4 Hales and a Booster

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Dang this is so cool to read, didn't know you had so much experience with relics.

Pardon my short messages, I sprained my neck badly so I'm on my phone

I forget we've seen brazing on that ANY prototype saber. Is it possible that they brazed the grenade to a spacer inside the balance pipe and were just sloppy about it?
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I also was originally thinking the grenade I had was sealed in the 60s or 50s. As part of a misguided restoration
 

newmagrathea

Sr Member
Just watched the disassembly video, the sort of thing I've been doing for the last 30yrs. Some observations:

As you've found out files make poor tommy bars.

As I say above thread lock wasn't available until the 1950/60's.

I've researched a lot old rusty things in museums & first hand, under certain rust forming conditions & esp in soil, rust can form with a glossy surface which is usually very hard but also people do apply varnish. Varnish tends flake, wear or can be cut off to normal looking rust underneath the glossy rust doesn't. Yours looks like glossy rust & probably a field find.

That same grenade looks like it's been through a slightly dodgy dealer & I'd ascribe the brass paint to 'restoration'. This sort of thing gets done by certain antique dealers to 'dupe' the less savvy buyer into thinking somethings in better condition than it is. Sometimes it's just a non-collecter owner wanting to spruce things up. I've met it before & say it's unlikely to be a factory thing.

You could do with a proper bench vice, or if you have one some slip on or magnetic jaw pads. I'm tight so use scrap aluminium angle. You can exert more pressure than with wood. Only down side is sometimes you end up with ally smears but these usually clean off. I have also used copper & lead depending on how delicate or not the item is.

As you know using heat to expand metal can work. Sometimes this needs to be done several times, each cycle helping crack the rust. In extreme cases & if no damage is likely to result I go to red heat. However hot I always quench in oil (usually motor oil) as when hot this can penetrate the joint. Sometimes though you just have drill out as you did.

Finally a tip I only learned recently (from a slightly dodgy antique dealer). If you have a lot of rust shake loose, esp from hard to reach places, use electrolysis. You need a small 'bath' for the electrolyte which is just acidified water, some of that vinegar will do just fine. A little caustic soda works too but that's an alkali. You need a battery with leads - he said 12v car type, I've used a motorcycle mains battery charger as it had crocodile clips, A decent Lipo should work too. The rusty part is attached to the positive lead (anode) & a piece of metal (I used copper water pipe) at the negative lead (cathode). It's very effective. So effective you have to be careful you don't start eating away good metal so keep an eye on it. The rate will depend on how strong a current you are using so I can't be more specific than that except to say no over nighters, you might have nothing left in the morning.
It's the basis for electroplating too - metal being removed from the anode metal & deposited at the cathode.
There's another caution - no ignition sources near either - pref. outdoors. Gas is produce from the metal parts, oxygen & hydrogen & in perfect proportion to go bag if allowed to build up in a confined space. It would take quite while to get to that stage but it's something you need to take into account - so a double no over nighters. Just have ventilation & regular checks every few mins or so to start so know how fast things are going & you should be fine. It's no more dangerous than charging a lead acid wet battery but those same warnings are given for the same reasons.

Liver of sulphur paste or solution (warm) gives an excellent dark patina to brass & copper.



As I have said elsewhere you can't weld unlike metals together eg brass to steel they just won't do it. You can braze (brass soldering), silver solder or lead/tin solder.

Hope some or all of that is of use.
Thanks for the info, I'll take all the help I can get. I actually have a big 5 inch vise that I picked up for free a little while back, you might be able to spot it sitting on the floor in certain shots. The vice is useable but it needs a bit of work and I need a good place to mount it. I plan to do a restoration on it soon.

I heated and chilled to metal a few times but it didn't seem to help, I'll keep the quenching in oil in mind for next time.

Actually I have a few videos where I do electrolysis, but since I couldn't get the neck off I didn't want to do that since there are two different metals. I wouldn't want to give the brass a surface of iron/steel. And I've heard that brass does not do electrolysis well.
 

The Ninja

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Here is the latest video. It's a long one, just over 30 minutes. I personally don't like doing long videos like that but I didn't want the illusion that this was a quick and easy process, even still I only used a tiny fraction of the video I shot.

Awesome result Dustin the finish looks amazing given the difficulties we had getting this sucker apart (y) you can send your vintage Obi my way ;)
 
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Mouse Vader

Well-Known Member
I never know how much knowledge the other person has so just put it all down in the hope that some of it may be useful. The alternative is to say nothing & guarantee to be of no help at all. It's there for others to read who may also not know those things. The risk is sounding preachy & a know it all. 'No good turn goes unpunished' is the saying - not always true.

Do get that vice set up I'd be lost without mine (with a set of safe jaw faces too).

Watched your new vid, I know you said you thought it would be quicker than it was, but may I recommend a chemical paint stripper for next time.

