Hollywood’s current state of failure and the reasons for it

[Cephus]

Agreed: why is it that rather than creating their own properties for these woke characters and ideas, they instead hijack, distort and inevitably ruin existing franchises that aren't?

And even worse: what do they pan on doing when they've used up all the franchises to do this and have none left?

Because they know they would fail. Marvel and DC spent years trying to come up with new superheroes and almost every attempt failed because they had no idea what made the heroes they already had popular. Therefore, they started making gay and gender-swapped and race-swapped versions of existing characters and in most cases, readers revolted. They have been on a hunt for readers that don't exist for years now and they can't figure out that the people who were screaming for diversity, those aren't their paying customers, they are people who move like locusts from group to group, demanding change and then moving on without spending a penny.

It's no wonder the comic industry is in such a state these days. The film industry isn't far behind.

 

[Birdie]

Exactly. They want to appeal to progressive audiences but are completeley risk averse to actually creating new properties. In an alternate universe cats are opressed, so they are making Angora and the Seven Tabbies. That sounds quite good though.

 

[Cephus]

Exactly. They want to appeal to progressive audiences but are completeley risk averse to actually creating new properties. In an alternate universe cats are opressed, so they are making Angora and the Seven Tabbies. Though that sounds quite good.

The problem is, woke audiences don't have any money or any interest in supporting anything. They are keyboard warriors with no jobs. Hollywood (and others) have chosen to pander to them, but there is no money there. It was an idiotic decision and they are paying for it.

 

[Birdie]

It's a cry for help.

 

[batguy]

The problem is, woke audiences don't have any money or any interest in supporting anything. They are keyboard warriors with no jobs. Hollywood (and others) have chosen to pander to them, but there is no money there. It was an idiotic decision and they are paying for it.

That's on the studios though. Giant multinationals are not being pressured into anything by blue-haired kids in Youtube comments sections and actors on red carpets. The studios are courting those demographics of their own free will.

 

[VonMagnum]

Is it free will or is it MegaMind!??!

 

[ghostryder]

VFX Pros Expose The Hidden Costs of Selling a Movie as “Real”

Sometimes studios issue directives that when it comes to marketing a film, “there will be no discussion of VFX. … We don’t want to overshadow the actors,” says one industry vet.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

 

[Psab keel]

Spin? More like, outright lies. Look, this whole mess doesn't affect me directly, but when you see powerful people acting with total impunity and then continuing to double down on their idiocy it's evident they'll never learn. It would be one thing if they were some small company where it only affected a few people, but they employ thousands. It's not fair to them or their shareholders who are being lied to, as evidenced by that article posted a page or two back regarding their lawsuit against them.

I know there's a few members here who will blindly defend Disney no matter what they do, or whine about people calling them out, but it's getting to the point where this company is doing things that are criminal and they should rightly be held accountable. This company is a textbook example on how not to run a business. And before I see a post from one of the apologists, consider the fact that there are industry professionals in this very forum who are negatively impacted by this kind of false reporting on their financials/ viewership, so what does your defense say to them?

That kind of thing smacks of cheering on Goliath while David is slinging rocks.

Analyst Declares "The Walt Disney Company Media Spin Machine Is In Full Force" After Company Claimed 'Ahsoka' Brought In 14 Million Views Globally For First Episode

Financial and box office analyst Valliant Renegade declared The Walt Disney Company was putting out some major spin when they announced that their latest Star Wars Disney+ series brought in 14 million views globally.

boundingintocomics.com

 

[VonMagnum]

Spin? More like, outright lies. Look, this whole mess doesn't affect me directly, but when you see powerful people acting with total impunity and then continuing to double down on their idiocy it's evident they'll never learn. It would be one thing if they were some small company where it only affected a few people, but they employ thousands. It's not fair to them or their shareholders who are being lied to, as evidenced by that article posted a page or two back regarding their lawsuit against them.

