Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. Got it in hand PICS PAGE 7
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TheRealFennShysa
Well-Known Member
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. Thoughts?
Hooooooly crap - those are gorgeous....
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Chief Bast
Well-Known Member
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
Talk about icing on the cake. Good job of adding the provenance, Brad. What an outstanding grouping for $450.00!
And yes, the cherubs are absolutely stunning.
Talk about icing on the cake. Good job of adding the provenance, Brad. What an outstanding grouping for $450.00!
And yes, the cherubs are absolutely stunning.
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
I doubt it. Since another member here has the exact same piece I want to preserve the originality of this piece. Only if we both decide to do a run then maybe, but I want to enjoy this piece for a while.
Thanks Guys. Now I wait for it to arrive!!
Brad
I doubt it. Since another member here has the exact same piece I want to preserve the originality of this piece. Only if we both decide to do a run then maybe, but I want to enjoy this piece for a while.
Thanks Guys. Now I wait for it to arrive!!
Brad
Darth Niob
Sr Member
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
I still cant believe that you got it for only 450 USD !!!!:eek The guy would have been easily get 2500 USD for more. Again congrats to this very very cool prop. And the cherubs really look awesome too.
I still cant believe that you got it for only 450 USD !!!!:eek The guy would have been easily get 2500 USD for more. Again congrats to this very very cool prop. And the cherubs really look awesome too.
Garthok
Sr Member
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
I have to agree and say regardless of its history, it is a very nice piece and I would feel very happy with getting it for that price. No matter what it turns out to be you already have a good story to go with it..great find!
Also, you may want TheRealFennShysa to change his copied pic to one with your watermark
I have to agree and say regardless of its history, it is a very nice piece and I would feel very happy with getting it for that price. No matter what it turns out to be you already have a good story to go with it..great find!
Also, you may want TheRealFennShysa to change his copied pic to one with your watermark
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
I believe this is the fourth or fifth Ra Headpiece that I've seen come from Elstree over the years (I've been collecting original props for 9 years and follow things quite closely).
If your Grandfather had sold a piece for $60,000 and had another similar item there is no way he would knowingly let his Grandson sell it for a few hundred bucks. It doesn't make sense.
As previous posters have mentioned, the reason that Elstree / the Harrisons are selling supposedly great items in this manner is that there is no other avenue for resale, due to the questionable items that have been sold in the past.
I believe this is the fourth or fifth Ra Headpiece that I've seen come from Elstree over the years (I've been collecting original props for 9 years and follow things quite closely).
If your Grandfather had sold a piece for $60,000 and had another similar item there is no way he would knowingly let his Grandson sell it for a few hundred bucks. It doesn't make sense.
As previous posters have mentioned, the reason that Elstree / the Harrisons are selling supposedly great items in this manner is that there is no other avenue for resale, due to the questionable items that have been sold in the past.
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
Congrats! Great SCORE. AWESOME piece. I know the feeling since I just aquired a CS hat from Steve Delk using the SA leftover materials used to make the film hats.
Nothing like the real thing.
Enjoy. How are you going to display it?
Congrats! Great SCORE. AWESOME piece. I know the feeling since I just aquired a CS hat from Steve Delk using the SA leftover materials used to make the film hats.
Nothing like the real thing.Enjoy. How are you going to display it?
bigbaddaddyvader
Well-Known Member
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
Listen to Dave you shall.........seriously guys this man knows his bones.
I have to say I am somewhat surprised by the remarks about how some now think this has solid provenance.Again I am not disputing that you have a nice headpiece (it clearly is) and the value for something is what someone is willing to pay but I just think that stating that this IS a production piece given the history of Norman and Paul Harrison,their former company Elstree Props and the legal difficulties they have had with Lucasfilm and the many,many examples of outright fraud that I have first hand experience of with them is inherently problematic.
Knowing personally exactly what Paul and Norman Harrison's words are worth and how much stock to put in anything that comes from them I find it odd that a letter from Norman and a picture of him with said piece constitutes acceptable provenance.
