Is the seller responsible when a package goes missing or can he keep the buyer's money? Found parts deal gone bad with Diego86

[Spyhunter2k]

The seller is responsible for ensuring the item makes it to you in cases where both seller and buyer are located in the same country, and the same shipping company or postal service handles the item. In these cases, the seller can reasonably look into whatever shipping problems occur and file whatever claims are necessary to rectify the situation.

In cases where the buyer and seller are in different countries, though, the item is transferred from one postal service to another (not handled by an international outfit like FedEx across both countries), and it gets lost only once in the possession of the buyer's postal service, it's not quite the same story.

If I sell something to someone in Bulgaria, for example, ship it there via USPS, and it doesn't fall off tracking until it's deep into Bulgaria, being lost by the buyer's own postal service, that's not something I as the seller can easily look into or resolve. Making early morning phone calls to Bulgaria and hoping to find someone who speaks English...that's just not practical.

So in these situations the seller should provide the buyer all the info needed for the buyer to contact his own country's postal service. If the buyer's postal service has irretrievably lost the item, the seller should file whatever claim they can from their end, but their own postal service may not make it right, since they did their job and the item only became lost when handed over to the buyer's postal service. So if the claim is rejected, the seller can't really be expected the take the full hit caused by the buyer's postal service's incompetence. In these cases I think it fairer to split the loss.

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

I'll be honest, & probably come across as an @$$... I have nothing but sympathy & compassion for those who have dealt with the trauma described, having dealt with it multiple times in my own family,


BUT,


I'm not sure how today's events affect an issue that's been brewing over a month, & again, having gone through it myself, I'm almost upset that it would be brought up simply to elicit sympathy in the court of public opinion.



BTW, seller is responsible.

 

[falloutboy]

I'll be honest, & probably come across as an @$$... I have nothing but sympathy & compassion for those who have dealt with the trauma described, having dealt with it multiple times in my own family,


BUT,


I'm not sure how today's events affect an issue that's been brewing over a month, & again, having gone through it myself, I'm almost upset that it would be brought up simply to elicit sympathy in the court of public opinion.



BTW, seller is responsible.

Agreed.
If you - as the seller- fail to insure something - especially over $100- unless the buyer agrees explicitly to accepting the loss if it doesn't show on his end- then you should be returning their money- or sending a new item. End of story.
I don't care what the justification is- it's BS and crappy business.

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

I just heard that Diego's daughter is ok. The statement "my second daughter was born 34 weeks premature" was a translation error, I think. She was actually born AT 34 WEEKS. So one month premature, which means she'll be ok. Thank God.

 

[Jlewis]

If you used a credit card as source for the PayPal transaction, file a claim with the credit card company.

 

[The Portugeek]

I’ll jump in with my 2 cents for all it matters.
First, I hope you guys resolve the situation.

I ship a lot of things, if the shipping option selected by the buyer is that of no tracking and no insurance then once it is out of my hands it is just that “out of my hands” if the post loses it… if a porch pirate steals it… insurance is there for a reason.

If insurance and tracking was selected and the package went missing then it’s the sellers responsibility to contact the postal service and file a claim.
The insurance money would either be used to cover a replacement or refund the buyer.

 

[signeddiamond]

Such a shame to see this play out this way. Really there was no need to name names before a consensus was reached as it only assured that regardless of the outcome there is a lasting negative reflection of this person on the Internet. Not something I would wish on anybody and especially not over a shipping dispute for a calculator part.

That being said, unless the buyer deliberately requests a shipping method it is always the seller responsible. If I buy a dish at a nice restaurant and as it is being walked over to me the waiter tumbles and the food falls to the floor it would not be on me to pay for the ruined food. The owner eats that cost and maybe penalizes the waiter. It’s a situation that does not involve the customer whatsoever until the goods are delivered in the agreed upon condition.

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

First off, naming names was the only option that I'd been left with. Diego held all the cards. He still does. And before this thread began, he considered this matter settled. He was keeping the money and I was getting nothing. Also, Diego agreed with me in our private chats that discussing it openly was the right thing to do. "publish this wherever you want because I am interested in knowing the opinions of others on this type of issue. I have nothing to hide."

Secondly, in my eyes, in order to create a community where members feel like they are safe working with each other, transparency is essential. We live and die by our reputations here. And if different members have completely contrary perspectives about who is responsible to deliver what in a given transaction, it is really important to know where each person stands before working with each other.

I operate on the basis that, as a seller, I am responsible for delivering my product to my customers, once they deliver their money to me. If they don't get my product, I don't get to keep their money.
If I'm buying from someone who thinks "once it is out of my hands it is just that 'out of my hands'" I would certainly want to know that before ever turning over my money to him.

