Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[JD]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Even though I didn't like the changes he made to the OT movies, I agree with his stance that they are (or were, in this case) his movies and he can do with them as he sees fit. What I disagree with is his childish refusal to allow the original theatrical versions to be released on DVD/Blu-Ray. That shows a complete and total lack of respect for the people like me who love those movies in their original form, and who helped to make Star Wars the phenomenon it has become.

That's kinda contrary. They are his movies, they're his to change... and he wants people to have those versions of his creation. It's not childish and there's no lack of respect at all... in fact, the reverse is probably more true... folks just aren't respecting Lucas and his property by demanding this release; especially, when you factor the costs of doing so (which I think most don't even consider... and there is no guarantee that this will be recovered).

People act like GL changed the whole dang movie - it's not like at the end ESB, Vader now cuts off Luke's leg, dances a jig and says "Yoda's your Daddy, sucker!" In the grand scheme of thing's the changes (barely) alter the story.

 

[Paul Andrew]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I am a gigantic Star Wars nerd, to the point of having emblems indelibly inked on my skin from the empire and rebellion, and even I find this recent bit of conversation to be a fat waste of bandwidth.
Random points, from what I consider to be clearly evidenced by this thread, the movies, and the clone wars:

FFS, we're talking about whose canon is more canon in regards to a ******* extra's inability to navigate the set in costume.

Dave Filoni knows what he's doing, he learned from GL.

I've seen nothing to contradict the notion that some clones might still be around by EPIV, but that most stormtroopers were indeed conscripts by that point. The increased speed by which clones age seems to be the reasoning for why that is. Also, if you want to get screen-picky, the varied height of many stormtroopers throughout the OT also leads to the conclusion that most of them are not clones.

Is this really a conversation? I thought this thread was about EPVII?

Surely we're all in agreement that 35 years past the OT clones are not likely to still be in service?

UGH.

 

[crabra comander]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Wait, what about all the clones in cryostasis? What about the clones on that water world planet? It's like the directors didn't have the foresight to plan 30 years into the future!:facepalm

GL should have edited all Stormtroopers to be the same size in his blu-ray editions...

 

[gizmo]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah I think the argument is getting a little silly now. I still love Lucas anyway. He's given me much more happiness than pain.


Ben

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, this post is for information ONLY. It's beyond clear that opinions & minds are being made up regardless of facts. Some folks like/hate the prequels. Some folks like/hate the TV stuff. Some folks pick & chose what they believe based on their opinion of official sources (To me this is like saying that I loved The AVENGERS, but hate AGENTS of S.H.E.I.L.D., so therefore, in MY opinion, Coulson is STILL DEAD because that's what happened in the last FILM he was in.) Whatever.

I have the visual guide to the new REBELS show, & tonight I really had a chance to go through it. Lo & behold, there's a section on Stormtroopers & the Imperial Army. I will just quote here what the entry for the Army says:

IMPERIAL ARMY

Stormtroopers are the foot soldiers of the Empire. They replaced the clone armies of the Republic, and now serve throughout the galaxy. Underneath their distinctive white battle armor are loyal Imperial citizens-though not necessarily bright ones.

Trained troops

The original soldiers of the Grand Army of the Republic were clones. Stormtroopers, however, are mostly naturally born men and women, trained in brutal Imperial acadamies.



This is the book put out by Lucasfilm as material to give some background for the new series for fans that didn't want to go into it cold. As far as I'm concerned, this is gospel. If you don't think so, then all I can do is wish you well & leave it at that. Any SW fan knows what GLintended, & what's official to be vastly different things.

The last thing I'll say is that we as a public have , IMO, a very skewed view on what a story is supposed to be,& what we deserve. A story in it's purest form, is a person relating something to another. In that situation, we as the hearer, don't get to decide what twists & turns the story takes, or how the story ends. In '77, Lucas started telling us a story that he wanted to be heard. We took that story & held on with both hands & all 10 toes. We've spent countless hours watching, debating, arguing, researching, recreating, & for lack of a better term, idolizing all aspects of this story. Some of them we love & some we don't, but some of us feel that is we hate it strong enough, then the story OWES US something different.