Furthermore does no-one else find it odd that they apparently do not like people selling stuff on for profit but they are extremely comfortable with selling endless items like this when they were Elstree Props and they had previously consigned to Profiles?Anyone here remember the R2 dome that they tried to sell through Profiles and was pulled and subject to legal action from Lucasfilm?
I think it would just be wise to treat this as a nice headpiece and nothing more unless you can prove through means other than the word of the Harrisons that it is a genuine production piece.
Listen to Dave you shall.........seriously guys this man knows his bones.
I have to say I am somewhat surprised by the remarks about how some now think this has solid provenance.Again I am not disputing that you have a nice headpiece (it clearly is) and the value for something is what someone is willing to pay but I just think that stating that this IS a production piece given the history of Norman and Paul Harrison,their former company Elstree Props and the legal difficulties they have had with Lucasfilm and the many,many examples of outright fraud that I have first hand experience of with them is inherently problematic.
Knowing personally exactly what Paul and Norman Harrison's words are worth and how much stock to put in anything that comes from them I find it odd that a letter from Norman and a picture of him with said piece constitutes acceptable provenance.
Furthermore does no-one else find it odd that they apparently do not like people selling stuff on for profit but they are extremely comfortable with selling endless items like this when they were Elstree Props and they had previously consigned to Profiles?Anyone here remember the R2 dome that they tried to sell through Profiles and was pulled and subject to legal action from Lucasfilm?
I think it would just be wise to treat this as a nice headpiece and nothing more unless you can prove through means other than the word of the Harrisons that it is a genuine production piece.
Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
I can really appreciate what you are saying, BBDV, but your words are going to fall on deaf ears. Fyfe is happy with the piece. The pictures of Harrison with the piece, and next to the Ark Angels is cool. That's really all there is to it. He is not going to Sotheby's to sell this headpiece, he is keeping it for himself. So, the provenance - at least to me - does not matter a bit. Owner happy=good deal in my eyes.
You guys have the knowledge, you and omp uk, but in this instance, the words are wasted. It just comes off as you trying to poo poo on Fyfe's purchase. Even if it lacks provenance, it still has better detail than other "replicas" of the like. THAT is why Fyfe bought it...and he is happy. Now, if he should try to sell it to an auction house or the like, then you unload with both barrels of the knowledge shotgun. Right now, it is just chest thumping.
I can really appreciate what you are saying, BBDV, but your words are going to fall on deaf ears. Fyfe is happy with the piece. The pictures of Harrison with the piece, and next to the Ark Angels is cool. That's really all there is to it. He is not going to Sotheby's to sell this headpiece, he is keeping it for himself. So, the provenance - at least to me - does not matter a bit. Owner happy=good deal in my eyes.
You guys have the knowledge, you and omp uk, but in this instance, the words are wasted. It just comes off as you trying to poo poo on Fyfe's purchase. Even if it lacks provenance, it still has better detail than other "replicas" of the like. THAT is why Fyfe bought it...and he is happy. Now, if he should try to sell it to an auction house or the like, then you unload with both barrels of the knowledge shotgun.
Right now, it is just chest thumping.
PHArchivist
Master Member
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
Agreed. As valid as the points (brought forth by BBDV and OMP) may be, that expression about closing the barn door after the horses already got out seems to apply.
Its all good info, but at this stage, its a little late in the game, and hence purely acedemic.
Personally, I'd place this item in loosely the same category as perhaps a Morgan whip, or a Rickprops J2 - not a genuine article, (and in this case perhaps questionable if even made for the production), but nonetheless one made by the same hands and to the same standards as the production pieces. For the amount Brad paid, considering these factors, I think its a pretty good buy.
Brad is jazzed, and that is what counts.
I can really appreciate what you are saying, BBDV, but your words are going to fall on deaf ears. Fyfe is happy with the piece. The pictures of Harrison with the piece, and next to the Ark Angels is cool. That's really all there is to it. He is not going to Sotheby's to sell this headpiece, he is keeping it for himself. So, the provenance - at least to me - does not matter a bit. Owner happy=good deal in my eyes.
