Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[Mola Rob]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Anakin jumped out of a moving Speeder, fell hundreds feet, landed on another moving speeder. I don't recall seeing Luke do anything of the sort in ROTJ.

How could you forget that scene? He did that right after he was somehow able to withstand the heat during his prolonged battle with Darth Vader while floating down a molten river of lava. :lol

 

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, the one thing I didn't like was the opening scene in The Phantom Menace where Qui-Gon is using the lightsaber to cut through the door and the droidekas show up and Obi and Qui-Gon take off running like The Flash. to me that was stoopid superhero stuff. just looked silly even. Jumping really fast (and looking solid doing it) is fine but running like The Flash in a transparent blur made me laugh out loud at that scene when I first saw it in the theater.

Which they never did again...maybe Lucas had the same thought as you.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I don't get why everyone thinks the Prequel Jedi were like Superman. They weren't at all. They didn't do anything that Luke didn't do in ROTJ! The most far out thing you saw was Yoda capture the Force lightning and throw it back. Also Lucas has said numerous times that we never saw Jedi in their prime in the OT. Obi Wan and Vader were old men. So your idea of using the Force to be super hard to use is one, contrary to how it is described in the OT, and two based on two men who were old and barely human. If the Jedi were as you presumably want, they'd be useless as defenders of anything. I'd just wait until he was concentrating really hard to do something to me and then blast him.

The other guys addressed most of the egregious examples, but there's also Yoda and the Emperor tossing huge senate seats around, etc.

Let me put it this way. I accept that they're masters of sabre combat, and can deflect blaster bolts. I can accept that they can move stuff using the Force, and that "size matters not" except in your mind. But the lightspeed running, the "sabre lockpick," tossing enemies around left and right, it just gets to be too much and it's too easy to turn them into supermen without some kind of other check on their abilities.

I mean, consider some of the stuff seen in The Force Unleashed where the dude is like slicing AT-STs in half and pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky and whatnot. Where does it end? What's the limit on the Jedi? Vader struggles to rip bits off the walls in Bespin, yet Anakin could do all kinds of crazy crap, as could Yoda (including dance routines! ) and...why? It doesn't make sense and it's stupid as portrayed in the prequels. Jedi are like samurai with some mystical powers in the OT. In the PT they could be demigods.

And as for Lucas' comments....I don't care. I don't care one whit what Lucas said about something, if it's a bad idea. First, I don't care because it's not Lucas' property anymore. Second, I don't care because, as I see it, it's Lucas' worst ideas that ruined the franchise. The same way I don't care that Gene Roddenberry said that guys will wear skorts in the future because EQUALITY!!, I don't care that Lucas said blah blah blah about the Jedi being able to juggle planets or whatever. I don't care. He had some good ideas, but he had a lot of really BAD ideas, and now he's largely out of the picture. I disregard his bad ideas, and superpowered Jedi is a BAD idea from a storytelling perspective, particularly when you have a lot of them.

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

It also doesn't help that the Jedi as depicted in the prequel trilogy aren't good people.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Not to defend Lucas's choices, but as to "why" I think the answer was "because he can". Lucas by the prequel era was a technocrat as opposed to a storyteller.

 

[Mola Rob]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

And as for Lucas' comments....I don't care. I don't care one whit what Lucas said about something, if it's a bad idea. First, I don't care because it's not Lucas' property anymore. Second, I don't care because, as I see it, it's Lucas' worst ideas that ruined the franchise. The same way I don't care that Gene Roddenberry said that guys will wear skorts in the future because EQUALITY!!, I don't care that Lucas said blah blah blah about the Jedi being able to juggle planets or whatever. I don't care. He had some good ideas, but he had a lot of really BAD ideas, and now he's largely out of the picture. I disregard his bad ideas, and superpowered Jedi is a BAD idea from a storytelling perspective, particularly when you have a lot of them.

Good point on everything but especially this...I agree 100%. Many fans seem to think that if it came from Lucas it must be made of gold. Lucas was not just a good idea machine, he had an over abundance of bad ideas as well and he really needed someone to filter the good from the bad seeing as he had no way to objectively filter the ideas himself.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Again, he became more invested in the technology of film as opposed to the narrative of film.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Good point on everything but especially this...I agree 100%. Many fans seem to think that if it came from Lucas it must be made of gold. Lucas was not just a good idea machine, he had an over abundance of bad ideas as well and he really needed someone to filter the good from the bad seeing as he had no way to objectively filter the ideas himself.

Again, he became more invested in the technology of film as opposed to the narrative of film.

Exactly, on both counts. It's not that I think he's a talentless hack. I think he is talented, I think he had better counsel in the early days, but he moved away from that and was surrounded by people who just did his bidding. When you see raw, unvarnished Lucas on the screen....it's VERY different from the days when it was more of a collaborative creative process with people saying "That's really stupid. We should do something else" or "That's...ok...but it'd be AWESOME if we tweaked it this way..." And if you're totally focused on "But look at all the cool crap I can do with this green screen!" as opposed to the story, the story will suffer.