You don't like the prequels? OK. You think the Ewoks were pandering for toy money? You're probably right. You think the dialogue is either badly written/performed/directed? Good enough.

BUT

We are the AUDIENCE. It is NOT OUR story to tell. How can you tell a man that's telling a story, that it's wrong, because I don't like the way it goes. IT"S HIS FREAKING STORY. It's not his fault that I've spent money & have items relating to his saga throughout my house. He owes me NOTHING. If anything, I owe HIM. My thanks. For everything he's given me in my life to enjoy.

Sorry about the rant, but since REBELS is so intrinsically linked to EP VII, I thought the trooper info was valid here.

 

[robn1]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

 

[glunark]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

That's a bold statement.

 

[crabra comander]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

So we shall be seeing an Inquisitor Sith?

 

[SofaKing01]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'm not sure if this has been brought up... Do you think we'll see Wedge?

 

[glunark]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Absolutely not.

They asked him, and he turned them down.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah I think the argument is getting a little silly now. I still love Lucas anyway. He's given me much more happiness than pain.


Ben

It's a slow EpVII news week.

 

[SofaKing01]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Absolutely not.

They asked him, and he turned them down.

Really? WOW... I wonder why?

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

So we shall be seeing an Inquisitor Sith?

i think the rumors surrounding that are muddled and sometimes confusing the Inquisitor from Rebels with a potential Ep.VII villain.

 

[Victor3]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'm not sure if this has been brought up... Do you think we'll see Wedge?

I can't dig for it now, but he turned down the opportunity back in the spring. IIRC, he just wasn't interested in having a little cameo.
That's cool with me. I say, leave Lando out too, unless he's necessary. It's a big galaxy people, give us new characters!

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, this post is for information ONLY. It's beyond clear that opinions & minds are being made up regardless of facts. Some folks like/hate the prequels. Some folks like/hate the TV stuff. Some folks pick & chose what they believe based on their opinion of official sources (To me this is like saying that I loved The AVENGERS, but hate AGENTS of S.H.E.I.L.D., so therefore, in MY opinion, Coulson is STILL DEAD because that's what happened in the last FILM he was in.) Whatever.

Here's my million dollar question...

If Coulson never appears in another Marvel movie - does it matter that most will think he's still dead?

In that same context: if the masses think (some/most) Stormtroopers are clones and this idea is never confirmed or denied in the movies - does it matter that most think there are clones still in the ranks?

I think this is retcon BS, not Lucas' idea or following his canon, and merely to justify Boyega's character in VII. It's unfortunate that they couldn't find a better what to approach this. You can say Filoni was Uncle George's right hand man - but, so was Rick McCallum (who I have no beef with, but it seems a lot of folks do) and Filoni has a job to do under this new regime, so of course he's going to toe the company line - doesn't make it wrong or right (same with Pablo Hidalgo). They may be the most awesome SW geeks in the world and hand fed by GL, but that doesn't mean they have their own agenda (and that may include keeping their jobs or having contrary ideas to what GL had).

So yes, ST are not clones anymore and Han shoots first. I still argue that GL opted to change his mind and make Han shoot first, I still haven't seen anything that makes me feel that GL opted to change his mind about ST being clones. I think this change is much more contrary to the "big picture" in the SW universe as I still feel it is implied that ST's are clones (at least some of them).

TBH, I'm not sure why I find this so amusing and debatable. I don't have that big of a deal with Han shooting first or other changes to the OT and overall, I don't think this is going to effect my love of Star Wars... I just find it silly their making a change like this.

 

[Westies14]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

It's never once occurred to me while watching Star Wars, Empire, or Jedi that the stormtroopers were identical clones under the armor. It came up as a topic of discussion when we were kids, sure. Luke and Ben had talked about the Clone Wars and all. I'd always dismissed the idea pretty easily though, because the films never seemed to present them that way. There's nothing explicit in either direction that I can remember - they just never seemed like the same guy to me.