You guys have the knowledge, you and omp uk, but in this instance, the words are wasted. It just comes off as you trying to poo poo on Fyfe's purchase. Even if it lacks provenance, it still has better detail than other "replicas" of the like. THAT is why Fyfe bought it...and he is happy. Now, if he should try to sell it to an auction house or the like, then you unload with both barrels of the knowledge shotgun.
Agreed. As valid as the points (brought forth by BBDV and OMP) may be, that expression about closing the barn door after the horses already got out seems to apply.
Its all good info, but at this stage, its a little late in the game, and hence purely acedemic.
Personally, I'd place this item in loosely the same category as perhaps a Morgan whip, or a Rickprops J2 - not a genuine article, (and in this case perhaps questionable if even made for the production), but nonetheless one made by the same hands and to the same standards as the production pieces. For the amount Brad paid, considering these factors, I think its a pretty good buy.
Brad is jazzed, and that is what counts.
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MattMunson
Master Member
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
For the price he is charging, IMHO, it is clear as day that this is not a made for production piece. I agree with the sentiments that if they sold a real one for 60k, why on earth would they sell the next best thing for 450??? They're just not that stupid.
HOWEVER, for 450, it's a REALLY nice looking replica! I think if someone was offering those on the board for that price, you'd have a number of takers.
So if you're happy with the price, and you're happy with the piece, I think that's great.
But I have no doubt in my mind that it's NOT an original MFP piece. No big deal though
Either way, great find!
For the price he is charging, IMHO, it is clear as day that this is not a made for production piece. I agree with the sentiments that if they sold a real one for 60k, why on earth would they sell the next best thing for 450??? They're just not that stupid.
HOWEVER, for 450, it's a REALLY nice looking replica! I think if someone was offering those on the board for that price, you'd have a number of takers.
So if you're happy with the price, and you're happy with the piece, I think that's great.
But I have no doubt in my mind that it's NOT an original MFP piece. No big deal though
Either way, great find!
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
Qui-Gonzalez,
I appreciate what you're saying. I'm not trying to poo poo the purchase, just provide some information so that the owner is aware of the history of similar pieces that have been sold by Elstree / the Harrisons.
One of the major problems with collecting production made / used pieces is misrepresentation. Over the years facts and information about an item can be lost or 'warped', so it's important to try and arm people with information when you can.
You’ll notice that I didn’t explicitly pass comment on the Headpiece, just made observation on what I’ve seen over the years. I’ve not seen that specific item in person (although I have previously seen an ‘Elstree’ Headpiece in person) and have not seen a 100% confirmed original in person. I therefore can’t pass judgement on the piece, only the circumstances of the sale and the origin of the item. From that information you can make your own conclusions.
If your hard earnt cash had been spent on an item of questionable origin you’d want people with some subject knowledge to contribute so that you can determine the legitimacy and if it was misrepresented at the time of sale.
Caveat emptor!
Qui-Gonzalez,
I appreciate what you're saying. I'm not trying to poo poo the purchase, just provide some information so that the owner is aware of the history of similar pieces that have been sold by Elstree / the Harrisons.
One of the major problems with collecting production made / used pieces is misrepresentation. Over the years facts and information about an item can be lost or 'warped', so it's important to try and arm people with information when you can.
You’ll notice that I didn’t explicitly pass comment on the Headpiece, just made observation on what I’ve seen over the years. I’ve not seen that specific item in person (although I have previously seen an ‘Elstree’ Headpiece in person) and have not seen a 100% confirmed original in person. I therefore can’t pass judgement on the piece, only the circumstances of the sale and the origin of the item. From that information you can make your own conclusions.
If your hard earnt cash had been spent on an item of questionable origin you’d want people with some subject knowledge to contribute so that you can determine the legitimacy and if it was misrepresented at the time of sale.
Caveat emptor!