I'll say this for the PT. Much as I deride it for it's many, many failings, technologically, for its time, it was incredibly impressive. It's just that Lucas forgot or disregarded a saying he'd previously said: A special effect without a good story is a really boring thing.

 

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Let me put it this way. I accept that they're masters of sabre combat, and can deflect blaster bolts. I can accept that they can move stuff using the Force, and that "size matters not" except in your mind. But the lightspeed running, the "sabre lockpick," tossing enemies around left and right, it just gets to be too much and it's too easy to turn them into supermen without some kind of other check on their abilities.

It's not fair to bring up the lightsaber melting through the door in TPM in this argument. The lightsaber has nothing to do with the Force and has been able to cut through steel like butter since the OT. They may not have been melting steel per se, but they cut through support beams, railings, bits off the wall, flesh, speeder bikes, catwalks, and of course Tauntauns. I'm sure there's more, but this list is just off the top of my head.

I mean, consider some of the stuff seen in The Force Unleashed where the dude is like slicing AT-STs in half and pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky and whatnot. Where does it end? What's the limit on the Jedi?

Yea, TFU went above and far beyond what even the PT Jedi could do and even i thought it was stupid.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah, Qui-gon using his saber to melt the door seemed a reasonable application if saber tech as we knew it at the time. I actually thought that was really neat. In fact, aside from the quick Force speed bit, I thought the Jedi powers as depicted in TPM were reasonable. It was the next two movies where Lucas list his mind as to what they could do!

 

[Mola Rob]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The Jedi to me were ordinary people or beings who could channel the force within certain parameters, that's it. I know it's my opinion but the OT kind of made it clear that they were not supermen and/or superwomen and/or superthingies.

They were not stronger, faster, more able to take a beating, or make the perfect omelet every time. The Jedi should not have been able to jump a gazillion stories, fight in close proximity to lava that was probably well over 700 degrees, levitate objects for long period of times without exhausting themselves, free fall forever through thousands of objects moving a high speed, etc.

I know we were supposedly not seeing the Jedi in top form in the prequels but that does not make any sense either. Obi-Wan was what, eighteen to twenty years older? So what it's not like he was ancient in ROTS so he should have been far more spunky...and don't tell me this was explained in some novel, or cartoon, or comic, or scroll, or wall painting. If it's not on the screen I don't give a rats ass. I am not paying additional money to fill in the blanks of an underwritten movie. It was never mentioned in the movie that we were seeing broken down Jedi in the OT and I don't care what Lucas mentioned in one of his countless contradictory statements.

The prequels gave them too much power and yet made them out to be complete morons in the end...and don't tell me that was the intention of the story because it clearly wasn't.

Oh and I liked the Jedi lock pick as well. Don't see why it wouldn't be possible to stick a lightsaber in a door or wall and use it like a can opener.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

^ Pretty much.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

It's not the lockpick itself that's at issue. It's the fact that he can (A) stare at it and not go blind, and (B) not melt his freakin' hands off OR have his sabre melt when he's using sufficient heat to liquify the door.

That said, it WAS cool. The TPM Jedi stuff was ok. Not fantastic, but ok. They seemed decently powered and going up against weaker opponents (which raises separate issues, but never mind that for now).

But yeah, the lava fight, the physical resilience, the leaping tall buildings in a single bound and tossing around dirty great bits of the senate like it ain't no thing but a chicken wing....that's where it got silly. Cool looking on the one hand, but silly on the other.



They were really just handled very ineffectively in the prequels as characters. Write better characters, write a better story, and the superpowers become LESS of an issue. Tone down the superpowers and you're in much better shape.

 

[Mola Rob]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

It's not the lockpick itself that's at issue. It's the fact that he can (A) stare at it and not go blind, and (B) not melt his freakin' hands off OR have his sabre melt when he's using sufficient heat to liquify the door.

Good point, I never thought of the sabers not melting. What the heck are those things made of? Must be super duper JEDI metal!

 

[Gphalen]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Hollywood Reporter spoke to the creators of 'Phineas and Ferb' about their upcoming "Star Wars" episode:

THR: You're also doing a Star Wars crossover episode next year.

Povenmire: We are. The fact that they allowed us to do a Marvel crossover really emboldened us and as soon as we found out there was a merger with Lucasfilm, I literally drew on a Post-It a picture of Doofenshmirtz as Darth Vader and I took a picture of it and texted it to the head of the TV animation studio and said, "I smell crossover!" He wrote back and said, "I'm having lunch with the head of the channel right now. That was the first thing we started talking about." It happened very quickly apparently. Their pitch to [Disney chairman/CEO] Bob Iger was the picture [I drew]. I wasn't in this meeting but what we were told was Bob Iger said, "Oh yeah, we gotta get right on that." That was as much as it took.

The link has more of the interview.

Do you want Disney to produce DVD's and Blu-Rays of the "Droids" and "Ewoks" cartoons? Sign the petition at Change.Org!


and that's my fears of Disney buying the star wars coming true right there! Goofy Maul anyone?

