Hello everyone,
In this thread, I'd like to hear people's opinions on an issue of seller responsibility. I've posted it here because the issue has come up over a recent SW prop deal gone bad between myself and Diego86.
However, I think that the implications of this problem go beyond this individual case and stretch to a general question that is important to buying and selling within the RPF community.
Whenever I've sold a product on the RPF (or anywhere on the internet) I've always been of the belief that it was my responsibility as the seller to deliver the product to my customer. When shipping problems occur, I assumed the responsibility to make it right. The way I see it, the job of the buyer is to pay for the item and to make sure that the money gets to the seller. The job of the seller is to ship the item to the buyer and make sure the product gets to the buyer. When I've sold items on the RPF that have gotten lost or damaged, I either refunded the buyer's money or I replaced the damaged item. I don't think it's ethical for a seller to keep a payment when a package does not get delivered. I don't think I'm alone on this
When I ask the google hive mind "Who is responsible if a package get's lost?" I get a clear answer "SELLER"
who is responsible when a package gets lost - Google Search
Now, as to the specifics of the dispute between Diego86 and me.
On October 24th, I sent Diego86 $193.15 through paypal for an original Exactra 19 bubble lens. The breakdown was 140€ + 15€ shipping. I paid F&F on paypal since Diego86 is a member on the RPF in good standing and since I didn't expect to have to file a claim against him.
He shipped the lens on the 25th, choosing the cheapest way possible, spending 8.60€ on shipping, and keeping the rest of the shipping money for himself.
According to USPS tracking, the package cleared customs on November 10th, but it never showed up at my door and there is no history of the shipment in the USPS system after that.
Since then, I've e-mailed my postal service several times and called them as well. But, they cannot provide me with any help. Also, since I was not the seller or shipper, I can't file a claim or seek any redress. I asked Diego to try and help on his end, but he's replied that there's no point since he's sure his post office can't do anything. I've asked him to contact the USPS. But to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't done anything on his end.
Today, I contacted him and told him that since the package is lost, and since the item is unique, I would like my money refunded. He responded that it's not his fault that the post office lost the package, and that since I paid via F&F he's not refunding my money. I told him that the seller is responsible for the shipment. "The way I see it, if I sell an item and it never gets delivered to my customer, I don't get to just keep his money and say 'oh well, your loss.'" He responded that he doesn't see it that way.
Diego argues that he's not responsible for the shipment because I did not pay him extra for insurance. I find fault with this claim for two reasons.
First off, shipping insurance is for the seller, not the buyer!
When I sell property, on the RPF or otherwise, I insure my shipment in order to protect myself, not my customer.
If the package gets lost, I can claim the insurance and get reimbursed the money that I'm out. It's not his responsibility to buy insurance to make sure he gets what he paid for. That just sounds crazy to me!
Secondly, I actually did send Diego more money than the 8.60€ that he spent on shipping. I paid him 15€ for shipping. And I also paid the Paypal fees on the transaction, so he received the full amount. He paid 8.60€ for shipping and kept the change for himself, choosing not to insure the package with the extra money that I had sent nor to refund the change to me.
He's stopped responding to me in our private conversation. So, I'm bringing this issue to a public forum to ask what everyone here thinks. Is the seller responsible for getting the item to his customer or not? If I sell an item and my buyer never gets it, do I get to keep his money?
In this thread, I'd like to hear people's opinions on an issue of seller responsibility. I've posted it here because the issue has come up over a recent SW prop deal gone bad between myself and Diego86.
However, I think that the implications of this problem go beyond this individual case and stretch to a general question that is important to buying and selling within the RPF community.
Whenever I've sold a product on the RPF (or anywhere on the internet) I've always been of the belief that it was my responsibility as the seller to deliver the product to my customer. When shipping problems occur, I assumed the responsibility to make it right. The way I see it, the job of the buyer is to pay for the item and to make sure that the money gets to the seller. The job of the seller is to ship the item to the buyer and make sure the product gets to the buyer. When I've sold items on the RPF that have gotten lost or damaged, I either refunded the buyer's money or I replaced the damaged item. I don't think it's ethical for a seller to keep a payment when a package does not get delivered. I don't think I'm alone on this
When I ask the google hive mind "Who is responsible if a package get's lost?" I get a clear answer "SELLER"
who is responsible when a package gets lost - Google Search
Now, as to the specifics of the dispute between Diego86 and me.
On October 24th, I sent Diego86 $193.15 through paypal for an original Exactra 19 bubble lens. The breakdown was 140€ + 15€ shipping. I paid F&F on paypal since Diego86 is a member on the RPF in good standing and since I didn't expect to have to file a claim against him.
He shipped the lens on the 25th, choosing the cheapest way possible, spending 8.60€ on shipping, and keeping the rest of the shipping money for himself.
According to USPS tracking, the package cleared customs on November 10th, but it never showed up at my door and there is no history of the shipment in the USPS system after that.
Since then, I've e-mailed my postal service several times and called them as well. But, they cannot provide me with any help. Also, since I was not the seller or shipper, I can't file a claim or seek any redress. I asked Diego to try and help on his end, but he's replied that there's no point since he's sure his post office can't do anything. I've asked him to contact the USPS. But to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't done anything on his end.
Today, I contacted him and told him that since the package is lost, and since the item is unique, I would like my money refunded. He responded that it's not his fault that the post office lost the package, and that since I paid via F&F he's not refunding my money. I told him that the seller is responsible for the shipment. "The way I see it, if I sell an item and it never gets delivered to my customer, I don't get to just keep his money and say 'oh well, your loss.'" He responded that he doesn't see it that way.
Diego argues that he's not responsible for the shipment because I did not pay him extra for insurance. I find fault with this claim for two reasons.
First off, shipping insurance is for the seller, not the buyer!
When I sell property, on the RPF or otherwise, I insure my shipment in order to protect myself, not my customer.
If the package gets lost, I can claim the insurance and get reimbursed the money that I'm out. It's not his responsibility to buy insurance to make sure he gets what he paid for. That just sounds crazy to me!
Secondly, I actually did send Diego more money than the 8.60€ that he spent on shipping. I paid him 15€ for shipping. And I also paid the Paypal fees on the transaction, so he received the full amount. He paid 8.60€ for shipping and kept the change for himself, choosing not to insure the package with the extra money that I had sent nor to refund the change to me.
He's stopped responding to me in our private conversation. So, I'm bringing this issue to a public forum to ask what everyone here thinks. Is the seller responsible for getting the item to his customer or not? If I sell an item and my buyer never gets it, do I get to keep his money?
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