I can really appreciate what you are saying, BBDV, but your words are going to fall on deaf ears. Fyfe is happy with the piece. The pictures of Harrison with the piece, and next to the Ark Angels is cool. That's really all there is to it. He is not going to Sotheby's to sell this headpiece, he is keeping it for himself. So, the provenance - at least to me - does not matter a bit. Owner happy=good deal in my eyes.
You guys have the knowledge, you and omp uk, but in this instance, the words are wasted. It just comes off as you trying to poo poo on Fyfe's purchase. Even if it lacks provenance, it still has better detail than other "replicas" of the like. THAT is why Fyfe bought it...and he is happy. Now, if he should try to sell it to an auction house or the like, then you unload with both barrels of the knowledge shotgun.
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agent5
Sr Member
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
Nice score, Brad. Had this been several years ago when I had some extra cash this piece would be on it's way to me now. I am jealous.
One thing this may be are leftovers from the headpieces which were made for the cast/crew. I do recall hearing that there were some made for particular cast/crew members but off the top of my head I can't recall if they were pewter or just resin. Still, you may have one of those or one cast from one which is still a direct link back to the original.
I do agree with the statements about Elstree and their questionable auctions in the past. This is mostly what I've ever heard of them from the very experienced prop collectors and with a little common sense you can see just how questionable some of their auctions have been. That said, I agree with Matt completely that regardless of the facts you have a very, very nice headpiece which is most like the one used in the film for the close-up scene in Imam's house.
The provenance will be thin so just take it lightly and enjoy the piece. It's sweet and the price was even sweeter. The best of AcmeMagico headpieces costs about the same or even more. Hell, if you want I'll trade you this one for my Acme. :thumbsup
Nice score, Brad. Had this been several years ago when I had some extra cash this piece would be on it's way to me now. I am jealous.
One thing this may be are leftovers from the headpieces which were made for the cast/crew. I do recall hearing that there were some made for particular cast/crew members but off the top of my head I can't recall if they were pewter or just resin. Still, you may have one of those or one cast from one which is still a direct link back to the original.
I do agree with the statements about Elstree and their questionable auctions in the past. This is mostly what I've ever heard of them from the very experienced prop collectors and with a little common sense you can see just how questionable some of their auctions have been. That said, I agree with Matt completely that regardless of the facts you have a very, very nice headpiece which is most like the one used in the film for the close-up scene in Imam's house.
The provenance will be thin so just take it lightly and enjoy the piece. It's sweet and the price was even sweeter. The best of AcmeMagico headpieces costs about the same or even more. Hell, if you want I'll trade you this one for my Acme. :thumbsup
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
This is certainly a possibility, or it could be a re-run from the same mold. Sadly there is no way of really telling.
There were definitely headpiece copies made for senior crew. I know of 3 and have seen one in person - sadly I don't have any pictures and can't remember what it was made from!
This is certainly a possibility, or it could be a re-run from the same mold. Sadly there is no way of really telling.
There were definitely headpiece copies made for senior crew. I know of 3 and have seen one in person - sadly I don't have any pictures and can't remember what it was made from!
bigbaddaddyvader
Well-Known Member
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
I also don't mean to rain on anyone's parade and as I said it is a really nice headpiece and Brad if you're happy with the price and the piece that's great.Clearly by your posts it is something you have wanted and are well pleased with it!
As Dave has also said I think we just wanted to make the history concerned here clear.The thread does have "Thoughts?" in the title after all.
Part of the problem with this kind of thing is that as time goes on and these pieces change hands the provenance becomes more and more diluted and this muddiness tends to lend legitimacy to pieces which otherwise would not be afforded it.
In any case Brad you seem to have got something you really wanted so it is irrelevant and the history and knowledge is here should you,or anyone else in the future,need it.
I also don't mean to rain on anyone's parade and as I said it is a really nice headpiece and Brad if you're happy with the price and the piece that's great.Clearly by your posts it is something you have wanted and are well pleased with it!
As Dave has also said I think we just wanted to make the history concerned here clear.The thread does have "Thoughts?" in the title after all.
