Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The entire political structure in ANH is sort of nebulous in how it's discussed. But clearly the Senate was still around right up to the start of the film in some capacity, so maybe the Academy was a vestige of the old Republic that was yet to be swept away.

GL made up for his lack of political clarity in the PT in spades! :)
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think my favorite part of that is hearing of another Ewok battle...except this time they will crush the Sith! :lol

But seriously, I can't wait to see the ground littered with their dirty little bodies. Retaliation makes sense.

I've said it before... Wicket with a beard of GTFO!

I was 8 when I saw Jedi... I love me some Ewoks.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

That's kinda contrary. They are his movies, they're his to change... and he wants people to have those versions of his creation. It's not childish and there's no lack of respect at all... in fact, the reverse is probably more true... folks just aren't respecting Lucas and his property by demanding this release; especially, when you factor the costs of doing so (which I think most don't even consider... and there is no guarantee that this will be recovered)...
I don't see them as being contrary because they're two separate, but connected, issues--intellectual property and distribution. Director's Cuts and Special Editions of movies are quite common, but this is the only case I know of in which someone has tried to eliminate the existence of the original versions and attempted to convince people they never existed in the first place. I understand he doesn't like them, but for him to essentially state, "I don't like them, so you can't watch them either." It's childish and shows a complete lack of respect and/or appreciation for the fans who have loved those movies for more than three decades.

With regards to cost, that's all on Lucas. No one asked him to revise the movies; the fans simply wanted them on DVD or Blu-Ray, mediums that are consistent with the current home entertainment technology. And since they had to transfer the original movies to a digital medium and clean them up in order to revise them, that work was already going to be done and the money was already going to be spent.

... People act like GL changed the whole dang movie - it's not like at the end ESB, Vader now cuts off Luke's leg, dances a jig and says "Yoda's your Daddy, sucker!" In the grand scheme of thing's the changes (barely) alter the story.
Yes, but the story is only one part of making a good movie. Good storytelling is also a matter of pacing and timing and, in my opinion, that's where the not-so-Special Editions fail, particularly with regards to A New Hope.

My biggest "gripe" with Lucas' revised version of that movie is the inclusion of the scene in which Han Solo confronts Jabba the Hutt. In my opinion the original theatrical version moves along at a good pace with no wasted footage; every scene aids in moving the story along. But now there's a scene in which Han and Jabba have an extended dialogue which does nothing but repeat the conversation Han had with Greedo in the Cantina--Han owes Jabba money. It's repetitive, brings the flow of the story to a dead stop, and does nothing to move the story along.

And, of course there's the "Greedo shoots first" scene. True, it doesn't change the story, but it does change the way audiences perceive Han Solo. In the original theatrical version it's clear he's a deliberate, pro-active person who will do whatever it takes to protect himself. But Greedo shooting first turns him into a reactive "let's wait and see what happens" passive person; it diminishes the character. And, on a side note, it just looks bad and obviously tampered with.

Of course, these are only my opinions and I express them with no disrespect intended towards your opinions (or anyone else's).
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I don't see them as being contrary because they're two separate, but connected, issues--intellectual property and distribution. Director's Cuts and Special Editions of movies are quite common, but this is the only case I know of in which someone has tried to eliminate the existence of the original versions and attempted to convince people they never existed in the first place. I understand he doesn't like them, but for him to essentially state, "I don't like them, so you can't watch them either." It's childish and shows a complete lack of respect and/or appreciation for the fans who have loved those movies for more than three decades.
Again they're his movie, it's his art and his to change.

He hasn't tried to eliminate the existence of the original versions (he actually released a version of it on DVD - although many find it inferior) and I've never heard any king of argument against its existence. Yes, he hasn't sunk much money into a releasing it (see: DVD release) and I don't understand why so many think he has any obligation to do so... in fact, it could be argued that the demand and the way that vocal minority reacts to him not doing so is even more childish.

It's the "he owes me" attitude of so many fans that just irks me. It's not childish to present your vision, your art in the manner you feel that best suits it. It's childish to expect someone to cater their product to your whims - it's childish to rant and rave to get what you want (and part of me wishes he would go after some of those fan edits... it's not your work, create and fund your own).


With regards to cost, that's all on Lucas. No one asked him to revise the movies; the fans simply wanted them on DVD or Blu-Ray, mediums that are consistent with the current home entertainment technology. And since they had to transfer the original movies to a digital medium and clean them up in order to revise them, that work was already going to be done and the money was already going to be spent.
Again, it's his vision, his story... no one asked you to buy his revised movies. There is no law that I am aware of that says they must provide you with a DVD or Blu Ray or current home movie format. Nothing mandates that he must provide us with anything... if they opt to provide us with something, well... that's our decision to buy it - no one forces you to buy any of this... and most are pretty aware of the changes prior to the checkout line.