I know there's a few members here who will blindly defend Disney no matter what they do, or whine about people calling them out, but it's getting to the point where this company is doing things that are criminal and they should rightly be held accountable. This company is a textbook example on how not to run a business. And before I see a post from one of the apologists, consider the fact that there are industry professionals in this very forum who are negatively impacted by this kind of false reporting on their financials/ viewership, so what does your defense say to them?

That kind of thing smacks of cheering on Goliath while David is slinging rocks.

Analyst Declares "The Walt Disney Company Media Spin Machine Is In Full Force" After Company Claimed 'Ahsoka' Brought In 14 Million Views Globally For First Episode

Financial and box office analyst Valliant Renegade declared The Walt Disney Company was putting out some major spin when they announced that their latest Star Wars Disney+ series brought in 14 million views globally.

boundingintocomics.com

Well, if they fail big enough long enough, they'll likely eventually be pressured to sell off 20th Century Fox and maybe, just maybe someone less incompetent will buy it (too many studios in too few hands right now). But I doubt it. Pixar might get sold. It's doing awful lately (Steve Jobs spinning in his grave again).

George Lucas sold out for money to Disney, after all and come on, he didn't need the money. How much is just ridiculous "my net worth is bigger than yours" billionaire BS? He could have sold it for a bit less with some options for a final say over the storylines while he's alive (not that his prequels were insanely great, but I liked them better than what we got). But what incentive is there to own say Indy rights when they have no "intention" of making another Indy movie with someone else? Amusement park rides and possibly video games is about it. Let's face it. Once they've ruined it, it's ruined. You have to try to pretend Crystal Skull or Dial of Destiny or the prequels/sequels to Star Wars don't exist.

It's a bit easier doing that with Classic Disney animation as the live action remakes are just re-tellings of the same story. The only one I watched/bought was Beauty and the Beast and that was purely because of Emma Watson playing the lead and the fact I've never watched the original animation or most Disney animation since the 1980s other than Pixar. That (and 3D) probably made it seem better than it was. Frankly, as far as Disney animation goes, ruining The Black Cauldron was the last straw; I loved that book series and it was not woke, but kiddified to death. That Prydain Series of 5 books could be made to be comparable to LOTR if done properly on-screen and unlike LOTR, the books are much easier to fit everything in without being 5 hours long each. I think the point was Old Disney kiddified properties to death. New Disney diversifies them to death.

For good or bad, I read Disney is thinking of doing live action Prydain movies, finally. If they'd hire Peter Jackson to do them, they might turn out well. They need modified to be less junior teen reading and more adult to approach LOTR caliber. They were great plots, but not written as well as they could have been, perhaps. Since he likes to modify, this would be a good opportunity, but it needs to go directly opposite of the animated Black Cauldron. I don't know if they could get 5 movies out of it, probably 3 or 4 since Taran Wanderer was pretty slow paced compared to the rest and The Book of Three was pretty short plot wise.

 

[blewis17]

In case anyone is wondering, 2023 Disney's Haunted Mansion box office numbers:

All Releases
DOMESTIC (68%)
$62,755,567

INTERNATIONAL (32%)
$29,598,105

WORLDWIDE
$92,353,672

 

[VonMagnum]

In case anyone is wondering, 2023 Disney's Haunted Mansion box office numbers:

All Releases
DOMESTIC (68%)
$62,755,567

INTERNATIONAL (32%)
$29,598,105

WORLDWIDE
$92,353,672

It needs $300 million to break even. $150 million budget.

2003 "bad" Eddie Murphy version
Box office: $182 Million (2003 dollars).
$92 million budget.


I guess the Eddie Murphy version was better than Disney thought?

Try reading the 2023 reviews. Glowing reviews as best they could make it. Such a diverse cast. Such divergent ideas! Such a freaking snooze of a movie....

 

[blewis17]

It needs $300 million to break even. $150 million budget.