Part of the problem with this kind of thing is that as time goes on and these pieces change hands the provenance becomes more and more diluted and this muddiness tends to lend legitimacy to pieces which otherwise would not be afforded it.
In any case Brad you seem to have got something you really wanted so it is irrelevant and the history and knowledge is here should you,or anyone else in the future,need it.
Re: Production Made Staff of Ra Headpiece. BIG UPDATE 6-17! PAGE 4
Thank you BBDV, OMP, QUI_GON, AGENT5 and PHA,
As stated I am happy with this no matter what.
The way I look at it is, this piece hasn't come from ElstreeProps but direct from Norman Harrison. Since Norman worked on Raiders and especially this piece I am elated that this was:
1) Bought from his "personal collection" (no matter if it was just cast or an older casting)
2) Held by the man who worked on the film and props
3) Got it for $450!
4) Is the most accurate headpiece ever known to exist
So as of right now we know of about 3 crew HP's and possibly 3 "Elstree" HP's. So no matter what I have 1 of only 7 known HP's that have come from the original HP makers.
So this is like owning 1 of only 7 Stormtrooper Buckets know to have come from the original moulds, right? If Sheparton Studios only offered a run of 7 helmets made from the original moulds would those be in higher or lesser demand? That's how I see it.
Even the 60K Profiles HP could not be validated as original or screen used and had even lesser provenance than my piece. So I have an identical HP to that in which I paid $450...not bad in my eyes no matter what.
I know OMP and BBDV are prop purists and I appreciate their input, but until an original HP flies out of George Lucas' butt I am safe in saying this could be a production piece...could be. I'm not pinning my hopes on that at all.
The one thing I WILL be doing, once I get this is contacting Profiles so that we may truly understand the lineage of this piece. Along with Kevjh we may get to the bottom of this mystery prop and Elstree Props once and for all. I live about 30 miles from them, so I might be able to take this directly to them.
Once I get the HP in hand I think I will drop Luke Harrison an e-mail and ask him about their famliy's and Elstree's questionable past. Also it will be intersting to see if more headpieces pop up on Ebay anytime in the near future.
Thank you all again for your input. I am not looking at using this prop to retire on so all is good with me and my $450 HP.
Brad
Thank you BBDV, OMP, QUI_GON, AGENT5 and PHA,
As stated I am happy with this no matter what.
The way I look at it is, this piece hasn't come from ElstreeProps but direct from Norman Harrison. Since Norman worked on Raiders and especially this piece I am elated that this was:
1) Bought from his "personal collection" (no matter if it was just cast or an older casting)
2) Held by the man who worked on the film and props
3) Got it for $450!
4) Is the most accurate headpiece ever known to exist
So as of right now we know of about 3 crew HP's and possibly 3 "Elstree" HP's. So no matter what I have 1 of only 7 known HP's that have come from the original HP makers.
So this is like owning 1 of only 7 Stormtrooper Buckets know to have come from the original moulds, right? If Sheparton Studios only offered a run of 7 helmets made from the original moulds would those be in higher or lesser demand? That's how I see it.
Even the 60K Profiles HP could not be validated as original or screen used and had even lesser provenance than my piece. So I have an identical HP to that in which I paid $450...not bad in my eyes no matter what.
I know OMP and BBDV are prop purists and I appreciate their input, but until an original HP flies out of George Lucas' butt I am safe in saying this could be a production piece...could be. I'm not pinning my hopes on that at all.
The one thing I WILL be doing, once I get this is contacting Profiles so that we may truly understand the lineage of this piece. Along with Kevjh we may get to the bottom of this mystery prop and Elstree Props once and for all. I live about 30 miles from them, so I might be able to take this directly to them.
Once I get the HP in hand I think I will drop Luke Harrison an e-mail and ask him about their famliy's and Elstree's questionable past. Also it will be intersting to see if more headpieces pop up on Ebay anytime in the near future.
Thank you all again for your input. I am not looking at using this prop to retire on so all is good with me and my $450 HP.
Brad