 

[Marv]

If you used a credit card as source for the PayPal transaction, file a claim with the credit card company.

Would that work given the payment was made as friends or family so technically a gift?

I have to agree with the concensus here that the seller should put this right.

 

[alensatemybuick]

When someone who is neither my friend nor my family asks me to use that option to save HIM Paypal fees while at the same time giving up MY PayPal protections, I run away as fast as I can. Charge me more. Ask ME to pay the damned fees if that‘s how you roll. But screw the cheapskate seller who asks me to prioritize maximizing HIS profit over my own peace of mind. I’m saying anyone who even asks a buyer to do that STINKS ON ICE and I wouldn’t do business with him no matter how much I want the damned maguffin.

Guess why I feel so strongly about this.

 

[ajaxjones]

In my opinion as a seller it is 100% your responsibilty to ensure the customer gets what they have ordered. If that means you take out insurance or want to gamble on it going missing that is your call as the seller. It's a gamble for cheaper postage, but you have to take the hit if it doesnt work out. Pretty much all UK royal mail postage overseas, if its tracked, comes with insurance as I would guess most services provide with tracking so its not worth scrimping on the cost. Doesn't matter if its next door, or the other side of the world its the seller that has to deliver, otherwise what stops anyone from just not sending something or doing the broken address trick. Try and non-deliver on eBay and they'll always side on the buyer if proof of delivery can't be shown. I'd lodge it with paypal too before the time gets too long, they might still step in if you lay out all the instructions you were provided. I had a paypal account frozen once for a week with all funds held until I could prove I was a business after a customer sent a thank you beer payment by F&F. (Some thank you LOL)

 

[Moviefreak]

Without doubt, if I sell something and I choose to save a few bucks and skip the insurance, that is ON ME. I don’t care if I miscalculated the cost for postage, and I end up paying $10-$15 extra out of my profit to cover insurance, that is something I always do just so I never find myself in a situation like this. If I skip insurance and it gets damaged or lost, the buyer should not be responsible for anything other than receiving a refund. It was my fault for not insuring upfront.

 

[Borg69]

“According to USPS tracking, the package cleared customs on November 10th, but it never showed up at my door and there is no history of the shipment in the USPS system after that.”


I don’t know what countries are involved but I would definitely be leary of dealing with customs in any form. I’ve never heard good things about getting stuff through customs.

 

[Jintosh]

“According to USPS tracking, the package cleared customs on November 10th, but it never showed up at my door and there is no history of the shipment in the USPS system after that.”


I don’t know what countries are involved but I would definitely be leary of dealing with customs in any form. I’ve never heard good things about getting stuff through customs.

If the tracking reported that it had been delivered, and Porch Pirates took it, I can see how that could be different. But, Lost in the mail is the sellers responsibility. How could the buyer ever confirm that there wasn't a BRICK in the package that they did not receive? The buyer did NOT receive the merchandise that they purchased. That's really the only relevant fact in the case that I quoted.

That being said, if seller refunds and the package shows up, then the buyer MUST repay the seller. The buyer can not keep the refund and the merchandise.

 

[Patriot666]

If the tracking reported that it had been delivered, and Porch Pirates took it, I can see how that could be different. But, Lost in the mail is the sellers responsibility. How could the buyer ever confirm that there wasn't a BRICK in the package that they did not receive? The buyer did NOT receive the merchandise that they purchased. That's really the only relevant fact in the case that I quoted.

That being said, if seller refunds and the package shows up, then the buyer MUST repay the seller. The buyer can not keep the refund and the merchandise.

I had this situation happen. Purchased from another trusted seller on a forum, paid with F&F, package tracking showed delivered but it hadn't been. Long story, but pretty sure my USPS guy stole it. He was actually fired or replaced after the investigation. Anyways due to the funding source I used I was able to claim and win the refund of funds. As the buyer, you're not responsible for anything if you don't receive the package. The seller hadn't paid for insurance either, otherwise he would've gotten his money back as well. Since I felt that neither of us were in the wrong and had basically been robbed, I sent him half the funds back and split the loss. My point, even if a package is stolen the seller is responsible. Buy insurance no matter what when you sell for an amount you can't stand to lose. Sellers that take F&F and think they can just wash their hands of any issues afterwards is pretty scummy IMO.

