Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

A force ghost was what initially popped into my mind as well when I read the initial reports on Ian being involved. I can see how this could work and make for a great story. To think they are going to make a film completely devoid of Sith or evil Force users is likely a fools errand. People need more lightsaber, myself included.

Well, a couple of things. For starters there is an entirely new generation for whom these will be their first SW in theater experience, so although some of us older folks may have prequel Jedi OD, myself not included, that's not likely to be a factor in the direction they craft this story. Nor should it be, IMO. The Jedi and the Force are what make this entire franchise very special and unique from everything else. You don't walk away from that. And I would think considering the era, Jedi will be somewhat limited in their abilities.

To use Palpatine in some capacity really is no different from having an initial re-introduction to the OT characters of Luke, Han, and Leia, so I would suggest you can do both, have that connection to the OT and have a new story with new directions and ideas. But SW MUST have Jedi and the Force.

To be clear, I'm not saying that there should be NO Jedi and NO use of the Force. Only that (A) the focus shouldn't be on them and, (B) if it is, the Force should be as Bryan describes below: special, requiring great concentration, and not something akin to, say, Superman's powers. Superman as a character works because there's only one of him. A whole bunch of Supermen running around...that's a problem.

I do, however, think that the Sith should remain extinct. Palpatine showing up as a ghost or in a dream or whatever to haunt Luke, or to tempt some younger Jedi, sure, that COULD work if done very very minimally, but Palpatine as the new puppetmaster ghost or creating a new line of the Sith...that seems myopic.

That a very much agree with. I do think the prequels and Clone Wars cartoon suffered a bit from the Jedi being too powerful. When I was 9 and STAR WARS came out, for me the Force was something which required a huge amount of concentration to use and it was used somewhat sparingly. That kept it special. It lost some of that in the prequels, but considering this new era, hopefully that is something that will return to the films.

Well said. The extermination of the Jedi at the end of the PT and Luke's own training in the OT gives the writers an opportunity to pick and choose what will remain and what will go. The Jedi don't need to be as powerful as they were in the PT, nor as numerous. I think a lot of this can be helped by not focusing almost exclusively on Jedi characters, and including more "regular folks" like Han and (at least in the first two films) Leia.

Ha!! As an investment advisor I try and look behind the rumors and for Disney I see a very clear, investable direction they will take this franchise and other companies that will benefit. If you want to know more, you need to have a brokerage account with me.

So...."Buy Disney," then?

 

[Master Valon]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I totally agree with Solo4114 on the whole "focusing more on regular people" thing. I guess you can't get away from the Jedi/Sith, Force-using tropes this far down the road, and that's fine. But that honestly isn't why I love the SW universe. Yes, it's a classic icon of the series, and instantly recognizable, but if that's all they're relying on, as far as "Well, people like SW for the lightsaber fights, so let's write in the villain as some sort of Sith to make that happen" is extremely artificial, goes against the natural progression of the story, and is very soulless, in my opinion. At that point, it's like the writers would be making content based on the symbolic icons that worldwide people recognize as SW, not what makes SW "good", so to speak. To me, it'd almost be a parody of one's self, or making these "meta", self-aware references, rather than taking a rich universe with a lot of potential, and taking it to new, exciting places, that would be a natural progression. Now, I know this isn't the majority opinion, but I personally would be fine with Ep VII having no lightsabers or Jedi or Sith, and having it be a more "human" story, like Solo4114 said, with the secession storyline, on a smaller scale. My absolute favorite SW story is the Republic Commando book series, because it took the same rich environment, but made the story a military drama, with human rights issues as the main motivator, written by an ex-military correspondent and field journalist. It was a very, very different TYPE of story, as in, not a hero quest, but set in the same, potential filled universe, AND with the same tropes of a "classic" SW story (Jedi, sabers, etc...), just in smaller doses. Ultimately, I know that won't happen in a numbered sequel, BUT I hope with the spinoffs, we get some directors who are known for specific genres, doing their thing set in the SW universe. Like, maybe a noir murder mystery set in the underbelly of Coruscant, or like a Western set on Tatooine. The good Vs. evil, black and white, archetypal hero quest and/or fallen hero storyline has been beat into the ground. We can still keep the "feel" of the OT without copying it to the point of being a cash-in.

 

[rodneyfaile]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Ha!! As an investment advisor I try and look behind the rumors and for Disney I see a very clear, investable direction they will take this franchise and other companies that will benefit. If you want to know more, you need to have a brokerage account with me.

I'm sure from a financial standpoint, Disney and Star Wars are fine. As for the entertainment quality of Episode VII, who can say?

May The Force be with JJ!

- - - Updated - - -

There are too many mutants in Xmen. Why not make an Xmen movie about regular people?

 

[Master Valon]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

- - - Updated - - -

There are too many mutants in Xmen. Why not make an Xmen movie about regular people?