2003 "bad" Eddie Murphy version
Box office: $182 Million (2003 dollars).
$92 million budget.


I guess the Eddie Murphy version was better than Disney thought?

Try reading the 2023 reviews. Glowing reviews as best they could make it. Such a diverse cast. Such divergent ideas! Such a freaking snooze of a movie....

Now, I haven't seen this new version. But it seems they really missed the mark here, or simply did not know whom they were targeting. Disney fans? Families in general? People wanting to see a comedy? Horror fans? Goth kids who flock to the Haunted Mansion attraction at Halloween?

 

[pengbuzz]

Spin? More like, outright lies. Look, this whole mess doesn't affect me directly, but when you see powerful people acting with total impunity and then continuing to double down on their idiocy it's evident they'll never learn. It would be one thing if they were some small company where it only affected a few people, but they employ thousands. It's not fair to them or their shareholders who are being lied to, as evidenced by that article posted a page or two back regarding their lawsuit against them.

I know there's a few members here who will blindly defend Disney no matter what they do, or whine about people calling them out, but it's getting to the point where this company is doing things that are criminal and they should rightly be held accountable. This company is a textbook example on how not to run a business. And before I see a post from one of the apologists, consider the fact that there are industry professionals in this very forum who are negatively impacted by this kind of false reporting on their financials/ viewership, so what does your defense say to them?

That kind of thing smacks of cheering on Goliath while David is slinging rocks.

Analyst Declares "The Walt Disney Company Media Spin Machine Is In Full Force" After Company Claimed 'Ahsoka' Brought In 14 Million Views Globally For First Episode

Financial and box office analyst Valliant Renegade declared The Walt Disney Company was putting out some major spin when they announced that their latest Star Wars Disney+ series brought in 14 million views globally.

boundingintocomics.com

Right? And look what happened to Goliath?

The "apologists" can say whatever they like and even hold up a few examples that are hand-picked to "prove their point to their satisfaction. The problem is: when they run out of franchises to bastardize and end up grinding the properties thoroughly into the mud (via transforming them into poisonous woke doppelgangers and toxic simulacrums of their former selves) then the "Hollywood Machine" will be finished. And at the end, the bitter lesson will be:

Spoiler

PEOPLE DO NOT WANT "DEI/ WOKE". GET OVER IT. STOP PUSHING IT DOWN THEIR THROATS.

 

[VonMagnum]

Now, I haven't seen this new version. But it seems they really missed the mark here, or simply did not know whom they were targeting. Disney fans? Families in general? People wanting to see a comedy? Horror fans? Goth kids who flock to the Haunted Mansion attraction at Halloween?

I think Cephus is right. Their target market are the 19 Non-Binary Social Justice Warriors who have no job and are living in their parents' basement (plus MovieFreak) that have been spam bombing their email boxes and mailboxes with scathing letters how their movies are evil white toxic male movies that no one on Earth wants to watch!

Disney apparently thinks thousands of repeating spam mails represent millions of untapped viewers. Well, they probably are untapped.... That's why they're so grumpy....

 

[HeartBlade]

George Lucas sold out for money to Disney, after all and come on, he didn't need the money. How much is just ridiculous "my net worth is bigger than yours" billionaire BS? He could have sold it for a bit less with some options for a final say over the storylines while he's alive (not that his prequels were insanely great, but I liked them better than what we got). But what incentive is there to own say Indy rights when they have no "intention" of making another Indy movie with someone else? Amusement park rides and possibly video games is about it. Let's face it. Once they've ruined it, it's ruined. You have to try to pretend Crystal Skull or Dial of Destiny or the prequels/sequels to Star Wars don't exist.

I think the story here is a little different iirc. George had offers but Iger convinced him to sell to Disney so:
- his staff would be taken care of after he retires knowing George was done with filmmaking.
- George also included treatments for ST in the sale which he assumed would be used as the basis for ST.