Yes, but the story is only one part of making a good movie. Good storytelling is also a matter of pacing and timing and, in my opinion, that's where the not-so-Special Editions fail, particularly with regards to A New Hope.
You're entitled to an opinion... even if it's wrong ;)

My biggest "gripe" with Lucas' revised version of that movie is the inclusion of the scene in which Han Solo confronts Jabba the Hutt. In my opinion the original theatrical version moves along at a good pace with no wasted footage; every scene aids in moving the story along. But now there's a scene in which Han and Jabba have an extended dialogue which does nothing but repeat the conversation Han had with Greedo in the Cantina--Han owes Jabba money. It's repetitive, brings the flow of the story to a dead stop, and does nothing to move the story along.
I don't necessarily disagree with you on this. But, let's not forget that this is actual footage that was shot and filmed and part of GL's original vision. It doesn't bother me (ok, the original Jabba CG footage wasn't the best) as much as it appears to irk you. But, it still doesn't change the dynamic of the film - the story is intact.

And, of course there's the "Greedo shoots first" scene. True, it doesn't change the story, but it does change the way audiences perceive Han Solo. In the original theatrical version it's clear he's a deliberate, pro-active person who will do whatever it takes to protect himself. But Greedo shooting first turns him into a reactive "let's wait and see what happens" passive person; it diminishes the character. And, on a side note, it just looks bad and obviously tampered with.
A mountain from a molehill. Lucas revises and changes things as he determines fits the story. This doesn't bug me as much as it should... I get that people don't like Greedo shooting at all and just feel that it's not that huge a change (I'd get rid of the Jabba footage first). Obviously, Lucas thoughts on the Han Solo character changed during the filming of those three movies - and it's his movie to opt to change these things. This really doesn't change the story (it might look meh), but the reality is that Han was shooting at the same time as Greedo and it doesn't change his intent at all.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

...He hasn't tried to eliminate the existence of the original versions (he actually released a version of it on DVD - although many find it inferior) and I've never heard any king of argument against its existence...
I don't have any examples I can link to, but in a number of interviews I've read in which he was asked if the theatrical versions would ever be released again his answer was, "No, those versions don't exist any more." So, yeah, it's not like he's confiscating copies of the original versions and having weekly bonfires at Skywalker Ranch, but I get the feeling he would if he could.

...Yes, he hasn't sunk much money into a releasing it (see: DVD release) and I don't understand why so many think he has any obligation to do so...It's the "he owes me" attitude of so many fans that just irks me...
I don't personally believe that he owes his fans anything. But the argument could be made that the fans of those movies have provided the lifestyle he now lives by spending their hard-earned money to see those movies again and again, and that it would be nice for him to show some appreciation of that.

...It's not childish to present your vision, your art in the manner you feel that best suits it...
True, but it's funny that he was so proud of those movies and spoke so defensively of them until the new technologies came along that allowed him to change them.

...Again, it's his vision, his story... no one asked you to buy his revised movies. There is no law that I am aware of that says they must provide you with a DVD or Blu Ray or current home movie format. Nothing mandates that he must provide us with anything... if they opt to provide us with something, well... that's our decision to buy it - no one forces you to buy any of this... and most are pretty aware of the changes prior to the checkout line...
This is true as well. And the only "revised" versions I purchased were the first not-so-Special-Editions, and I did that only because they came with the original theatrical versions (such as they are).

...This really doesn't change the story (it might look meh), but the reality is that Han was shooting at the same time as Greedo and it doesn't change his intent at all.
Yeah, I've heard this "they shot at the same time" nonsense from Lucas, and it's nothing more than his usual revisionist B.S.. I've seen A New Hope so many times that I've lost count, but I never saw Greedo fire his weapon until the first not-so-Special-Edition was released.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

JD, it's hard to see things from your perspective.
To help illustrate the antithesis let my put it this way; remember New Coke? It was an attempt by the owners of Coca-Cola to re-imagine and replace their poplar product.

Nearly everyone thought the original was better, so the company saw the error in its ways and brought back Coke Classic.
If George Lucas owned Coca-Cola he would probably have insisted that New Coke was always what he wanted Coke to be. Furthermore he wouldn't care that people preferred his original product and we would still be stuck with New Coke today....
Some people may like it and a new generation would not know any other Coke. But to many others it would always be a sad reminder of the better product they remember from years ago.

You can like New Star Wars if you want to. But don't expect the rest of us not to be pissed about the fact that we can't get our Star Wars Classic.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

..... remember New Coke? It was an attempt by the owners of Coca-Cola to re-imagine and replace their poplar product.

Nearly everyone thought the original was better, so the company saw the error in its ways and brought back Coke Classic.
If George Lucas owned Coca-Cola he would probably have insisted that New Coke was always what he wanted Coke to be. Furthermore he wouldn't care that people preferred his original product and we would still be stuck with New Coke today....
Some people may like it and a new generation would not know any other Coke. But to many others it would always be a sad reminder of the better product they remember from years ago.

You can like New Star Wars if you want to. But don't expect the rest of us not to be pissed about the fact that we can't get our Star Wars Classic.