That's not a good parallel, because with that, we DO get to see a lot of "What if?" stories set in that universe...it's called reading Iron Man, or Hulk, or Spider-man. It's not like X-Men is set in this crazy extensive universe, but we only see the mutant-based stories. That's what I and other people are saying. We have this whole world going on, and hinted at, but at least in the movies, never explored. Plus, we're not even saying NO Jedi/Sith. I admitted that's not going to happen. Just not MOSTLY Jedi/Sith. In such a huge universe with many, many other appealing things about it, it'd be nice to see some variety.

 

[rodneyfaile]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Just not MOSTLY Jedi/Sith. In such a huge universe with many, many other appealing things about it, it'd be nice to see some variety.

I completely agree.

I wouldn't even mind seeing all sorts of stories that had nothing to do with anyone using the force. I'd love to see some detective solving a murder on Coruscant with a Blade Runner vibe.

But when you get to the main event at the top, I don't see how force using individuals are not at the center of what's going on.

 

[Lost21stJedi]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Just my .02 on the Palpatine Force ghost issue...

If Luke is training new Jedi and teaches them that Obi-Wan contacted him and advised him after his death, maybe a Jedi that wishes to learn Sith secrets, attempts to contact Palpatine. He was a very powerful Sith Lord and also, as far as we know, the most recent one.

 

[Jaitea]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

That's not a good parallel, because with that, we DO get to see a lot of "What if?" stories set in that universe...it's called reading Iron Man, or Hulk, or Spider-man. It's not like X-Men is set in this crazy extensive universe, but we only see the mutant-based stories. That's what I and other people are saying. We have this whole world going on, and hinted at, but at least in the movies, never explored. Plus, we're not even saying NO Jedi/Sith. I admitted that's not going to happen. Just not MOSTLY Jedi/Sith. In such a huge universe with many, many other appealing things about it, it'd be nice to see some variety.

^ My opinion exactly.......but just to sum it up, my hopes are that the new films main characters are mainly non-force users seasoned with a few Jedi.....more like the OT, the PT just had too many Jedi (I know that there had to be a high number of Jedi...so that they could be wiped out by the new Empire.....but there was a lack of non force users for the audience to connect with)

Last night I posted:

Well Disney seem to know what direction they want to take SW, with the production team they have for ep VII & the new Rebels cartoon, I'm really happy the way its going

To which

Happy the way it's going? What way is that? It hasn't went anywhere yet! Lol

What I was meaning was that already Disney has cancelled computer game production, and has instead moved the production over to EA to focus on to a more mainstream Battlefront game, geared to all Star Wars fans,....they have cancelled the excellent Clone Wars cartoon, possibly because it was just aimed at the time period in the middle of the Prequels,.....to be replaced by the new Rebels cartoon......less sabers,.....more non-force users, set in a more exciting time when the Empire & Vader were exterminating the Jedi etc, I think Disney knows where the real money lies, in the success of the Original Trilogy

J

 

[Laspector]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

It's too bad we can't go back to the one thing in ANH that we all identified with when it first came out; A young person stuck in the middle of nowhere longing for adventure. He sets off on a quest and meets interesting people and does interesting things. That's what was the subconscious appeal of SW back in the beginning. Lightsabers, Jedi, the Force, cool spaceships, aliens and neat robots were really just the add-ons that caught your eye. The core of the ANH story is basically a Wizard of Oz-like story. It was that message that I related to back in 1977.

Even as good as TESB is it doesn't have that innocence that ANH does. And after that, that original quest is gone. Once Luke is immersed in that universe all of the "boy longing for adventure" story is behind us. That's why ANH is the only SW movie that can stand on it's own, it could have all ended right there and the story was complete.

If there was some way to bring THAT magic back, then we might truly have another super-great SW movie. Now it's all just "how many lightsaber fights can we have?".....and I'm sick of that.

 

[cking]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Great post! I agree with all of your comments Laspector!

Chris

It's too bad we can't go back to the one thing in ANH that we all identified with when it first came out; A young person stuck in the middle of nowhere longing for adventure. He sets off on a quest and meets interesting people and does interesting things. That's what was the subconscious appeal of SW back in the beginning. Lightsabers, Jedi, the Force, cool spaceships, aliens and neat robots were really just the add-ons that caught your eye. The core of the ANH story is basically a Wizard of Oz-like story. It was that message that I related to back in 1977.

Even as good as TESB is it doesn't have that innocence that ANH does. And after that, that original quest is gone. Once Luke is immersed in that universe all of the "boy longing for adventure" story is behind us. That's why ANH is the only SW movie that can stand on it's own, it could have all ended right there and the story was complete.

If there was some way to bring THAT magic back, then we might truly have another super-great SW movie. Now it's all just "how many lightsaber fights can we have?".....and I'm sick of that.

 

[cboath]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

If palpatine left the temple up as a warning, who's to say he didn't use it as a backup plan in case of his failure?

He could have stored artifacts, recordings, or holocrons there for jedi to discover to tempt them towards the dark side. He had 30ish years of total control, who knows what he could have done. Without having total control he managed to create millions of clones on a planet wiped from the republic systems. He could have stuff hidden everywhere.