Its not his fault that Iger and Kennedy ****** him over by dumping the treatments and had Abrams draft something completely new. He was furious when Abrams came in and asked to review the script for TFA and found very little of his stuff in the scripts, hence the “white slavers” comment.

It's a bit easier doing that with Classic Disney animation as the live action remakes are just re-tellings of the same story. The only one I watched/bought was Beauty and the Beast and that was purely because of Emma Watson playing the lead and the fact I've never watched the original animation or most Disney animation since the 1980s other than Pixar. That (and 3D) probably made it seem better than it was. Frankly, as far as Disney animation goes, ruining The Black Cauldron was the last straw; I loved that book series and it was not woke, but kiddified to death. That Prydain Series of 5 books could be made to be comparable to LOTR if done properly on-screen and unlike LOTR, the books are much easier to fit everything in without being 5 hours long each. I think the point was Old Disney kiddified properties to death. New Disney diversifies them to death.

Disney animation used to be good but that was when they made adaptations. They started to sink after having several flops with Emperors New Groove and the like and even now, their animated film performances are mixed. The golden days of banger followed by banger are long gone.

The centralization of studios was just bad in general with regulatory agencies asleep at the wheel yet again (seriously moronic. Why even have regulation if you arnt busting these monopolies). Even if the movies were good, you basically would only have three major studios determining all of western entertainment and what is good and what is bad.

 

[pengbuzz]

I think Cephus is right. Their target market are the 19 Non-Binary Social Justice Warriors who have no job and are living in their parents' basement (plus MovieFreak) that have been spam bombing their email boxes and mailboxes with scathing letters how their movies are evil white toxic male movies that no one on Earth wants to watch!

Disney apparently thinks thousands of repeating spam mails represent millions of untapped viewers. Well, they probably are untapped.... That's why they're so grumpy....

But the BIG QUESTION is:

Spoiler

Are their parents' basements vegan?

 

[Psab keel]

While Disney is at the center of this discussion, and it may get tiresome to hear their name being brought up all the time, but when they own so many IP's, networks, and tons of other companies they acquired, they're going to come up in conversation. It doesn't help them any that they continually make incendiary remarks against their customers (years of talking down to fans by labeling them racists -insert isms here-), their employees (Iger telling the writers/ actors on strike that their demands are unreasonable and that he wants to replace all of them with AI) and they keep making tone deaf business decisions to the point where even the shareholders are being lied to (the lawsuit where the shareholders are sueing for Disney's falsification of profits).

This is how consequences look, Mr. Iger.

I've long said that money and influence can only insulate a company or person for so long before it'll catch up to them. The truth always comes out in the end. I know people will say that Hollywood has always been corrupt, but that's not an excuse to defend or deflect from Disney's actions. It wasn't right then, and it's certainly not right now. I suppose for better or worse we have better access to what's really going on. The thing is this is no longer some crackpot conspiracy theory. The mainstream media is reporting on this stuff on a regular basis now. The people rose up to behead the French monarchy when they ignored the pleas of the people, and now the same is metaphorically happening in Hollywood.

I only stepped back into this discussion because I happened to see this latest article about the numbers for Ashoka. Just as an FYI for those who will dismiss the article as clickbait, a third party data tracking firm, Samba TV, is reporting that the viewership for the show is 1.2 million over the course of the first six days of the show's premiere despite Disney sending an official press release claiming the show had 14 million views.

Imagine what it must feel like to have your balls gilded to have the nerve to lie like that?

pengbuzz - the walls may be dairy free, but are they soy free?

 

[VonMagnum]

Well, I've seen plenty of vegans eating meat only to deny they weren't actually eating it....

 

[janglesworthy]

14 million views? Are the including torrent downloads as views?

 

[Psab keel]

14 million views? Are the including torrent downloads as views?

Those pesky Russian Bots that they claimed were what caused the negative ratings on Rotten Tomatoes back in 2017, well it turns out they're good for more than a just a lazy deflection against valid criticism. I kid.....