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Here's my shocked face-






:eek





Here's why the Coulson argument matters. If Coulson never appears in another Marvel movie, then you're right. It doesn't matter one way or the other. But...If at some time, a Marvel movie writer decides that his survival is a story worthy plot point, then it has been officially established in the show that he is still alive.

Relating that to the current discussion, If it's never touched upon as to the Troopers ranks, then it doesn't matter. But...there is going to be a plot point in the EP VII storyline that has now been firmly established in the official TV show. It's done.



Lastly, to quote you, JD-

TBH, I'm not sure why I find this so amusing and debatable. I don't have that big of a deal with Han shooting first or other changes to the OT and overall, I don't think this is going to effect my love of Star Wars... I just find it silly their making a change like this.


There's the whole thing in a nutshell.Seems to me that this started as some fans of the franchise were looking for some info about this particular point. That info has been provided & settled. No offense, but your liking/agreeing with said info doesn't matter, or add to the discussion, but your insistence on bringing the horse back to life, just to beat it to death again, is what your purpose is. Not to add to the discussion. You are no longer discussing EP VII. You are just repeating the same opinion, that is fine as your opinion, but it isn't fact & doesn't need to be brought up again after every single post.

But your enjoyment of repeating it seems to be the point of it. Not a valid discussion.

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Here's my shocked face-






:eek





Here's why the Coulson argument matters. If Coulson never appears in another Marvel movie, then you're right. It doesn't matter one way or the other. But...If at some time, a Marvel movie writer decides that his survival is a story worthy plot point, then it has been officially established in the show that he is still alive.

Relating that to the current discussion, If it's never touched upon as to the Troopers ranks, then it doesn't matter. But...there is going to be a plot point in the EP VII storyline that has now been firmly established in the official TV show. It's done.

No, it's no necessarily done. There can be lots of fruitful discussion and debate as to why this is done... some of which I've mentioned a few times. We can discuss how this change in storyline reflects to the original movies and if it has GL's blessing, if it's part of GL's original stories and it changes the original story.

We also don't know if it will be a plot point in VII. We think it will be. Most likely, I'd guess it's never mentioned and if Boyega is a Trooper that it's never said that there are no clones in the ranks.

Lastly, to quote you, JD-

TBH, I'm not sure why I find this so amusing and debatable. I don't have that big of a deal with Han shooting first or other changes to the OT and overall, I don't think this is going to effect my love of Star Wars... I just find it silly their making a change like this.


There's the whole thing in a nutshell.Seems to me that this started as some fans of the franchise were looking for some info about this particular point. That info has been provided & settled. No offense, but your liking/agreeing with said info doesn't matter, or add to the discussion, but your insistence on bringing the horse back to life, just to beat it to death again, is what your purpose is. Not to add to the discussion. You are no longer discussing EP VII. You are just repeating the same opinion, that is fine as your opinion, but it isn't fact & doesn't need to be brought up again after every single post.

But your enjoyment of repeating it seems to be the point of it. Not a valid discussion.

So we need to resort to personal attacks because I have a difference of opinion and like to discuss the matters? The horse was beaten by quite a few people and a lot of fun, debate and information was given out. There was plenty of discussion and information and personal input and opinion here... just because you did't agree with it or like that someone dare have a contrary view, doesn't mean that it wasn't a worthwhile talk. I even went out of my way to present info contrary to my belief in the matter.

There was lots of opinions stated and the back-and-forth was given by plenty of people and there were lots of opinions bandied about. There was lots of good information and I had hoped to spur discussion about some of the info and opinions spewed here... some of it got discussed, some of it didn't.

Thank you for your high and mighty need to point what you feel are the shortcomings of others. I'm good the way I am, worry about yourself.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

For the narrative purposes of the new films and the interesting directions the story and characters can go, I think it's a better creative choice to have the troopers be distinct individuals.

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Sorry if you feel that was a personal attack. I haven't disparaged any of your opinions on the facts, but debating just for the point of debating, while it may be fun at times, doesn't add to the discussion.

It just seemed like your approach to all the discussions have been to be the guy to argue for the sake of arguing. It just seems to drag down the spirit of the discussion.