Similarly, even he trashed the temple, who's to say an archeological dig doesn't find an ancient Jedi temple full of holocrons to teach the newbies stuff the PT and OT jedi had long forgotten?

 

[niennumb1]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

If it's something we learned from the prequels about the extinction of the Sith and Palpatine, Sith seem to be very methodical and patient for many many years before deciding to make a move on something.

I wouldn't doubt if there was some silent rise of Sith activity over the past 30 years. Who knows what fire got sparked by the defeat of the empire. There's ALWAYS going to be conflict. When you look at the world we live in things are far from perfect. We have our share of monsters that do horrible things.

I think the team over there at Disney have a REALLY strong group of very passionate people who want to make a compelling film. To all of those people this must be like a dream come true to be part of. If they are nostalgic in the least you can bet they will incorporate elements of the OT into these films and I think they'll do it justice and giving this story the heart it had years ago.

I always thought George Lucas had amazing IDEAS and the universe he created is AMAZING, but I think his biggest weakness was in the script dialogue and storytelling aspect (Directing) where it could have been a lot more compelling.

The Disney name is just a name attached. I think they'll be pretty trusting in the hands of Abrams and company to make this film great.

I've never been more confident in a new Star Wars film entering the picture as I have been now. It may not be the best Star Wars film ever made, but I think it will be more highly regarded in its integrity than the last few films made.

 

[rodneyfaile]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

JJ's new Trek wasn't made for classic Trek fans. It was for the next generation. I think it will be the same for Episode VII. Adapt or die.

 

[Laspector]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Maybe that's why JJ's new Trek isn't really very good.....

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

It could be said the prequels were also made for a new generation.

 

[blakeh1]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I definitely would like to see toning down 'superman' type Jedi of the prequels

I also would like to have a film that didn't involve flying a fighter into a super battle station to blow it up. 3 of the 6 films already covered that ground

 

[niennumb1]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Looks like Harrison Ford (didn't) reveal any new details on Conan:

Harrison Ford Takes ,000 Bribe For New "Star Wars" Spoilers @ TeamCoco.com

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

To be clear, I'm not saying that there should be NO Jedi and NO use of the Force. Only that (A) the focus shouldn't be on them and, (B) if it is, the Force should be as Bryan describes below: special, requiring great concentration, and not something akin to, say, Superman's powers. Superman as a character works because there's only one of him. A whole bunch of Supermen running around...that's a problem.

I definitely would like to see toning down 'superman' type Jedi of the prequels

I don't get why everyone thinks the Prequel Jedi were like Superman. They weren't at all. They didn't do anything that Luke didn't do in ROTJ! The most far out thing you saw was Yoda capture the Force lightning and throw it back. Also Lucas has said numerous times that we never saw Jedi in their prime in the OT. Obi Wan and Vader were old men. So your idea of using the Force to be super hard to use is one, contrary to how it is described in the OT, and two based on two men who were old and barely human. If the Jedi were as you presumably want, they'd be useless as defenders of anything. I'd just wait until he was concentrating really hard to do something to me and then blast him.

 

[Edwardowan]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

... If the Jedi were as you presumably want, they'd be useless as defenders of anything. I'd just wait until he was concentrating really hard to do something to me and then blast him.

:lol I just pictured a Jedi with a grimace and grunting like he's constipated and just as he puts his hand up to use a force push you roll your eyes and blast him away ala Indiana Jones and the swordsman in Raiders of the Lost Ark
Well, the one thing I didn't like was the opening scene in The Phantom Menace where Qui-Gon is using the lightsaber to cut through the door and the droidekas show up and Obi and Qui-Gon take off running like The Flash. to me that was stoopid superhero stuff. just looked silly even. Jumping really fast (and looking solid doing it) is fine but running like The Flash in a transparent blur made me laugh out loud at that scene when I first saw it in the theater.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I don't get why everyone thinks the Prequel Jedi were like Superman. They weren't at all. They didn't do anything that Luke didn't do in ROTJ! The most far out thing you saw was Yoda capture the Force lightning and throw it back. Also Lucas has said numerous times that we never saw Jedi in their prime in the OT. Obi Wan and Vader were old men. So your idea of using the Force to be super hard to use is one, contrary to how it is described in the OT, and two based on two men who were old and barely human. If the Jedi were as you presumably want, they'd be useless as defenders of anything. I'd just wait until he was concentrating really hard to do something to me and then blast him.

Anakin jumped out of a moving Speeder, fell hundreds feet, landed on another moving speeder. I don't recall seeing Luke do anything of the sort in ROTJ.

 

[Edwardowan]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Anakin jumped out of a moving Speeder, fell hundreds feet, landed on another moving speeder. I don't recall seeing Luke do anything of the sort in ROTJ.

and not just any moving speeder but the one they had been chasing for miles amongst thousands and thousands of other speeders. clairvoyant enough to detect when that speeder would be blasting by hundreds of feet below and timing it just right to fall and land on it yet unable to sense so many other things... he is practically defeated and de-armed by the droid foundry machines which also broke his lightsaber yet Padme' easily navigates through it all until she falls into the melting pot.