 

[Edwardowan]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

but you can choose to ignore Goofy Maul and not watch it. Its not like Goofy Maul or Pluto Chewie are going to show up in the movies. People loved the Family Guy Something, Something, Something, Dark Side and Family Guy Blue Harvest and Family Guy Its a Trap and no one complained about those shows (among many others) and all the crazy Robot Chicken Star Wars crossovers so why even care what or how Disney uses star wars in their TV show lineup? Have you ever watched Phineas and Ferb? nor have I so any Star Wars reference they do is irrelevant. :rolleyes

Hollywood Reporter spoke to the creators of 'Phineas and Ferb' about their upcoming "Star Wars" episode:

THR: You're also doing a Star Wars crossover episode next year.

Povenmire: We are. The fact that they allowed us to do a Marvel crossover really emboldened us and as soon as we found out there was a merger with Lucasfilm, I literally drew on a Post-It a picture of Doofenshmirtz as Darth Vader and I took a picture of it and texted it to the head of the TV animation studio and said, "I smell crossover!" He wrote back and said, "I'm having lunch with the head of the channel right now. That was the first thing we started talking about." It happened very quickly apparently. Their pitch to [Disney chairman/CEO] Bob Iger was the picture [I drew]. I wasn't in this meeting but what we were told was Bob Iger said, "Oh yeah, we gotta get right on that." That was as much as it took.

The link has more of the interview.

Do you want Disney to produce DVD's and Blu-Rays of the "Droids" and "Ewoks" cartoons? Sign the petition at Change.Org!


and that's my fears of Disney buying the star wars coming true right there! Goofy Maul anyone?

 

[Edwardowan]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

This crossover happened and it was never an issue...

View attachment 220830

it was really funny! I might even watch the Phineas and Ferb Star Wars episode when it comes out just to see what they do!

 

[Lost21stJedi]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

but you can choose to ignore Goofy Maul and not watch it. Its not like Goofy Maul or Pluto Chewie are going to show up in the movies. People loved the Family Guy Something, Something, Something, Dark Side and Family Guy Blue Harvest and Family Guy Its a Trap and no one complained about those shows (among many others) and all the crazy Robot Chicken Star Wars crossovers so why even care what or how Disney uses star wars in their TV show lineup? Have you ever watched Phineas and Ferb? nor have I so any Star Wars reference they do is irrelevant. :rolleyes

Exactly. This is the same way I feel when I see the Star Wars Angry Bird figures. Not interested in them for myself but if some people like them, they can have them.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I was 3 when ESB came out and I even remember thinking that we weren't seeing the real Jedi because Obi Wan was old. I don't see how everyone else didn't get that and thought that Obi Wan was the pinnacle of Jedi power. So a lot of you really think that a Jedi should only do what Obi Wan was able to do? Really? That would get extremely boring.

Anakin jumped out of a moving Speeder, fell hundreds feet, landed on another moving speeder. I don't recall seeing Luke do anything of the sort in ROTJ.

No Luke fell down a the Cloud City shaft and somehow managed to "land" in a vent. He also fell from the AT-AT without getting injured. Using the Force to slow your fall isn't what I'd consider a super hero power. Also who's to say that the Force wasn't showing him when to jump to get to that speeder? It showed Luke his friends were in trouble.

I mean, consider some of the stuff seen in The Force Unleashed where the dude is like slicing AT-STs in half and pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky and whatnot. Where does it end? What's the limit on the Jedi? Vader struggles to rip bits off the walls in Bespin

Video games don't count, as Lucasfilm has repeatedly said, as to play mechanics (story is EU canon though). They're video games so Lucasfilm gives the developers leeway to make the game experience more fun. Jedi can use Force Lightning in video games, but it's not canon. The Force Unleashed, by the creators and Lucasfilm's admission, was made to be an over the top take on Jedi powers.

Vader was struggling? Huh? It didn't look like he was having any trouble other than to get the stuff to actually rip free of the wall. He was having no trouble throwing it. Also Lucas had a reference thing for the Jedi telling exactly what the limits of the Jedi were, but it hasn't been published. The bits that were mentioned said how many battledroids, super battledroids, etc. that they could take on and survive. It said how high they could jump, fall, etc.

And as for Lucas' comments....I don't care. I don't care one whit what Lucas said about something, if it's a bad idea.

You can personally not care all you want, but it's his universe. He came up with the rules, not the fans. I seriously doubt that Disney will completely change things that were set as the rules for SW characters, vehicles, etc. by Lucas.


When we have Jedi taking off and flying around, shooting lasers from their eyes, breaking through walls with their fists, etc. then I will agree, but I think they're fine now. I mean really, some of you are upset about using a lightsaber to cut through a blast door or running fast, but not shooting electricity from your fingers???

 

[Edwardowan]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I mean really, some of you are upset about using a lightsaber to cut through a blast door or running fast, but not shooting electricity from your fingers???

drats, ya got me there... but you know, Vader did kind of fly when he lunged off the bespin carbon chamber platform at Luke... looked so silly even then. you could tell he was lowered down with wires. But I was 13... don't recall much of anything when I was three let alone how I felt or thought about a movie! Seems you may have super jedi powers! :lol