 

[XweAponX]

I am sorry to bust in here, I have been a lurker in here for several years and I don’t think I have ever posted. But I have had considerable trouble with USPS (and UPS) as a shipper and a receiver. Now, before the USPS era of DeJoy, there was automatic insurance on every package shipped at the lowest rate. $100. The responsibility of the shipper and shipper only to ask for it. I got that information from my local postmaster. But I think they may have changed their policy, I found this information although I don’t know if this is from a USPS source, so I would definitely go to a post office and ask, is there still some default insurance on items shipped with the lowest rate?

Are USPS Packages Insured? (All You Need To Know)

The United States Postal Service has some of the most affordable shipping services out there. You may wonder: are USPS packages insured?

querysprout.com

As far as dealing with customs, I have bought many things from across the pond, both ponds, customs coming into the United States is very bad and sometimes a simple letter can be held for up to six months. And this is usually why you don’t see any movement with a tracking number after it scans in at a customs near you. I don’t know how this is with customs going into another country, into the UK. I have had to wait for up to a month for items to clear customs at LAX in California.

But it occurs to me that your package may have disappeared into the black hole that is customs. Don’t lose your tracking number. It sounds to me that your package never scanned out of your local customs. There will be tracking info when it was scanned IN to customs and then there will be nothing until it LEAVES customs. That is at least how it works with items coming to me, here in California. And there is nothing that the receiver can do. There is nothing that the shipper can do, either, although the shipper is in a better position to find out. So my advice is to look back at the tracking and see exactly where it dropped off the map. Because it is a good possibility it is still sitting in customs.

Meanwhile, there is this humorous story:

I just purchased an item from Amazon that had to be shipped from China. I am near San Diego, California. Package was sent to Chicago customs where it stayed for a week. After that it was sent to somewhere in Tennessee, and then to Phoenix Arizona. Then they sent it all the way up to Portland Oregon and then back down to California. And the shipper could not be bothered with finding out why it was taking that erratic route. But imagine my surprise one morning after not seeing any movement on the package for almost a week, it shows up at my local post office and I had it before noon?

What I am saying is don’t lose hope, the package may not actually be lost and there may be a way to claim insurance on it. But I don’t know, it has been a long time since I dealt with the US post office on a shipping matter.

I hope some of this is helpful.

 

[XweAponX]

“According to USPS tracking, the package cleared customs on November 10th, but it never showed up at my door and there is no history of the shipment in the USPS system after that.”


I don’t know what countries are involved but I would definitely be leary of dealing with customs in any form. I’ve never heard good things about getting stuff through customs.

This is what I was looking for, did it clear customs going into customs or did it clear going out of customs? Because if the item just vanished at that point I will wager that it didn’t clear customs at all and that it is still there. otherwise you would have seen daily movement ever since that date.

 

[docholl]

NEVER use PayPal Friends and Family. ALWAYS pay with a Credit Card. ALWAYS pay for INSURANCE.

That's It.

 

[The Goon]

...Meanwhile, there is this humorous story:

I just purchased an item from Amazon that had to be shipped from China. I am near San Diego, California. Package was sent to Chicago customs where it stayed for a week. After that it was sent to somewhere in Tennessee, and then to Phoenix Arizona. Then they sent it all the way up to Portland Oregon and then back down to California. And the shipper could not be bothered with finding out why it was taking that erratic route. But imagine my surprise one morning after not seeing any movement on the package for almost a week, it shows up at my local post office and I had it before noon?

I wear hats and caps regularly, and have placed three orders (separately, months apart) from a shop in San Diego; my wife and I live approximately 15 miles east of downtown Los Angeles. For whatever reason, all three orders shipped from San Diego and landed at one of two USPS routing centers in Los Angeles or City of Industry, then were returned to the shipper in San Diego for no apparent reason. When they were shipped the second time, they arrived with no problems. And the only explanation offered by the USPS was that they were "misrouted". Exactly the same way on three different occasions???

 

[XweAponX]

I wear hats and caps regularly, and have placed three orders (separately, months apart) from a shop in San Diego; my wife and I live approximately 15 miles east of downtown Los Angeles. For whatever reason, all three orders shipped from San Diego and landed at one of two USPS routing centers in Los Angeles or City of Industry, then were returned to the shipper in San Diego for no apparent reason. When they were shipped the second time, they arrived with no problems. And the only explanation offered by the USPS was that they were "misrouted". Exactly the same way on three different occasions???

When did this start happening I will bet any money it is within the last couple of years. There has to be a way of getting rid of DeJoy. It is because of him I have stopped using USPS for shipping, 100%. At this time I will even use UPS over them and I hate UPS. Anything that comes into the country though has to go through customs. And I think that’s a little bit different department, equally difficult to deal with