Interesting results with the Ally black compound. Liver of sulphur will give you a rich brown colour that you can take very deep. Stinks though.

Is that birchwood 'super blue' you used ? - can't quite read all the label. I've never had much luck with cold blacks in the past inc. birchwood but that looks to work fairly well. Their plum brown (applied hot) gives an excellent & hard wearing dark brown to iron/steel if you ever have need of such.

didn't know you had so much experience with relics.
I've had my fingers in so many pies over the decades it scares me. Firearms, musical instruments, period clothing - all sorts. Not good with the internal combustion engine or electronics (I can follow circuit diagrams etc but can only design basic stuff like for the motorised graffy - domestic wiring etc).

I got a little confused about the thread lock with the other guy's soldier prank theory. Heat destroys locktite at about 160 deg C so the release agent was prob superfluous but I know some jobs drive you to distraction. Hope the rest are easier.
 

newmagrathea

Sr Member
I never know how much knowledge the other person has so just put it all down in the hope that some of it may be useful. The alternative is to say nothing & guarantee to be of no help at all. It's there for others to read who may also not know those things. The risk is sounding preachy & a know it all. 'No good turn goes unpunished' is the saying - not always true.

Do get that vice set up I'd be lost without mine (with a set of safe jaw faces too).

Watched your new vid, I know you said you thought it would be quicker than it was, but may I recommend a chemical paint stripper for next time.

Interesting results with the Ally black compound. Liver of sulphur will give you a rich brown colour that you can take very deep. Stinks though.

Is that birchwood 'super blue' you used ? - can't quite read all the label. I've never had much luck with cold blacks in the past inc. birchwood but that looks to work fairly well. Their plum brown (applied hot) gives an excellent & hard wearing dark brown to iron/steel if you ever have need of such.



I've had my fingers in so many pies over the decades it scares me. Firearms, musical instruments, period clothing - all sorts. Not good with the internal combustion engine or electronics (I can follow circuit diagrams etc but can only design basic stuff like for the motorised graffy - domestic wiring etc).

I got a little confused about the thread lock with the other guy's soldier prank theory. Heat destroys locktite at about 160 deg C so the release agent was prob superfluous but I know some jobs drive you to distraction. Hope the rest are easier.
No I really appreciate sharing of info, it's why I started making the videos was to document my process and learn. That's why I show most of my mistakes and set backs, what not to do is the best lessons.

Yeah, the vice is near the top of my list of things to work on.

I considered a chemical paint stripper, but I didn't have it on hand when I had time to work on it. I did wind up going to the hardware store to get more wire wheels, I should have picked some up then. Oh well.

I've not worked with liver of sulphur, it sounds like it would smell horrible. I'll have to get some to play with sometime.

Yep, Birchwood Casey Super Blue, I've had really good luck with it on several projects now. It definitely takes better and darker if you have recently used a light abrasive on the surface.
 

mugatu

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Damn it, man. Just really sat down and watched this (your most recent video post) through all the way the other night and you have inspired me to take a crack at my current relic (thanks a lot, ya bastard!).
The one I have is far beyond this one in terms of general condition with major areas of decay and degradation. Most cubes are not intact fully. A hole or two all the way through to chewy center... quick question: I saw you got some brass brush wheels and your outcome is obviously incredible; have you ever used/tried the carbon steel bristle ones? I picked some up as the brass bristels weren’t really cutting through all of the rust on my pineapple.
Also, how did you get all the bristles out of your clothes before putting them in the wash? Or did you just wash them like that?
 

newmagrathea

Sr Member
Damn it, man. Just really sat down and watched this (your most recent video post) through all the way the other night and you have inspired me to take a crack at my current relic (thanks a lot, ya bastard!).
The one I have is far beyond this one in terms of general condition with major areas of decay and degradation. Most cubes are not intact fully. A hole or two all the way through to chewy center... quick question: I saw you got some brass brush wheels and your outcome is obviously incredible; have you ever used/tried the carbon steel bristle ones? I picked some up as the brass bristels weren’t really cutting through all of the rust on my pineapple.
Also, how did you get all the bristles out of your clothes before putting them in the wash? Or did you just wash them like that?
Glad I could be an inspiration. :lol: I did wind up switching to steel wire wheels, and they do work better, I also found the cone wire wheels pretty handy too. I'm not sure that I ever got all of the bristles out of my clothes but I used some painters tape and pressed it on my shirt to lift out the bristles. I think a lint roller would work well too. I think next time I'll wear a hat and a full face shield.
 

newmagrathea

Sr Member
You inspired me too! after seeing the job you did there... it got me excited to improve mine!

I re-did the perma blue and polished the neck. (the perma blue turned the neck brown, so I polished it back to brass. maybe I'll grab some AB for the lower neck... maybe)
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Good to know about the permablue reaction on brass, I figured it would do something.
 
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