Great analogy!
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Think about why GL got into the Star Wars business in the first place. The studios had just re-edited both of his first two movies against his will. He was frustrated at not having creative freedom over his own stuff. That experience shaped his entire career.

30 years later the SW fans were complaining at him for re-editing his own movies. It must have been hitting same nerve all over again. Eventually the complaints probably started doing more harm than good. By the 2000s I think GL had gotten more stubborn and insistent on screwing with his movies just because he could.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

JD, it's hard to see things from your perspective.
To help illustrate the antithesis let my put it this way; remember New Coke? It was an attempt by the owners of Coca-Cola to re-imagine and replace their poplar product.

Nearly everyone thought the original was better, so the company saw the error in its ways and brought back Coke Classic.
If George Lucas owned Coca-Cola he would probably have insisted that New Coke was always what he wanted Coke to be. Furthermore he wouldn't care that people preferred his original product and we would still be stuck with New Coke today....
Some people may like it and a new generation would not know any other Coke. But to many others it would always be a sad reminder of the better product they remember from years ago.

You can like New Star Wars if you want to. But don't expect the rest of us not to be pissed about the fact that we can't get our Star Wars Classic.
You're comparing apples to Dodge Neons. Alas, when you boil them down to essentials - both are products to be sold to the masses; but, one is the product of a man and his creative endeavor, while I guess one could argue that some scientist/cook deep within Coke's test labs might feel similarly - it's not the same.

But, if Coke opted to sell only New Coke - it's their product and their decision to make. (If they still sold Surge, I'd probably weigh 50 lbs more than I do now). We could also get into taste tests and show how all the pre-marketing showed that most folks preferred the taste of New Coke vs. Classic Coke/Pepsi... and then we could get into how New/Classic Coke ended up being a (long term) amazing marketing tool, as sales of Classic Coke skyrocketed. (Can we say sales of the unadulterated SW would do the same? We can say that, I don't think that's true at all. The market for this is smaller than anyone would want to admit).

So... yes, maybe SW could release the original SW unadulterated version. But, they did... the 2006 DVD release included the original version of Star Wars. Of course, this was without any extensive and expensive work to them; and of course, fans bitched about them (perhaps rightfully so). This also starts what could be an endless cycle... VHS, Laser disc, DVD - now it's a demand for Bluray, what would it be next year or the year after that? Do they have to deliver something everytime a fan feels they're owed something?

I might agree that SW should be preserved. But, I also feel that the owner and artist behind the work should be the sole decision maker of what happens to his work... we can't make demands and be pissed that he doesn't feel that it lives up to what he feels his work should be. I'm not going to lie - I'd probably be buying these just like everyone else here... but, it wouldn't be with the same enthusiasm or want that I bought the 6-disc Blu Ray (which I went at midnight to buy).

Are we really part of a generation that feels that because we want something that we should whine and moan until someone appeases us? Is it really beneficial to be creative at all - if folks are going to demand changes to what you create to satisfy their nostalgia?
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

So... yes, maybe SW could release the original SW unadulterated version. But, they did... the 2006 DVD release included the original version of Star Wars. Of course, this was without any extensive and expensive work to them; and of course, fans bitched about them (perhaps rightfully so).

These versions are so bad they barely count. Have you ever seen them? It's worse than watching a 20 year old VHS.
It was a big F-YOU! to the people who wanted something close to the quality they might see in a theater.

George can have final say on his art all he likes. But that doesn't make it well loved and accepted by default.
A sensible artist should understand their audience.
Like Steven Spielberg. He made a bunch of changes to E.T but packaged that version right along with the original.
Later he asked his admirers if they minded if the new version didn't get released on Bluray since the reception had been bad. Now you can get the original E.T on Blu ray and life is good. And if you preferred the new one, there is a great quality dvd release which is the only way you would have ever seen it.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Haha you make it sound so negative to appreciate a piece of art that that we saw when we were younger! If DaVinci's zombie crawled into the Louvre and gunked up the Mona Lisa, I feel like we'd be criticized for being glad someone had thought to take a picture of the thing. It's not wrong to want to see what the art you loved looked like before someone scribbled all over it.
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Nailed it.

I don't think any of us could say it any better.

Haha you make it sound so negative to appreciate a piece of art that that we saw when we were younger! If DaVinci's zombie crawled into the Louvre and gunked up the Mona Lisa, I feel like we'd be criticized for being glad someone had thought to take a picture of the thing. It's not wrong to want to watch to see the what the art you loved looked like before someone scribbled all over it.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Haha you make it sound so negative to appreciate a piece of art that that we saw when we were younger! If DaVinci's zombie crawled into the Louvre and gunked up the Mona Lisa, I feel like we'd be criticized for being glad someone had thought to take a picture of the thing. It's not wrong to want to see what the art you loved looked like before someone scribbled all over it.
Yes... let's compare a living, breathing person with control over their work to a zombie. Let's also compare the changes the artist opted to make to "scribbling" over the Mona Lisa. :facepalm

You're making assumptions and putting words into my mouth.
 
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