come from those that oppose his practices. He recast other's work, made false claims about his role in the original process, and did a great job promoting his products by not telling the truth. There is no defense for this activity. I'm done shouting about it, I have no more reason to be angry. AA violated a lot of people's trust, and by trying to mollify them with double talk rather than at LEAST owning up and apologizing, he continues to show such disrespect. Legal or not, in this industry/art there has to be some kind of honor code.
JJ